KS - Funny thing on the way to Constitutional Carry

[TwoSwords]

If you have been following news to the south, Kansas is a Governor signature away from Kansas Residents being able to carry concealed without a permit.

I was not surprised by the anti's arguments.  They were the same tired ones,  "You need training to drive a Car!"  "It will be the Wild West." (When Preemptive Open Carry is already State Law)  "Well Regulated"

No it was the CONCEALED CARRY INSTRUCTORS who came out against it that surprised me the most.

We are for 2nd Amendment freedoms, but not TOO much 2nd Amendment freedoms.   When you insert Money into the equation, thoughts on things change.

The permit saves you from the 1000 ft school zone issue, that should be enough to sell it all by itself.  But come out against it really?

I applaud the NE FOA efforts to move legislation in steps as Kansas did.    Kansas is proof, baby steps work and a huge (R) majority doesn't hurt.

Just giving  you a heads up what will happen if NE gets to this point.   May as well here from all the instructors that are against Permit-less carry now.
I am not one of them.


http://www.neccw.com/docs/KS_vs_NE.pdf

[AAllen]

TwoSwords, lots of people are trying to replicate Arizona version of getting constitutional carry.  There they formed an organization that encouraged voluntary firearm education, and advertised where such education is available as well as shooting ranges etc. receiving some financial support from those instructors and ranges.  Much of that model is what we are following here.

[NE Bull]

Trust me Two Swords, I am watching everything in KS carefully.  First- because it's 'home'.
Secondly, I have built a relationship with Patricia, the Pres. of the KSRA to pick her brain.

Here is a quote from an article she forwarded this morning that I think many of our members could learn from ('cause Lord knows they won't listen to me)

“You’ll note,” Owens wrote earlier today, “that both Kansas and West Virginia were able to get as far as they have without obnoxious and intentionally provocative open carry demonstrations near schools, in the legislature, or in private businesses that unnecessarily added additional hurdles and gave gun control groups ammunition to fight against us. Tactics matter.”
“In both of these states,” he said, “supporters worked diligently and with resolve, while making sure not to do anything to generate or intensify opposition.”
That is an absolutely true statement and I’m darn proud of it. And I agree with this article. Some of the states where they’re conducting in your face activism should take a lesson from us.
http://www.examiner.com/…/kansas-legislature-passes-constit…

[depserv]

I've heard of a case awhile back where dealers put capitalism above patriotism, so it isn't any surprise that some instructors might do the same thing.  No thing or person is perfect.  I don't know if he really did say it, but I've seen Lenin given credit for this statement: When the last free man is hung it will be a capitalist who sells the rope.

[grumpy old man]

Not that I am a smart guy but I always figured one reason that would never pass in Nebraska is because CCW instructors would oppose it as it affects their bottom line.  If you really want to know what people believe tell them it will have an impact on them financially and their sex life and see if they are still for it.  If they are then they are true believers in the cause.

[NE Bull]

I'll brag about one of our own- He makes a good living lately writing gun trusts for folks wanting to obtain NFA items-meanwhile, he also helped draft language for a bill that would make NFA paperwork in NE a SHALL SIGN (as opposed to may sign) by CLEO.  Has assisted the introducing senator in preparing, AND testified on behalf of the NFOA in Support of the bill. That's Heroic right there! 

[Chris Z]

You won't see this CHP Instructor opposing efforts for Constitutional Carry.

And if the training requirement goes away, about 99% of Instructors will be out of business. Life goes on, I'd rather have Constitutional Carry in Nebraska.

[farmerbob]

From what I've heard from states that have constitutional carry, more people are seeking out firearms training. ( can't remember the source but I think it was on AAR or Gun Talk)

What I meant to say is there is a bigger demand for training in states that have become constitutional carry states.

I believe most people would get their CHP, without it you could only carry in 5 or 6 states.

[JTH]

Not that I am a smart guy but I always figured one reason that would never pass in Nebraska is because CCW instructors would oppose it as it affects their bottom line.

It would surprise me greatly if many CCW instructors at ALL had any issue with constitutional carry here. 

From a purely monetary perspective, very few CCW instructors make much money from their classes----and even fewer teach it for monetary purposes.  Some do, sure---but it would still surprise me if CCW instructors in Nebraska spoke against constitutional carry here.

I'd be perfectly happy to stop teaching CCW classes.  The only reason I got certified in the first place (after several years of telling people to go to Zeeb's classes) was that people couldn't always MAKE it to Zeeb's classes, and they kept asking.  I still send them to Chris if I don't have one scheduled anytime soon.

If everyone in Nebraska could actually exercise their right to carry effective tools for self-defense without having to make it obvious (so: concealed) without having to jump through hoops to get "permission" to do so, I'd think of that as a good thing.  Most CCW instructors that I've talked to would agree.

[NE Bull]

jthhapkido, Chris Z.  Ya'll need to join the NRA Certified Instructors page on Facebook! 
Those guys complain about the next guy under cutting their costs, and states doing away with permits, etc. 
They almost peed themselves when Gary told of his two for one specials/ Mothers'/Fathers' day specials, free basic training for new gun owners and when I said, since I got my credentials thru the Boy Scouts, I literally volunteer my time, and thus far I haven't charged anyone for any of the basic training (other than costs of range time/ ammo.
IF have to be in it for the safety and the good of the Firearm Community and LIBERTY. 

[GreyGeek]

Part of the population already practices Constitutional Carry - thugs, gang bangers, dope dealers, cartel members, etc.   Restoring NE law to be compliant with the letter and spirit of the 2nd Amendment is the only practical and common sense thing to do.  Then such low life would know for sure that ther attempts to commit violent crimes would be met with overwhelming resistance.

LEOs have nothing to fear because they'd know that everyone they meet could/would be packing and would behave appropriately, as would the law-abiding citizens.  They'd also know that in any armed confrontation they might encounter there could be armed citizens nearby ready to assist.

Requiring high school kids to take firearm safety and handling courses along with Constitional Carry would be merely returning to the way things were during my youth.

[ghknives]

I'm a CHP instructor & am all for Constitutional Carry. What is taught in the classes is important but shouldn't be mandatory.

[NE Bull]

Many states (started in Arizona) that has went to a Constitutional Carry system have started groups "Train Me ______"  Resources for all the training available in the state.  Satisfied the instructors and lawmakers.
Kansas's  : https://www.facebook.com/www.trainmeks.org?fref=ts

IT would be sweet to get on started in Nebraska BEFORE we take on the fight.  Anyone feel like taking that project on?

[depserv]

To me it isn't so much having a training requirement that's objectionable as it is having to get a license to exercise a Constitutional right.  Having to pay for training, get fingerprinted, and then having to pay for the license itself make it worse, but the fundamental problem is that a license is necessary.  Imagine having to get a license to exercise our first Amendment rights.  Or any of our rights for that matter.  Imagine if when police arrest people instead of reading the so-called Miranda rights police asked suspects if they had a license to exercise their 4th and 5th Amendment rights.  (Actually that almost seems tempting.)

I agree completely with Grey Geek that gun safety should be taught in public schools.  It's insane not to teach it.  Something like the Eddie Eagle program should be taught early on, and then more in the higher grades.

If basic laws that we all have to follow are not taught in schools they should be.  Anyone with a diploma should have been taught when use of deadly force is legally justified, among other things.  I'd think this should be at least as important as things like feminist history. 

I encourage everyone who has a gun to take at least one class (if not more) from a qualified instructor.  I got an NRA instructor certification just because I teach friends informally on occasion and I wanted to make sure I was qualified to do it (I haven't used it yet to commit the thoughtcrime of capitalism).  My objection is in citizens being forced to take classes in order to exercise a right.

[NE Bull]

I agree completely with Grey Geek that gun safety should be taught in public schools.  It's insane not to teach it.  Something like the Eddie Eagle program should be taught early on, and then more in the higher grades.

Anyone interested in doing some research on this subject, contact me.

[JTH]

jthhapkido, Chris Z.  Ya'll need to join the NRA Certified Instructors page on Facebook! 
Those guys complain about the next guy under cutting their costs, and states doing away with permits, etc. 

Wow.

I really don't think joining that would be a good idea, because I'm pretty sure my reaction would be NOT positive. 

[mott555]

To me it isn't so much having a training requirement that's objectionable as it is having to get a license to exercise a Constitutional right.  Having to pay for training, get fingerprinted, and then having to pay for the license itself make it worse, but the fundamental problem is that a license is necessary.  Imagine having to get a license to exercise our first Amendment rights.  Or any of our rights for that matter.  Imagine if when police arrest people instead of reading the so-called Miranda rights police asked suspects if they had a license to exercise their 4th and 5th Amendment rights.  (Actually that almost seems tempting.)

This sounds like excellent blog material, if I were a blogger. Free speech permits and training, needing government permits to practice your religion, requiring a permit to allow you to refuse quartering of soldiers, permits required to keep police from searching you without a warrant, needing a permit if you want a grand jury, needing to purchase a permit to guarantee a speedy trial, spending money on a permit to make sure you can't be subjected to cruel and unusual punishment.

I think there's a very compelling argument there if someone were to flesh it out. We don't need permits for the other 9 rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights, so why do people think it's reasonable to require permits and training for the Second?