"I bought a gun, what holster should I get?"

[JTH]

And the Galco holster for the High-Point is actually better than the gun in my opinion..

+1

Their Matrix holsters are good quality.  I've got a couple of Matrix belts that I use for dress belts when I'm carrying.  Look just like a high-quality leather dress belt with a good buckle--and are solid gun belts.  Great stuff.

I bought a Fobus once...it was horrible.  I needed a holster on short notice and it was all I could find at the time that would fit my gun.  You could mock up something out of tin foil and it would almost be sturdier. 

There's always this video:



I do always find that one funny, because the description says "this is why you don't use a kydex paddle holster"---and yet, Fobus (in that series, at least) didn't use Kydex, it was simply basic plastic (and still is), and the fact that it is a paddle holster has nothing to do with it.  They could have done the same thing with a Fobus belt-mounted holster.

Description should be:  "This is why you don't want to use a Fobus standard holster."  (I don't know if their Evolution series has moved up to using kydex yet, or is more sturdy.  The standard holsters are still made with JUST this level of durability, though.)

Lots of great choices out there.  Truly, we are living in the golden age of holsters.

Golden age? 

It is true that you can get pretty much any type of holster you could ever want, anymore.  The tough part is separating the people who make quality holsters in kydex from the people who have slabs of kydex and a heat gun, and call themselves holster-makers.  (Same with leather holsters.)

There are certainly a bunch of very-well-made holsters out there for just about everything, even for left-handed people.  (Which I sincerely appreciate!)

[tstuart34]

Lots of people get a Fobus for their first holster, because they are cheap, most gun stores stock them, and they look (while in the package) just as good as any other holster.

It isn't like most gun stores let us try the gun in the holster, so people can't actually see what the retention, or the belt stability, or the trigger guard cover is like.  (And most people, while wearing the holster, can't see what the trigger guard cover is like so they don't ever notice unless someone points out that their holster isn't going to be legal at a USPSA match.)

Nylon sack holsters are normally pretty scary for ROs, SOs, and instructors of classes.

I keep thinking of trying my hand with some kydex just for fun---then I realize that I don't have enough time for all the hobbies I currently have.    Pretty cool that you roll your own!

Its a fun hobby. But it's a bit spends to get into if you don't have the tools. A simple press will cost around 50 bucks to make. The most expensive item to buy would be a belt sander.

Ever want to try some out let me know.

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[Kendahl]

There's always this video:

Link doesn't work. You have to watch it on YouTube. Look for "Why you don't use a kydex paddle holster".

[JTH]

Link doesn't work. You have to watch it on YouTube. Look for "Why you don't use a kydex paddle holster".

Or just click on the YouTube logo on the player, and it'll take you to the video. 

[DenmanShooter]

In the picture below, I have circled the tension adjustment screw on the FOBUS.  In that picture, the reason the Shield is not going all the way into the holster is that the tension has been adjusted so tight the trigger guard cannot be forced all the way into the holster.  It is also possible that is the wrong holster.  Never the less, that is the adjustment screw.

[abbafandr]

I have used Fobus holsters on 2 guns.  One worked like it should.  The other definitely required considerable effort to draw the gun.
I remember attending a class on movements and fellow participants had magazines and even handguns falling on the ground from the pouches and holster.  Not certain what brands of equipment involved there.

When I get my G34 I will be acquiring a new holster for it.  I'm kinda liking the Blade-Tech stuff I've seen.  It will be used for USPSA only so no extraordinary retention level will be required.

[JTH]

In the picture below, I have circled the tension adjustment screw on the FOBUS.  In that picture, the reason the Shield is not going all the way into the holster is that the tension has been adjusted so tight the trigger guard cannot be forced all the way into the holster.  It is also possible that is the wrong holster.  Never the less, that is the adjustment screw.

Actually, that picture is from this holster review:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/12/ralph/holster-review-fobus-roto-paddle-holster-galco-tuck-n-go-blackhawk-cqc-uncle-mike%E2%80%99s-3-pocket-holster/

...in which he says: "The adjustable retention was a snap and the holster was so supremely comfortable, I hardly knew that I was carrying."

So I'm not sure where you got your comment of "In that picture, the reason the Shield is not going all the way into the holster is that the tension has been adjusted so tight the trigger guard cannot be forced all the way into the holster.  It is also possible that is the wrong holster."  ...since the picture itself is from a holster review and he talks about tension adjustments.  (And that's a compact M&P, not a Shield.)  One assumes that for his holster review, he got the right holster, and since he talked about tension adjustments, he managed to adjust the tension.

I do believe that I said that one line of Fobus holsters (the Evolution series) has an adjustment screw.  At the same time, I noted that their line of standard holsters does not, and even provided pictures of such.  Here's the second picture I gave in my post where the holster doesn't have any adjustment ability:



(Among other things, their standard line of holsters existed long before they came out with their Evolution line, and they still sell their standard holsters.)

So---yes, your picture is of a Fobus with an adjustment screw.  And adjusting it is easy.

...none of which changes the fact that 1) many Fobus holsters cannot be adjusted for tension, and 2) even a cursory image search on Fobus holsters shows that the vast majority of them do not cover the trigger guard.  (Even the ones with adjustable tension.)

Another way of looking at it:  The promotional graphics created by Fobus to market their holsters often don't have their holsters covering the trigger guard.  I'm thinking that they probably know how to adjust the tension, so that probably isn't the issue.

Example:
http://www.fobusholster.com/products/RUGER_SR9_PADDLE_HOLSTER-3356-86.html

Picture: 



Another example:
http://www.fobusholster.com/products/38_MODELS_22_MODEL_non_target_pathfinder_32_MODEL_PADDLE_HOLSTER-6012-86.html

Picture:


One more:
http://www.fobusholster.com/products/CZ_P_01_40P_PADDLE_HOLSTER-3431-86.html

Picture (it amuses me that for a CZ holster, they show a picture of a Ruger---and we can see that MUCH of the trigger guard isn't covered):


Here's one of the Evolution holster from the Fobus page:
http://www.fobusholster.com/products/TAURUS_92_99_EVOLUTION_PADDLE_HOLSTER-2781-116.html

Picture:


How about another one?
http://www.fobusholster.com/products/FITS_GLOCK_42_EVOLUTION_PADDLE_HOLSTER-9087-116.html

Picture:


Here's the LCP holster:
http://www.fobusholster.com/products/RUGER_LCP_EVOLUTION_PADDLE_HOLSTER-4832-116.html



I think---that probably Fobus knows how to adjust the tension on the holsters that they make that actually have an adjustable tension. And they probably can pick the right holster for the gun.

Given that, if even their PROMOTIONAL PICTURES don't cover the trigger guard, I'm thinking we can safely assume that their holsters often won't cover the trigger guard.


Edited to fix a couple of the pictures and add one word to a sentence.

[JTH]

I remember attending a class on movements and fellow participants had magazines and even handguns falling on the ground from the pouches and holster.  Not certain what brands of equipment involved there.

All sorts of different ones. 

Pretty much all of those were competition holsters for Production division without locking mechanisms, in which the assumption was that on any stage the competitor would draw first so the retention needed was minimal.  The pouches were deep so the gun wouldn't fall out under normal movement if it was bumped or anything, but hard running (and the up-and-down movement due to that) would be enough to bounce the gun out.   As such, running without your hand on the gun can be a problem if you leave the gun in the holster.  For competition holsters, that makes sense.  (Duty or carry holsters, different situation.)

The mag pouches, though---people needed to crank up the tension on their pouches.  THOSE need to hold the mags through serious movement, and if they couldn't it wasn't good.

In my opinion, there is this nice happy medium point for carry holsters in between the "falling out while walking" light tension and the "need a crane to get it out" heavy tension.  One of the reasons I like Kydex holsters over leather (and this is just a personal preference) is that for carry holsters I can set the tension so there is a distinct "pop" to draw the gun--but it doesn't drag on the gun through the whole draw, and a quick lift of the gun pops it out of the retention without further resistance, so you can have the same draw as any other time (such as when using a competition rig) while keeping good retention for your carry holster.  Doing that with leather generally means having sliding resistance through the entire coming-out-of-the-holster part, and that difference (if the retention is solid) makes for a very different-feeling draw.

Again, that's just a personal preference.

When I get my G34 I will be acquiring a new holster for it.  I'm kinda liking the Blade-Tech stuff I've seen.  It will be used for USPSA only so no extraordinary retention level will be required.

I've seen a couple of other types of pouches that I also like for USPSA Production division, but I have to admit, I really like the Blade-Tech ones.  Their DOH holster is a good solid one to get, though I will say that I was pretty shocked at what a solid/repeatable/non-moving difference the BOSS hanger made to the holster setup.

http://www.benstoegerproshop.com/BSPS-BOSS-Dropped-Offset-DOH-Holster-p/bsps-holster.htm

Comes with a Blade-Tech pouch and the BOSS hanger.  If you already have a Blade-Tech pouch, you can simply buy the hanger and switch it over.  (If you like Comp-Tac pouches, they can come with those instead.)

[ILoveCats]

Are there a lot of accidental discharges because a molded plastic holster didn't cover the back 1/4" of the guard? I thought the main thing would be that it covered the trigger itself.  Looking at the pictures you posted, the worst "offender" is the LCP one (although that's a Kel-Tec P-3AT in there.)

My LCP fits the same way, but you'd be really, really hard pressed to get anything somehow down in there and hooked over the trigger. I'd have to work at it for a while to  to get a loop of paracord in there and hooked around the trigger.  If I wore the LCP Fobus holster, and a pullover with a paracord tie at the bottom, I reckon I'd have to wear that combo every day for a few hundred years before the cord ever got itself somehow worked down in there.

I'd think that an LCP or Smith 642 in a pocket holster and tight jeans pockets would be at much higher risk to somehow have something accidentally get in front of the trigger, then pressing on it when you sit down. And everyone tells me that risk is infinitesimally small and nothing to worry about.

[DenmanShooter]

This has grown to a thread about fobus rather than the original intention.

Also jth - your original post was not about competition, it was about gaining experience and practice at the range.

I would defer to your extensive knowledge and experience when it comes to competitive ventures, but really, for range and practice you don't need all that fancy gear. 

You don't need mag holsters.  You don't even need passive retention. 

Just someplace to stick it. 

[JTH]

Also jth - your original post was not about competition, it was about gaining experience and practice at the range.

I would defer to your extensive knowledge and experience when it comes to competitive ventures, but really, for range and practice you don't need all that fancy gear. 

You don't need mag holsters.  You don't even need passive retention. 

Just someplace to stick it. 

We obviously think very differently about fundamental firearms skills.  I consider having a competent (and safe) draw and reload as important fundamental skills.

How do you practice a reload without a mag pouch?  I mean, true, some people carry their extra magazine in a pocket, but I normally assume that means they've never actually tried to reload under pressure or they expect to reload after something is over.

I don't consider a standard $25 kydex holster and a $20 double mag pouch as "fancy gear"---the ones I listed specifically weren't fancy gear.

A mag pouch so the magazines are there in the same spot every time for reload practice.  A holster that covers the entire trigger guard, and keeps the gun in the same spot (and same orientation) every time.

That's not fancy, that's basic.

If, in your holster, the gun can move around, not only is the gun not secure, but it also means that practicing an effective draw is going to be harder.   A little while ago I had a student in class (Handgun Techniques class--fundamentals of draw, reload, grip, stance, trigger press, etc) who had a Bulldog-type holster.  (Basic nylon, gun just dropped in.) 

Since the gun wasn't actually secured in the holster (by molding or passive retention, which IS basic, not fancy) but instead just dropped in, and because the holster was universal in type (which means "it doesn't really fit anything") sometimes the gun would hang out the back and sometimes it would fall farther in--in other words, you couldn't get a consistent grip on the gun at all and who knows where it would be at any given time.  So when the student was trying to draw, she never knew where the gun might be, she always had to be extra careful getting a grip on the gun, and sometimes when the gun had fallen deeply into the holster she had to fix her grip when she finally got the gun out of the holster.

That makes for bad range practice.  Having a holster molded specifically to the gun, with enough passive retention (pretty much every decent holster comes with adjustable passive retention these days, even the $25 ones) so that the gun is safely held---that's not fancy, that's necessary.

We might be having a difference in the meaning of "range practice."  When I think of "basic range practice" I think of working on stance, grip, trigger control, sight picture/alignment, draws, reloads, transitions, and increasing my ability to be accurate at speed on those things.

Some people just go to the range to practice accuracy, and shooting groups.  Nothing wrong with that--but that's not what I'm talking about.  To me, "fundamental handgun techniques" include both getting the gun out safety and replenishing its ammo safely in addition to being accurate with it.

To do that, you need a decent holster and a decent mag pouch. 

(What decent holsters don't have passive retention?)

[JTH]

Are there a lot of accidental discharges because a molded plastic holster didn't cover the back 1/4" of the guard? I thought the main thing would be that it covered the trigger itself.

Having seen someone get a tree branch stuck in front of their trigger while they were walking through brush, and have it start to cock the hammer of a snub-nose revolver in a holster like that makes me see no reason to spend money on it.

Completely freak occurrence---but if the trigger guard is accessible, then it is accessible.   If there is an opening as you are walking around, there is a chance that something can get into that opening.  Whether that something is behind the trigger so I can't pull it when I want to, or in front it the trigger so it pulls it when I don't want it to---either way, I don't want any possibility of anything making it's way into the trigger guard.

I have absolutely no data on how often discharges happen under those circumstances. 

Looking at the pictures you posted, the worst "offender" is the LCP one (although that's a Kel-Tec P-3AT in there.)

Yeah, the Fobus website has a bunch of holsters for sale, but the pictures they put up don't always match the type of gun listed.

My LCP fits the same way, but you'd be really, really hard pressed to get anything somehow down in there and hooked over the trigger. I'd have to work at it for a while to  to get a loop of paracord in there and hooked around the trigger.  If I wore the LCP Fobus holster, and a pullover with a paracord tie at the bottom, I reckon I'd have to wear that combo every day for a few hundred years before the cord ever got itself somehow worked down in there.

Opinions may vary, mostly certainly.  But if any part of the trigger guard isn't covered, then something can get in there.  If something can get in there, then there is a potential for an accident.

Given the large number of perfectly economical holsters available out there that do completely cover the trigger guard, I see no reason to buy one that doesn't, given that I know issues can occur.  Are the chances high?  No---but why take any?  (This is pretty much my same reasoning for telling people that if they want a retention holster, get a Safariland ALS and don't get a SERPA.)

I'd think that an LCP or Smith 642 in a pocket holster and tight jeans pockets would be at much higher risk to somehow have something accidentally get in front of the trigger, then pressing on it when you sit down. And everyone tells me that risk is infinitesimally small and nothing to worry about.

Huh.  I have a couple of pocket holsters that I use for class demos (I don't carry with them, because I look like an idiot with a tumor when I use one) and every single one of them covers the trigger guard completely.  (Matter of fact, they cover more than regular holsters do.)  Not only does it seem unlikely to me that anything could get in them (other than lint over time) sitting down or something similar would push the holster in tighter around the guard, making it even less likely to have any issues.

In other words, sure, if something is in the trigger guard while you are holstering, then added pressure or a change in pressure somewhere may cause an issue--but that is true for any holster.  (Matter of fact, if that kind of problem occurs, it becomes noticeable much earlier with a holster than fully covers the trigger guard.)

But once the gun is in the holster and the holstered gun is in a pocket, I'm not seeing how something could work its way into the trigger guard.

Maybe I'm thinking about something different...

This, for example, is what I'm talking about:


I'll note that this second picture is the same type of holster, but I wouldn't use them if they looked like this:


To me, those guns in the second picture obviously don't fit the holsters shown, particular the Ruger semi-auto.  And in THOSE cases, I can see there being a potential safety issue.


I took a look around and I couldn't seem to find an LCP-fitting-version in any of the "first holster" suggestions I could think of.  There just doesn't seem to be any cheap OWB holsters for an LCP outside of a Fobus.    I have no idea what I'd suggest to someone who just bought an LCP as their first centerfire handgun and wanted to do some basic range practice on draws with it.  Looking around, there are a couple of leather belt slides that seem okay, for not too much more...ah.  Found one!

$40, so not great, but not $75, either.
http://www.foxxholsters.com/collections/owb/products/foxx-outside-the-waistband-holster?variant=1215253241

(That's a BIG leather backer for an OWB kydex holster, though....    )



Brief competition comment:  In USPSA, Steel Challenge, and Multigun competitions, the holster is required to cover the trigger guard, or it is not a legal holster for use in a match.  Not merely the trigger, but the trigger guard.

[Kendahl]

I just bought a Blade-Tech Revolution holster for my Gold Cup. It's the one jthhapkido just added to his list of recommended holsters.

I picked it over the others because of the carry choices it provides. All the necessary parts are included so that it can be a paddle holster or a belt holster. The holster part is attached to the paddle or belt loop by screws and there are extra holes to adjust cant in both directions. Belt widths from 1-1/4 to 2-1/4 inches can be accommodated.

Kydex thickness for the holster is 1/8 inch. The paddle is slightly thicker at 5/32 inch. I suspect the holster could be torn off the paddle but it seems strong enough for normal use.

In the paddle configuration, it is very stable with an inexpensive, but fairly stiff, 1-1/2 inch belt.  Straight drop actually gives me a few degrees of forward cant which is perfect for carry at 3 o'clock. To carry it on a belt, I think I would need a wider, proper gun belt.

Retention is only level one. It's fine for a range holster and, maybe, concealed carry but I wouldn't use it for open carry. For that, I would want level two even in a rural area where there is negligible risk of someone's snatching my gun. There are two screws to adjust tension. So far, I haven't found a reason to fiddle with them.

One detail that might bother jthhapkido is that the holster doesn't quite cover the entire trigger guard. Depending on how you measure it, there is about 1/8 inch gap. That's nowhere as much as some of the other holsters shown in this thread. I don't think it's a problem with a cocked and locked 1911 but it may be marginal if all you have is a trigger safety.

The vendor, associated with Amazon, was WebyShops. They had a few in stock while other vendors showed lead times of up to a month. Price was $30 plus $5 shipping. I placed my order on a Thursday and USPS delivered it the next Monday.

Overall, I'm satisfied with the Revolution. It's comfortable to wear as well as satisfactory for practice and low key matches at my gun club.

[tstuart34]

I don't think the revolution is Kydex but some type of injection molding. Regardless your right the mount is normally going to be the weakest link in any holster but normally you can almost pick a person up before they break. This is why kydex makers are moving to injection molded mounts becuase they are stronger! I would be interested to see a picture of the trigger guard if you get a chance.

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