< Back to the Main Site

Author Topic: Fundamental Gun Handling Videos, Part II: The Grip  (Read 10159 times)

Offline JTH

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 2300
  • Shooter
    • Precision Response Training
Fundamental Gun Handling Videos, Part II: The Grip
« on: January 20, 2015, 09:46:11 AM »
The second video in the Precision Response Training series about Fundamental Gun Handling skills is up, this time talking about gripping the gun.  Not talking about stance or trigger control yet, just how to hold the gun in the first place to mitigate recoil and to limit recoil direction.

https://precisionresponse.wordpress.com/2015/01/19/fundamental-gun-handling-videos-part-ii-the-grip/

As the article says, I originally meant for it to be a short video---but as I talked I kept getting reminded of all the bad grips I've seen, and how many questions (and excuses) I've heard over time about grip, and I wanted to make sure I addressed at least some of those.  SO........it ended up a bit longer than I originally meant. 

Whoops.

Well, hopefully it'll be interesting enough so that people watch the whole thing.  :)


Currently, other topics I plan on discussing are (not necessarily in this order):
-Stance
-Trigger control
-Basic safe gun handling
-Sights and vision
...and no, I'm not covering combat rolls.  (Though I may do one about making sure your fundamentals are solid before attempting "advanced" techniques.)

If anyone thinks of any other topics of interest, let me know!
Precision Response Training
http://precisionresponsetraining.com

Offline HuskerXDM

  • 2014 NFOA Firearms Rights Champion
  • Powder Benefactor
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Location: Lincoln, NE
  • Posts: 948
Re: Fundamental Gun Handling Videos, Part II: The Grip
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2015, 07:23:08 PM »
Keep 'em coming!  I'm constantly trying to get CHP participants to change to a better grip... I see the thumbs lock down all the time.  Easily the most common grip I see...
The master has failed more than the beginner has even tried.

Offline DenmanShooter

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Mar 2014
  • Location: Denman, Nebraska
  • Posts: 357
  • Fear No Evil
    • SolidRed
Re: Fundamental Gun Handling Videos, Part II: The Grip
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2015, 07:57:41 PM »
That was excellent.  Thank you!
The golf course is a willful and deliberate misuse of a perfectly good rifle range!      Jeff  Cooper

Offline OnTheFly

  • Steel Benefactor
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2009
  • Location: Lincoln, NE
  • Posts: 2617
  • NFOA member #364
Re: Fundamental Gun Handling Videos, Part II: The Grip
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2015, 08:06:07 PM »
Put Basic Safe Gun Handling on the top of the list.  I'm sure there would be items I had not considered before, but I know a lot of people who disregard even the fundamentals.

Fly
Si vis pacem, para bellum

Offline JTH

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 2300
  • Shooter
    • Precision Response Training
Re: Fundamental Gun Handling Videos, Part II: The Grip
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2015, 09:55:26 AM »
Put Basic Safe Gun Handling on the top of the list.  I'm sure there would be items I had not considered before, but I know a lot of people who disregard even the fundamentals.

I was going to talk stance next, but I think that based on what I've been reading and seeing in various places lately, I agree. 

It interests me how many "experienced" gun owners still don't know how to competently handle handguns.  Between holstering using both hands, sweeping themselves while loading/unloading/reloading/remedial actions, and having very little muzzle awareness and control, we see a LOT of occasions where people demonstrate all too little idea of simple basic safe gun handling.
Precision Response Training
http://precisionresponsetraining.com

Offline farmerbob

  • Steel Benefactor
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Location: S.W. Nebraska
  • Posts: 610
Re: Fundamental Gun Handling Videos, Part II: The Grip
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2015, 12:10:20 PM »
Looking forward to next video, Thank You!
"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"-- George Washington

Offline abbafandr

  • Powder Benefactor
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2012
  • Location: Omaha
  • Posts: 891
Re: Fundamental Gun Handling Videos, Part II: The Grip
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2015, 08:10:21 PM »
I have some difficulty with getting the support hand onto the handle when I use something small, like my PF9.  I don't notice this with the G17 or larger guns.

Offline Mali

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 1718
  • My life, my rights.
Re: Fundamental Gun Handling Videos, Part II: The Grip
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2015, 11:00:28 AM »
I have some difficulty with getting the support hand onto the handle when I use something small, like my PF9.  I don't notice this with the G17 or larger guns.
I would agree.  The PT709 is small and sometimes harder to get the off hand placed squarly on the grip.  But, I appreciate your video and will take a closer look at my grip and how it can be improved.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same. - Ronald Reagan

Offline JTH

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 2300
  • Shooter
    • Precision Response Training
Re: Fundamental Gun Handling Videos, Part II: The Grip
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2015, 12:59:23 PM »
I would agree.  The PT709 is small and sometimes harder to get the off hand placed squarly on the grip.  But, I appreciate your video and will take a closer look at my grip and how it can be improved.

Like I said, it is also a function of hand size and gun size---and with really tiny guns, there just isn't much area to use.  As such, most of the time (with tiny guns) the secondary hand just can't be placed as high or as forward without either 1) being scarily close to the muzzle, or 2) interfering with the action of the slide.

The normal solution to this is not rotating the hand quite so far forward--you don't get as much control forward, and the amount of second-hand actually contacting the grip isn't as much (again, with a tiny grip the primary hand will cover more) but it will still work better than a teacup or thumbs locked-down grip.

I'll note:  generally the gun has to be pretty small for this to be an issue.  I can shoot a PF-9 normally with no problem (yes, it took some practice to get the hand placement on the PF-9, but it works, and similarly a G26 and a j-frame revolver), so for me (and I have normal-sized hands) it takes something like a Beretta Tomcat or LCP or something for it to be an issue. 

And I don't carry ones that small, because I can carry something larger which makes it much easier to shoot effectively.  :)

It is certainly true that some of the mini-pistols out there come with their own unique issues.
Precision Response Training
http://precisionresponsetraining.com

Offline JTH

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 2300
  • Shooter
    • Precision Response Training
Re: Fundamental Gun Handling Videos, Part II: The Grip
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2015, 10:20:45 AM »
Well, that was kinda cool--just read a comment from a USPSA A-class shooter:

"I feel like I just spent eight and a half minutes learning something I wish I had known ten years ago. "
Precision Response Training
http://precisionresponsetraining.com

Offline OnTheFly

  • Steel Benefactor
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2009
  • Location: Lincoln, NE
  • Posts: 2617
  • NFOA member #364
Re: Fundamental Gun Handling Videos, Part II: The Grip
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2015, 01:44:59 AM »
Well, that was kinda cool--just read a comment from a USPSA A-class shooter:

"I feel like I just spent eight and a half minutes learning something I wish I had known ten years ago. "


Was he watching one of those videos on how to inflate a tubeless tire?

Fly
Si vis pacem, para bellum

Offline JTH

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 2300
  • Shooter
    • Precision Response Training
Re: Fundamental Gun Handling Videos, Part II: The Grip
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2015, 10:34:51 AM »
Was he watching one of those videos on how to inflate a tubeless tire?

[sigh]

Precision Response Training
http://precisionresponsetraining.com

Offline Lmbass14

  • Powder Benefactor
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 870
  • Red Horse - Semper Ducimus
Re: Fundamental Gun Handling Videos, Part II: The Grip
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2015, 11:40:15 AM »
Thank you for sharing your knowledge kind sir.  Anxious for the next video.

Offline bkoenig

  • Gun Show Volunteer
  • Powder Benefactor
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2009
  • Location: Lincoln, NE
  • Posts: 3677
  • Aspiring cranky old gun nut
Re: Fundamental Gun Handling Videos, Part II: The Grip
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2015, 02:51:57 PM »
It took me a long time to break myself of the thumbs locked down grip.  When I first bought a handgun it's what I used because I had no instruction and it felt "natural", but after noticing that 99% of the good action shooters I was watching used grips like in this video I forced myself to switch and it made a big difference in how well I could control recoil.

Offline JTH

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 2300
  • Shooter
    • Precision Response Training
Re: Fundamental Gun Handling Videos, Part II: The Grip
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2015, 05:35:11 PM »
It took me a long time to break myself of the thumbs locked down grip.  When I first bought a handgun it's what I used because I had no instruction and it felt "natural", but after noticing that 99% of the good action shooters I was watching used grips like in this video I forced myself to switch and it made a big difference in how well I could control recoil.

It really does make a difference in the recoil, doesn't it?  Less jump upward, but even more, less rotational torque during the recoil.  Makes it a LOT easier to drop the sights back down onto the target.

The "thumbs-locked-down" grip is probably the most common bad grip I see among people who are convinced they already know how to shoot.   ::)
Precision Response Training
http://precisionresponsetraining.com

Offline JTH

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 2300
  • Shooter
    • Precision Response Training
Re: Fundamental Gun Handling Videos, Part II: The Grip
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2015, 02:42:19 PM »
Question for folks--was this video too long?  In the future, should I keep the time under 5 minutes and just hit the basics? 

Like I said, I kept thinking of the various "explanations" and excuses I've heard over time about grips and I wanted to address those, but I wondered if most people wouldn't really want to sit through the whole thing.

In the future, should I just stick to the basics and keep it under 5 minutes?  Or is a little longer all right IF there is a specific reason or topic to be addressed?  (Not just random rambling?)
Precision Response Training
http://precisionresponsetraining.com

Offline OnTheFly

  • Steel Benefactor
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2009
  • Location: Lincoln, NE
  • Posts: 2617
  • NFOA member #364
Re: Fundamental Gun Handling Videos, Part II: The Grip
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2015, 02:57:06 PM »
Question for folks--was this video too long?  In the future, should I keep the time under 5 minutes and just hit the basics? 

Like I said, I kept thinking of the various "explanations" and excuses I've heard over time about grips and I wanted to address those, but I wondered if most people wouldn't really want to sit through the whole thing.

In the future, should I just stick to the basics and keep it under 5 minutes?  Or is a little longer all right IF there is a specific reason or topic to be addressed?  (Not just random rambling?)

I thought it was fine.  I didn't even come close to nodding off in the middle.  Not like when I'm flying.  I think countering people's (mis)beliefs is a good idea. 

Fly
Si vis pacem, para bellum

Offline farmerbob

  • Steel Benefactor
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Location: S.W. Nebraska
  • Posts: 610
Re: Fundamental Gun Handling Videos, Part II: The Grip
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2015, 05:19:05 PM »
Question for folks--was this video too long?  In the future, should I keep the time under 5 minutes and just hit the basics? 

Like I said, I kept thinking of the various "explanations" and excuses I've heard over time about grips and I wanted to address those, but I wondered if most people wouldn't really want to sit through the whole thing.

In the future, should I just stick to the basics and keep it under 5 minutes?  Or is a little longer all right IF there is a specific reason or topic to be addressed?  (Not just random rambling?)


I believe you did an excellent job presenting the info, not too long as far as I'm concerned.( the more info the better)
"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"-- George Washington

Offline Lmbass14

  • Powder Benefactor
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 870
  • Red Horse - Semper Ducimus
Re: Fundamental Gun Handling Videos, Part II: The Grip
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2015, 05:26:01 PM »

I believe you did an excellent job presenting the info, not too long as far as I'm concerned.( the more info the better)

+1

About the right length in my opinion.  No rambling on, just the meat and 'taters.

Offline Lmbass14

  • Powder Benefactor
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 870
  • Red Horse - Semper Ducimus
Re: Fundamental Gun Handling Videos, Part II: The Grip
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2015, 04:21:56 PM »
Ran across this video and the first thing I thought of was jthhapkido.  Looks like James Bond needs a refresher course.

http://www.guns.com/2015/03/23/opinion-what-is-the-best-pistol-grip/