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Author Topic: Open Carry in Vehicle in Nebraska?  (Read 6060 times)

Offline nesportshooter

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Open Carry in Vehicle in Nebraska?
« on: August 26, 2015, 07:28:52 PM »
I live out of state and occasionally visit Nebraska, my home state. I have a CCW permit recognized by Nebraska.

I have put together a strap below my steering wheel with a holster that will hold a pocket pistol .380 or a 3 inch barrel 9 mm. It seems it would be more quickly accessible than dealing with my concealed handgun under my shirt. I envision using a .380 pocket pistol there, and continue to carry my 9 mm Ruger LC9S under my shirt as usual.

I have examined various forums and it appears that should be legally permitted in Nebraska. Am I correct?

I notice it must be "clearly visible"... it clearly is visible, but of course you need to look there.

Am I going to put myself in any kind of legal jeopardy if I do this?

I'd be interested in comments from experience anybody might have.

Ron Klein

Offline NE Bull

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Re: Open Carry in Vehicle in Nebraska?
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2015, 09:41:54 PM »
With a CCW honored by NE, and NE being free to OC (other than Omaha) I see no reason to worry.
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Offline AAllen

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Re: Open Carry in Vehicle in Nebraska?
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2015, 07:59:49 AM »
With a CCW honored by NE, and NE being free to OC (other than Omaha, and Blair) I see no reason to worry.

Fixed it for you.

But as he said with the Concealed Permit you should have no problem in Nebraska.

Offline NE Bull

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Re: Open Carry in Vehicle in Nebraska?
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2015, 08:13:36 AM »
I always forget Blair. 
We really need to have our members research their city and let us know what the law is there.
“It is not an issue of being afraid, It's an issue of not being afraid to protect myself.”
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Offline JTH

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Re: Open Carry in Vehicle in Nebraska?
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2015, 09:41:48 AM »
I always forget Blair. 
We really need to have our members research their city and let us know what the law is there.

The law is stupid.  And completely shows why pre-emption is necessary, because it even makes concealed carry something you can still be arrested for, even if you have a NE CHP---according to them, the CHP can be used as an affirmative defense, which means you get to argue it in court.

Blair, NE Ordinances:
http://mail.ci.blair.ne.us/WebLink8/DocView.aspx?id=69492

6-315 and 6-316 are the specifics.

Basically:
1) any firearm you are carrying or possess in any manner outside your home must be unloaded, and
2) any handgun outside your home must be unloaded and either completely encased or broken down into parts.  They specifically mention that in a holster is not sufficiently encased.

Unless you are LEO, or a security guard registered with the Chief of Police, the only way around this is through an affirmative defense.

Even better, "...or the defendant was in compliance with all of the Nebraska Concealed Weapons permit requirements." is still under the affirmative defense part, which means you can be legally carrying under state law and yet according to this, you can be arrested, charged, and will have to prove this in court.

...which, I believe, is against the law.  If you have a NE concealed handgun permit, they cannot arrest you for carrying legally under that law.  But apparently they are going to try...

Note:  Not a lawyer.  But since the exception for CHP holders includes the words "defendant" and is in the section regarding affirmative defense in both ordinances, that's the way it seems to me.

We've got to get pre-emption passed.  I'll note that if I was a millionaire, we'd be having a test case about the concealed carry bit tomorrow, and then Blair would be sued for all the money it has for infringing on my rights by directly going against state law (state law currently says that no entity smaller than the state can regulate in any fashion the ownership, possession, or carry of concealable firearms by people who have a Nebraska Concealed Handgun permit, that would be NE Statute 18-1703) plus the little bit about our state constitution.

For those who don't know the statute:
18-1703. Ownership, possession, and transportation of concealed handguns; power of cities and villages; existing ordinance, permit, or regulation; null and void.

Cities and villages shall not have the power to regulate the ownership, possession, or transportation of a concealed handgun, as such ownership, possession, or transportation is authorized under the Concealed Handgun Permit Act, except as expressly provided by state law, and shall not have the power to require registration of a concealed handgun owned, possessed, or transported by a permitholder under the act. Any existing city or village ordinance, permit, or regulation regulating the ownership, possession, or transportation of a concealed handgun, as such ownership, possession, or transportation is authorized under the act, except as expressly provided under state law, and any existing city or village ordinance, permit, or regulation requiring the registration of a concealed handgun owned, possessed, or transported by a permitholder under the act, is declared to be null and void as against any permitholder possessing a valid permit under the act.

Their little affirmative defense clause still goes directly against that state statute.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 05:49:35 AM by jthhapkido »
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Offline barmandr

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Re: Open Carry in Vehicle in Nebraska?
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2015, 06:01:04 PM »
So, since NE is a "duty to inform" state, if you get pulled over for speeding and inform the officer that you are licensed and carrying, you'll end up getting arrested?  How has this not been addressed?

Offline Famous556

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Re: Open Carry in Vehicle in Nebraska?
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2015, 06:46:21 PM »
So, since NE is a "duty to inform" state, if you get pulled over for speeding and inform the officer that you are licensed and carrying, you'll end up getting arrested?  How has this not been addressed?

That's an interesting scenario and by the letter of the law you're right. As others have said this is why we need preemption at a state level. We've got the bill out there and out of committee. All we need is it to come to vote and some good senators to support it.
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Offline SemperFiGuy

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Re: Open Carry in Vehicle in Nebraska?
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2015, 09:07:36 AM »
A hint was made up above about Omaha's requirement of a permit for Open Carry.

To firm up that point, the Omaha MuniCode requires a formal officially-issued permit for Open Carry in Omaha:  Handgun Identification Card [which is the name actually headlined on the permit].

This permit further requires an 8-hour class w/written and range qualification exams, generally the same as NE Concealed Handgun Permit requirements.

As the saying goes, "Don't Leave Home Without It."

Or...............Just drive a big circle around Omaha.   Sorta like the Bigger Circle around Illinois.


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Offline SemperFiGuy

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Re: Open Carry in Vehicle in Nebraska?
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2015, 09:19:18 AM »
Quote
Am I going to put myself in any kind of legal jeopardy if I do this?

My comment on this item will appear to be extremely harsh, because it............is:

Any time that a Citizen is in possession of a handgun in the presence of an LEO, that Citizen is in Deep Jeopardy
.

Why do I say so?

Because that LEO can draw his service weapon, gun down and kill the Citizen where he sits, and then make any number of claims (reaching for the gun, pointing it at LEO, yada-yada-yada).   And then will be completely exonerated after an internal investigation has been completed.

Like I've already clearly admitted, the above comment is extremely harsh.

It's also something to think about each time that you, your handgun, and an LEO are in the same place-time event.


Case in Point:
http://search.myway.com/search/video.jhtml?searchfor=video+officer+threat+handgun+"concealed+carry"&cb=Y6&pg=GGmain&p2=^Y6^xdm003^S13734^us&qid=11fd9beeb50e

sfg
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 09:33:54 AM by SemperFiGuy »
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Offline Kendahl

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Re: Open Carry in Vehicle in Nebraska?
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2015, 01:51:51 PM »
the Omaha MuniCode requires a formal officially-issued permit for Open Carry in Omaha
As I understand it, state law pre-empts this requirement if you hold a CHP.

The same applies to Blair's ordinance. If a CHP holder is arrested for carrying, he will win in court. The only question will be how much time and money, his and Blair citizens', will be wasted before Blair officials concede defeat.

Offline tstuart34

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Re: Open Carry in Vehicle in Nebraska?
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2015, 02:10:35 PM »
Should start hitting Woodhouse with letters saying why we can't visit them. I'm sure they have a little pull in the city.

Offline bradhaas

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Re: Open Carry in Vehicle in Nebraska?
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2015, 02:42:11 PM »
As I understand it, state law pre-empts this requirement if you hold a CHP.

I thought so too, but the OPD site says otherwise.

Quote
The Nebraska Concealed Handgun Permit (CHP) which is issued by the Nebraska State Patrol allows a person to carry a concealable firearm (handgun) concealed on or about their person. In the City of Omaha, this particular permit DOES NOT allow a person to carry a concealable firearm IN THE OPEN.

If CHP carriers also wish to open carry at times, then it would be prudent to obtain the open carry permit through the Safety Council to ensure they are legal. The carrier would then have two separate permits ensuring the are legal in the City of Omaha.
Source: http://opd.ci.omaha.ne.us/services/citizen-services/handgun-registration#ccwopencarry

I believe the website has said different things in the past, and a Nebraska open carry forum had copies of an email exchange with then-city prosecutor Marty Conboy, in which he explicitly said that CHP holders may open carry.  But state law / preemption only applies to concealED (not just concealable) firearms, and the city code is kind of vague.  So I wouldn't risk it.

Offline RLMoeller

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Re: Open Carry in Vehicle in Nebraska?
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2015, 03:14:11 PM »
We are trying to get OPD to update the website as some of what they have published is not longer current.

The Omaha statute that covers this is Sec. 20-206. - Carrying weapons

Sec. 20-206. - Carrying weapons.


(a) As provided in section 20-192, the carrying of a concealed weapon is expressly forbidden.

(b) In all other cases, it shall be unlawful for a person to go armed with a loaded concealable firearm of any kind or to knowingly carry or transport a concealable firearm in a motor vehicle, provided, however, that this section shall not apply to the following persons:

(1) Persons lawfully entitled to possess a firearm while upon the premises where he or she regularly resides or is regularly employed.

(2) Peace officers.

(3) Members of the armed forces of the United States, the National Guard, or the Reserve Officer Training Corps when on duty or training.

(4) Persons who for any lawful purpose carry an unloaded concealable firearm inside a closed and fastened container or securely wrapped package which is too large to be concealed on the person.

(5) Persons who for any lawful purpose carry or transport an unloaded concealable firearm in a vehicle inside a closed and fastened container or securely wrapped package which is too large to be concealed on the person or inside a cargo or luggage compartment where the concealable firearm will not be readily accessible to any person riding in the vehicle or common carrier.

(6) Persons in or upon a shooting range or the regular business premises of a federally and city licensed firearms dealer.

(7) Persons engaged in a generally recognized course of instruction in the use of firearms, such as hunter safety instructions or instruction for the purpose of obtaining an identification card showing satisfactory completion of the firearm training program as set forth in section 20-207.

(8. ) Persons who have verified to the city that they are entitled to a waiver of the firearm training program as set forth in section 20-207(k).

(9) Persons who have obtained and display an identification card showing satisfactory completion of the firearm training program as set forth in section 20-207.

(10) Persons possessing a valid permit to carry a concealed firearm under Nebraska Law.

(Ord. No. 33113, § 7, 11-23-93; Ord. No. 34229, § 1, 6-17-97; Ord. No. 37432, § 2, 7-18-06)
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 03:19:33 PM by RLMoeller »

Offline RLMoeller

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Re: Open Carry in Vehicle in Nebraska?
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2015, 03:19:11 PM »
Sec. 20-207 referenced in (b) 7,8, and 9 above is the training required for the "Open carry" permit .


Sec. 20-207. - Firearm training program.

? ? ? ? ?
(a)A training program to qualify persons in the safe use of firearms shall, after review and approval by resolution by the city council, be established and operated by the city, which may contract with private organizations or use the services of other agencies, or may use a combination of the two, to provide such training. Said resolution shall be submitted to the city council on or before December 21, 1993.

(b)A fee shall be charged each person attending the training program. The city shall set out a reasonable fee, to be set by the city council, after review and approval by said resolution, which shall include the cost of training, to be paid to the licensed training facility, and to the city.

(c)An identification card on a form approved by the city shall be issued to each person who successfully completes the training program.

(d)The training program shall consist of eight to ten hours of classroom training and education and two hours of practical firearm operation at an approved shooting range.

(e)The city shall prescribe such procedures as may be necessary for its operation in conformity with the provisions of this article.

(f)The city shall have complete control over the training program and shall decide upon the qualifications of all applicants.

(g)An applicant for the training program shall fill out a form stating his or her full name, social security number (optional), residence, age, whether applicant has ever been convicted of a felony, whether the person is addicted to the use of alcohol or any controlled substance, whether the person has any history of mental illness, and whether the person has ever been convicted of a misdemeanor involving acts of violence.

(h)The identification card shall be valid for three years from the date of issuance.

(i)The identification card may be renewed every three years provided that:

(1)The applicant pays a reasonable recertification fee, as set by the city council.

(2)The applicant has not violated, or is currently charged with violating, any applicable provision of this Code, state law or city ordinance, rule or regulation during the past three years.

(j)The identification card may be revoked by the city for the violation of any applicable provision of this Code, state law or city ordinance, rule or regulation, or if the identification card was issued to an unqualified applicant.

(k)Waivers may granted to those who can provide evidence of satisfactory completion of either a United States armed forces or a nationally recognized handgun firearms training program.

(Ord. No. 33113, § 8, 11-23-93; Ord. No. 34229, § 2, 6-17-97)

Offline Husker_Fan

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Re: Open Carry in Vehicle in Nebraska?
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2015, 03:32:33 PM »
Someone should ask the mayor. She has a CHP.


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Offline SemperFiGuy

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Re: Open Carry in Vehicle in Nebraska?
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2015, 04:15:03 PM »
Quote
I believe the website has said different things in the past, and a Nebraska open carry forum had copies of an email exchange with then-city prosecutor Marty Conboy, in which he explicitly said that CHP holders may open carry.  But state law / preemption only applies to concealED (not just concealable) firearms, and the city code is kind of vague.  So I wouldn't risk it.

Yup.   Those are the Basic Facts, summed up at the end with Wise Counsel.

I taught both Open Carry and Concealed Handgun Permit at the Nebraska Safety Council for some years.   There was never a hint given in our classes that the NE CHP would also serve as the Open Carry permit.  Even with the Marty Conboy memo.   Prosecutors come and go.  Mr. Conboy is gone.   His memo is no longer operative.  But Omaha MuniCode 20-207 is still on the books.


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Offline JTH

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Re: Open Carry in Vehicle in Nebraska?
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2015, 08:13:14 PM »
But Omaha MuniCode 20-207 is still on the books.

True. And the OPD website says the CHP won't count.

On the other hand, it wouldn't be the first time a police department's website was wrong.

20-206, as others have noted above, says in part a)
"As provided in section 20-192, the carrying of a concealed weapon is expressly forbidden."

20-192 is solely about carrying a concealed weapon.

Section 20-206, part b) then says (emphasis mine):
"In all other cases, it shall be unlawful for a person to go armed with a loaded concealable firearm of any kind or to knowingly carry or transport a concealable firearm in a motor vehicle, provided, however, that this section shall not apply to the following persons:"

Concealed weapons were covered in part a), which referenced 20-192.

Therefore, b) is about all other cases, and specifically uses "concealable" instead of "concealed"--which obviously includes open carry.

Under part b), we of course have all the cases where said carry is legal.  Among which is the Open Carry Permit in section 9 of part b.  With no change in wording, type, or section, part 10 immediately underneath part 9 says:
"Persons possessing a valid permit to carry a concealed firearm under Nebraska Law."

Concealed firearms had been covered in part a.  Part b specifically says "all other cases" which specifically referenced Open Carry via section 9 of part b.

In my opinion (not a lawyer) there is should be no doubt that the Nebraska CHP is therefore sufficient for carry in "all other cases" in Omaha, using their own wording.

It does not surprise me that OPD does not say this.  It would not surprise me if someone was cited for open carrying with a CHP.  It would shock me if this made it to court. 

"...all other cases..."
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Offline Husker_Fan

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Re: Open Carry in Vehicle in Nebraska?
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2015, 08:45:17 PM »
I believe the OPD website statement predates preemtion for CHP holders. Conboy's memo was based on that change to the law.

CHP preemption applies to concealable guns. That's why you don't have to register with the city anymore.


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Offline JTH

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Re: Open Carry in Vehicle in Nebraska?
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2015, 10:28:07 PM »
CHP preemption applies to concealable guns. That's why you don't have to register with the city anymore.

Actually, the problem we have is that while an earlier version of 18-1703 used the word "concealable" the actual statute says "concealed."

Thus the issue for "concealable" weapons that are not "concealed."

The reason registration in Omaha got dumped for CHP holders is that the OPD couldn't prove that the handgun you are buying won't be used for concealed carry.  Their current weaseling is trying to say that a CHP only gives pre-emption for concealed weapons, not all pistols.

Unfortunately for them, the Omaha ordinance is written differently.
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Offline m morton

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Re: Open Carry in Vehicle in Nebraska?
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2015, 08:30:14 PM »
an update to this post open carry is now legal in Omaha IF you have a ccw / chp  you may open carry any place in Nebraska now with a ccw. as the ccw class and the Omaha open carry classes ccw class must of been deemed equal or better then what was needed.  so the OPD site was updated.

in this ccw permit holder opinion: it is better to CCW then to show off a weapon "open carry" , it makes others fear you or wonder if your the next person that going to shoot up the place, or have some one start a confrontation , open carry all so make your self the first target of a criminal or crazy person... so i will ccw but it is nice to know that if my shirt rides up , or i reach above my head and my gun plays peek-a-boo i can no longer be ticketed etc...

http://opd.ci.omaha.ne.us/services/citizen-services/handgun-registration#ccwopencarry

now reads : change made shown in underline and now states DOES allow

12.  Can a Nebraska CCW Permit holder open carry in the City of Omaha?

Omaha Municipal Code 20-206 prohibits people from carrying concealable firearms (handguns) in the open within the City of Omaha limits with some exceptions. One exception is obtaining the "open carry permit." This can be obtained through the National Safety Council, Nebraska. Access the following link to obtain more information about getting an "open carry permit" for the City of Omaha:

National Safety Council, Nebraska Open Carry Class

The Nebraska Concealed Handgun Permit (CHP) which is issued by the Nebraska State Patrol allows a person to carry a concealable firearm (handgun) concealed on or about their person. In the City of Omaha, this particular permit DOES allow a person to carry a concealable firearm IN THE OPEN, per Omaha Municipal Code 20-206, subsection B (10).


****
more info on:http://www.sos.ne.gov/rules-and-regs/regsearch/Rules/State_Patrol/Title-272/Chapter-21.pdf
 &
https://www.municode.com/library/ne/omaha/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=PTIIMUCO_CH20OF_ARTVIIWE_DIV1GE_S20-206CAWE
I will allow myself one personal observation. If you want to disarm yourself, that is your choice. The following quote is a favorite of mine and something to keep in mind when you make that choice.

“Sheep don’t tell wolves what’s for dinner.”