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Author Topic: Rules for a gun fight  (Read 3777 times)

Offline GreyGeek

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Rules for a gun fight
« on: January 02, 2015, 03:37:12 PM »
Got this email from a relative today:

Rules for a Gun Fight.
Humorous with good points.

"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading"
In a gunfight, the most important rule is ..... HAVE A GUN!!!

If you own a gun, you will appreciate these rules...
If not, you should get one, learn how to use it and learn the rules:

RULES:

A : Guns have only two enemies: rust and politicians.

B : It's always better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

C : Cops carry guns to protect themselves, not you.

D : Never let someone or something that threatens you get inside arms length

E : Never say "I've got a gun." If you need to use deadly force, the first sound they should hear is the safety clicking off.

F : The average response time of a 911 call is 23 minutes; the response time of a .357 is 1400 feet per second.

G : The most important rule in a gunfight is:
         Always Win - there is no such thing as a fair fight.
         Always Win - cheat if necessary.
         Always Win - 2nd place doesn't count

H : Make your attacker advance through a wall of bullets ....
      You may get killed with your own gun, but he'll have to beat you to death with it because it will be empty .

I :  If you're in a gun fight:
        (a) If you're not shooting, you should be reloading.
        (b) If you're not reloading, you should be moving.
        (c) If you're not moving, you're dead.

J : In a life and death situation, do something .... it may be wrong, but do something!

K : If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid.  Nonsense!
     If you have a gun, what do you have to be paranoid about?

L : You can say 'stop' or any other word, but a large bore muzzle pointed at someone's head is pretty much a universal language; and, you won't have to press
     1 for Spanish/Mexican or
     2 for Chinese or
     3 for Arabic.

M : Never leave an enemy behind. If you have to shoot, shoot to kill.  In court, yours will be the only testimony.

N : You cannot save the planet, but you may be able to save yourself and your family.

“Happiness Is A Warm Gun.”

Offline Lorimor

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Re: Rules for a gun fight
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2015, 03:58:53 PM »
Sounds like a day at Thunder Ranch although Step "M" is a little silly. 

Always shoot to stop the threat.  Stop shooting when they stop doing whatever it was that made you start shooting them in the first place.

http://thewhitedsepulchre.blogspot.com/2009/11/words-of-wisdom-from-clint-smith-of.html

Don't shoot fast.  Shoot good.

Time is distance.  Distance is marksmanship. 
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 04:11:43 PM by Lorimor »
"It is better to avoid than to run; better to run than to de-escalate; better to de-escalate than to fight; better to fight than to die. The very essence of self-defense is a thin list of things that might get you out alive when you are already screwed." – Rory Miller

Offline Kendahl

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Re: Rules for a gun fight
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2015, 06:23:57 PM »
There is a story about an old lady who carried several guns in her car. When asked what she was afraid of, she patted one of them and replied, "Not a damn thing!"

Offline SS_N_NE

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Re: Rules for a gun fight
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2015, 08:23:27 PM »
In a gunfight, the most important rule is ..... HAVE A GUN!!!

In a gunfight, the most important rule is ..... DON'T GET SHOT!!!!

Offline Mudinyeri

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Re: Rules for a gun fight
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2015, 07:14:20 AM »
This has always been one of my favorites:


Offline GreyGeek

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Re: Rules for a gun fight
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2015, 08:32:41 AM »
This has always been one of my favorites:

Ah, the "Assume a dramatic pose" rule!  :D

Offline zofoman

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Re: Rules for a gun fight
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2015, 10:09:27 AM »
Here's 25 more...

Anonymous
1. Bring a gun.  Preferably, bring at least two guns.  Bring all of your friends who have guns.
2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice.  Ammo is cheap – life is expensive.
3. Only hits count.  The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.
4. If your shooting stance is good, you’re probably not moving fast enough or using cover correctly.
5. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movement are preferred.)
6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.
7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics.  They will only remember who lived.
8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running.
9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on “pucker factor” than the inherent accuracy of the gun.   Use a gun that works EVERY TIME.  “All skill is in vain when an Angel blows the powder from the flintlock of your musket.”
10. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.
11. Always cheat, always win.  The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
12. Have a plan.
13. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won’t work.
14. Use cover or concealment as much as possible.
15. Flank your adversary when possible.  Protect yours.
16. Don’t drop your guard.
17. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees.
18. Watch their hands. Hands kill. (In God we trust.  Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them.)
19. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.
20. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.
21. Be polite.  Be professional.  But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
22. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.
23. Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.
24. Do not attend a gun fight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with anything smaller than “4".
25. You can’t miss fast enough to win.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 10:12:45 AM by zofoman »
"What, me worry?"  ~ Alfred E. Neuman

Offline ILoveCats

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Re: Rules for a gun fight
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2015, 01:54:36 PM »

M : Never leave an enemy behind. If you have to shoot, shoot to kill.  In court, yours will be the only testimony.


Unless you're Byron Smith and record yourself saying lots of psycho things, then use it as your only defense in court.    ::)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byron_David_Smith_killings


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Offline GreyGeek

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Re: Rules for a gun fight
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2015, 03:00:21 PM »
Unless you're Byron Smith and record yourself saying lots of psycho things, then use it as your only defense in court.    ::)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byron_David_Smith_killings
Which points out the need to make your first one or two shots lethal.   

However, one must ask just WHEN a criminal is no a longer lethal threat?  Just because he/she is wounded and laying on the floor is NO guarantee that he/she won't get up and pull a weapon while your back is turned. 

Many judges and prosecutors earn high incomes and live in gated communities or other areas where their security is much higher than that afforded ordinary citizens.   Having been robbed several times in the previous few months proved that the police were inept at catching or stopping the thieves.   Over all, IMO, the results of the trial will be looked on as an impediment to self defence by citizens and a blank check by thieves and thugs.

Smith has appealed his conviction to the state supreme court.  To make matters worse, and prove that crime DOES pay, the Morrison County judge order that Smith pay $21,859.70 in restitution to the mother of Haile Kifer, the woman shot during their robbery attempt.  Apparently the mother never taught her daughter than repeatedly stealing other people's property is immoral and illegal.


Offline Mudinyeri

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Re: Rules for a gun fight
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2015, 05:50:00 PM »
Ah, the "Assume a dramatic pose" rule!  :D


No, the "Move Your A**" rule.

Offline shooter

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Re: Rules for a gun fight
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2015, 08:19:12 PM »
 I was tought to say only 3 things

  he said he was gonna kill me.
   I was afraid for my life,
   I want a lawyer

   then shut your damn mouth
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Offline OnTheFly

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Re: Rules for a gun fight
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2015, 08:40:46 PM »
I was tought to say only 3 things

  he said he was gonna kill me.
   I was afraid for my life,
   I want a lawyer

   then shut your damn mouth

From the little training I have taken, I would say...

The perp said/did this.
I attempted to deescalate and/or remove myself from the situation.
The perp did this.
I was in fear for my life.
I was here, the perp was there.
I drew my gun and defended myself/loved ones.
That person, and that person were witnesses.
That's all I have to say.

Fly
Si vis pacem, para bellum

Offline ILoveCats

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Re: Rules for a gun fight
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2015, 08:44:15 PM »
However, one must ask just WHEN a criminal is no a longer lethal threat?  Just because he/she is wounded and laying on the floor is NO guarantee that he/she won't get up and pull a weapon while your back is turned. 

Many judges and prosecutors earn high incomes and live in gated communities or other areas where their security is much higher than that afforded ordinary citizens.   Having been robbed several times in the previous few months proved that the police were inept at catching or stopping the thieves.   Over all, IMO, the results of the trial will be looked on as an impediment to self defence by citizens and a blank check by thieves and thugs.

Smith has appealed his conviction to the state supreme court.  To make matters worse, and prove that crime DOES pay, the Morrison County judge order that Smith pay $21,859.70 in restitution to the mother of Haile Kifer, the woman shot during their robbery attempt.  Apparently the mother never taught her daughter than repeatedly stealing other people's property is immoral and illegal.

Regardless of what the mother did or didn't teach her daughter, Smith committed murder at time mark 13:57 of this audio tape.  When the teen girl came tumbling down the stairs after the first shot, then he took the time to clear the jam/misfire and tell her sarcastically, "Oh, sorry about that" before resuming shooting her while saying, "You're dying, b***h!"        I had the "pleasure" of knowing Smith in the workplace, and I though I only had limited dealings with him I thought he was a total weirdo.  This event didn't surprise me too much. 
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Offline depserv

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Re: Rules for a gun fight
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2015, 07:58:32 AM »
Let me add a few rules:

Keep your enemy as ignorant as possible about your capabilities and your intentions.  Sun Tzu said: know your enemy and know yourself, and in many battles you will never be defeated.  It follows that the less your enemy knows about you the more likely he is to be defeated, which is essential to your survival.  This obviously does not apply to cases where displaying your weapon can keep a fight from taking place.  But when a fight can't be avoided, your enemy should see a muzzle flash as soon as he sees your gun (and preferably he doesn't see either because you have outmaneuvered him).  Also, carry concealed.  Even if a situation warrants open carry, as in the aftermath of a huge disaster where long guns might be carried, I would still carry a hidden pistol.

Bad guys are like cockroaches in your house and rabbits in your garden: always assume that where there is one, there might be more just outside of your awareness.  Train to break tunnel vision when you go to the range, and condition yourself to be and remain aware of everything around you if you are forced into a fight.

It's better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6 as the saying goes, but it's even better be tired from running away, because being tried by 12 will cost you a lot of money, and the 12 might end up being indoctrinated nitwits.

Shoot to kill.  If you don't have a reason to use lethal force you don't have a reason to shoot at a person.  This even applies to warning shots: don't take Joe Biden's advice because it will get you in trouble, and if seeing a gun doesn't stop a person hearing one probably won't either.

Study and practice basic hand to hand combat, because that precedes gunfights sometimes.  Things like palm heel strikes and tripping and stomping on a person's knee aren't that hard to learn.

Make sure your pistol is carried securely and is concealed, because if it falls out of your holster (or belt or whatever) or your enemy gets a hold of it because you were carrying it conspicuously on your hip, it means that all the time you were carrying your gun you were carrying it for your enemy to use against you, which means that not only do you die, but you die as a fool.

If the first rule of a gunfight is to have a gun, the second rule should be to have a gun that works.  The gun you carry will get lint and dust in it and should be cleaned every so often even if you don't shoot it.
   
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Offline Lorimor

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Re: Rules for a gun fight
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2015, 06:33:33 AM »
By all means, draw and shoot only when necessary.  And when necessary, make those shots count by putting them where they count.  The threat must be stopped as quickly as possible.  Shoot as much as necessary to stop the threat and no more.   It may be one shot.  It may be 12 shots.  It may be 20 shots. 

I am not shooting to kill.  I am shooting to stop the threat.  I am shooting in defense of innocent life. 
"It is better to avoid than to run; better to run than to de-escalate; better to de-escalate than to fight; better to fight than to die. The very essence of self-defense is a thin list of things that might get you out alive when you are already screwed." – Rory Miller

Offline Dan W

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Re: Rules for a gun fight
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2015, 08:42:44 PM »
I am not shooting to kill.  I am shooting to stop the threat.  I am shooting in defense of innocent life. 

Pretty much my exact thoughts
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Offline depserv

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Re: Rules for a gun fight
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2015, 08:51:13 AM »
Yes of course, shoot to stop the threat, and I guess if the person you shoot happens to die it's a totally unrelated and unfortunate coincidence.  I think this says something about our so-called justice system.

So if shooting a person in the leg might stop the threat, is that what's recommended?

Or maybe a warning shot will stop the threat, because it shows that you're really really serious about pulling the trigger.  Kind of like drawing a red line.  So should warning shots be encouraged?
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Offline gsd

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Re: Rules for a gun fight
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2015, 10:12:16 AM »
I have one rule for a gunfight.

Don't lose.
It is highly likely the above post may offend you. I'm fine with that.

Offline JTH

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Re: Rules for a gun fight
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2015, 11:07:26 AM »
Yes of course, shoot to stop the threat, and I guess if the person you shoot happens to die it's a totally unrelated and unfortunate coincidence.  I think this says something about our so-called justice system.

Since those aren't true statements (it obviously isn't a totally unrelated and unfortunate coincidence) I don't really think it says anything about our justice system.

Note:  this doesn't mean I'm happy with our current justice system.

There is, however, a significant difference between acting to stop an attacker, and deliberately choosing to kill your attacker.  In the first case, one can act in the most effective way possible to stop the attacker as fast as possible--and the attacker may die.  But we don't really care, as long as they are stopped.  If one shot to the chest makes them stop (and they don't die), that's perfectly fine.  If it takes 5 shots, that's also perfectly fine, even if they die.

We don't care.  The point is to stop them.

If, on the other hand, the point is to kill them, then you ARE going to run into trouble.  Because "stopping them" and "killing them" are not the same thing.  Yes, killing them will stop them.  But if they have already stopped, then killing them after that is something else entirely.

Plus the fact that I can kill someone and not have them know it for awhile---example, by stabbing them in the femoral artery.  They are going to die from that most likely, unless there is an ambulance right nearby.  However, they aren't going to die RIGHT NOW, which means they aren't stopped, and are still likely to be a threat. I've already killed them, they just aren't done yet.  And it hasn't stopped them, either, so it isn't going to help me much.

I don't shoot to kill, because I don't care if my attacker dies or not.  I care if they STOP, and I want them to STOP as soon as possible.

Quote
So if shooting a person in the leg might stop the threat, is that what's recommended?

Obviously not.  After all, we want to have a high percentage chance of stopping the threat immediately.  Leg shots are 1) not high percentage, and 2) not a high chance of immediate stop.

Quote
Or maybe a warning shot will stop the threat, because it shows that you're really really serious about pulling the trigger.  Kind of like drawing a red line.  So should warning shots be encouraged?

For the same reason, obviously not.

We act because we want a high percentage chance of an immediate stop, and we continue until the threat is stopped.  Not only is that the best way to keep yourself safe, it is also legally defensible in court.

If your opinion is different, that is of course your opinion.  However, that doesn't mean that 1) it makes for the best chances for an immediate stop, and 2) that it will be legally defensible in court.
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Offline depserv

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Re: Rules for a gun fight
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2015, 12:25:02 PM »
Since those aren't true statements (it obviously isn't a totally unrelated and unfortunate coincidence) I don't really think it says anything about our justice system.

Note:  this doesn't mean I'm happy with our current justice system.

There is, however, a significant difference between acting to stop an attacker, and deliberately choosing to kill your attacker.  In the first case, one can act in the most effective way possible to stop the attacker as fast as possible--and the attacker may die.  But we don't really care, as long as they are stopped.  If one shot to the chest makes them stop (and they don't die), that's perfectly fine.  If it takes 5 shots, that's also perfectly fine, even if they die.

We don't care.  The point is to stop them.

If, on the other hand, the point is to kill them, then you ARE going to run into trouble.  Because "stopping them" and "killing them" are not the same thing.  Yes, killing them will stop them.  But if they have already stopped, then killing them after that is something else entirely.

Plus the fact that I can kill someone and not have them know it for awhile---example, by stabbing them in the femoral artery.  They are going to die from that most likely, unless there is an ambulance right nearby.  However, they aren't going to die RIGHT NOW, which means they aren't stopped, and are still likely to be a threat. I've already killed them, they just aren't done yet.  And it hasn't stopped them, either, so it isn't going to help me much.

I don't shoot to kill, because I don't care if my attacker dies or not.  I care if they STOP, and I want them to STOP as soon as possible.


I agree with all this, except that you stop them by putting a bullet (or knife or whatever) into a vital organ like the heart or brain, or hit him with multiple bullets, because killing the person is the most likely and immediate way to stop him.  If being wounded stops him, then he is no longer a threat.  Saying that you are shooting to stop a threat instead of shooting to kill sounds like doublespeak.  Even though your purpose is to stop the threat, you stop it by using what is called lethal force (maybe we should call it stopping force).  The phrase kill or be killed has been used for a long time, and is not commonly used now because of our politically correct culture. 
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