Author Topic: I may actually want an evil, icky black rifle (Read 5467 times)

ILoveCats · « **on:** September 04, 2015, 12:23:48 PM »

As a "real guns only have wood stocks and glossy bluing" kind of guy, it pains me to admit this. I handled and shot a friend's AR recently (short barrel so technically an M4 maybe... whatever...) and it was pretty neat. Not a lot of tacticool rails and lights and sirens and stuff stuck all over it; nice and basic. And lighter than I expected. My son just passed his hunter safety and may want to get a deer this year, and I couldn't help but think with it's light weight and adjustable stock, it might not make a bad first deer rifle.

I always thought, nah, that caliber is too light and a hunting with an AR is just kinda ... gauche. Maybe I was wrong. I keep hearing of more and more younguns who do a fine job getting their first deer with that caliber and 'platform'.

So, without getting too much into the discussion of whether the caliber is enough for deer, what do you all think of the new breed of budget ARs that have cropped up in the last couple years? Some co-workers have recently bought the S&W "sports" and Ruger's new budget offering, and seem to like them very much. Are they all they're cracked up to be? Do they typically come with a rifling twist that would work for heavier-bullet loads one would use for game? Any brands to stay away from?

I'm just starting to surf the 'web and read up on all this since I'm not even fully fluent on the difference between 5.56 and .223.

tstuart34 · « **Reply #1 on:** September 04, 2015, 01:34:53 PM »

Start out 556 is hotter then 223. You can shoot 223 in a 556 chamber but not 556 in a 223 chamber. Then you have 223 wylde that can shoot 556.

The trend right now is going with a 1:9 twist becuase it stablizes the lighter 55 gr bullets. Slowly 1:8 twist is coming popular since it is in the middle of the 1:7 and 1:9. Anything over 64gr is not recommend in a 1:9 but have seen reports that it works. 1:7 twist works for your 70'sgr well.

Quality of rifles vary a lot.... mainly in the trigger and barrel quality. Chrom lined barrels are often bottom barrel any more. Melonite and other coatings are trending to high end. I would guess that the M&P is 1:9 twist possibly same with Ruger(never looked). If you go budget your going to get budget. Is it fun to shoot yes. Will it be minute of dear yes. Will you want to upgrade it more than likely.

ILoveCats · « **Reply #2 on:** September 04, 2015, 01:50:11 PM »

Thanks. Looked at the Ruger over lunch. Barrel on that was 1:8. The rest seemed to be 1:9. The Ruger was nice but the front sight seemed to be pretty permanently attached, so not sure how that would work with optics.

Quote from: tstuart34 on September 04, 2015, 01:34:53 PM

If you go budget your going to get budget. Is it fun to shoot yes. Will it be minute of dear yes. Will you want to upgrade it more than likely.

Well I figure you can always use a budget AR kicking around, right? That's why this would not be "the kid's deer rifle" but "Dad's rifle that you can borrow 'til you get a job and buy your own gun."

tstuart34 · « **Reply #3 on:** September 04, 2015, 02:06:38 PM »

1:8 would work great with some TSX bullets.

If it has the standard site post on it that can be removed for a low profile gas block. Ar require a lot more riser then a bolt rifle does. I have never shot a rifle with a iron site and a scope but if you have the scope high enough (1/3 cowitness) because of the focal point the site post disappears. Someone else would have to chime in on that.

NE Bull · « **Reply #4 on:** September 04, 2015, 03:43:42 PM »

The DPMS Oracle comes with no sights- "optics ready"
Watch Palmetto State Armory, you can assemble and upper and lower of your choice pretty inexpensively.

NE Bull · « **Reply #5 on:** September 04, 2015, 04:05:15 PM »

DEGuns usually have some Oracles in stock and on sale:
http://www.deguns.net/DPMS-Oracle-5-56-AR15-60531-dpms-oracle-for-sale-p/60531.htm
Now the AR snobs will balk about DPMS, but frankly, they've been in the game a while and I've never had a problem with any of mine, and one of them as been thru hell (Afghanistan) and back.

Hardwood83 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 04, 2015, 04:09:51 PM »

Congratulations. Not to muddle things for you too much but AR's also come in other (more deer appropriate) calibers too. My current 'go to' deer rifle is a 6.8spc AR (from Palemtto State Armory as mentioned before). It's very accurate and has been quite effective.

ILoveCats · « **Reply #7 on:** September 04, 2015, 04:53:20 PM »

Quote from: Hardwood83 on September 04, 2015, 04:09:51 PM

Congratulations. Not to muddle things for you too much but AR's also come in other (more deer appropriate) calibers too.

Yep! I did at least know that much, and it's kind of the appeal. If I go and buy a youth-size bolt gun, I forever own a youth-size bolt gun. If I buy an AR then I can turn it into a whole lotta things based on the "mission".

(Some web surfing has taught me that if you're going to own an AR you have to grow a goatee and use the words 'mission', 'platform' and 'system' a whole bunch.)

bkoenig · « **Reply #8 on:** September 04, 2015, 05:22:53 PM »

+1 on the Palmetto State Armory stuff. They're pretty good quality for the money. Not top of the line, but pretty decent.

barmandr · « **Reply #9 on:** September 04, 2015, 06:04:32 PM »

If you want to make it really special, build the rifle with your son. Then you both get the satisfaction of him taking his first deer with something you built together. Building it yourself also allows you to get the exact rifle parts you want from the start, so in the long run it's cheaper as you are not replacing parts someone else used to build the rifle.

ILoveCats · « **Reply #10 on:** September 04, 2015, 06:32:34 PM »

Quote from: barmandr on September 04, 2015, 06:04:32 PM

If you want to make it really special, build the rifle with your son. Then you both get the satisfaction of him taking his first deer with something you built together. Building it yourself also allows you to get the exact rifle parts you want from the start, so in the long run it's cheaper as you are not replacing parts someone else used to build the rifle.

That's a really great idea. I've certainly got a lot of reading to do about these guns.

RobertH · « **Reply #11 on:** September 04, 2015, 07:39:51 PM »

You don't want an AR. You NEED an AR! And an SBR and can.

Also Labor Day sales are going on now!

gsd · « **Reply #12 on:** September 04, 2015, 08:50:37 PM »

Goatee? I have a beard thank you:)

I've built, rebuilt, overbuilt and wrongly built enough ARs in the last few years. Feel free to Pam me any questions you may have, I'll be glad to help.

bkoenig · « **Reply #13 on:** September 04, 2015, 08:55:48 PM »

Don't forget "Operate" and "Run". You don't shoot AR's, you Operate or Run them, depending on whether you're an Operator or a Gamer.

Waltherfan · « **Reply #14 on:** September 05, 2015, 09:45:43 AM »

Take a look at AR15.com. They have a section that will walk you through all the things you need to know about the platform. It also explains the 556/223 question.
Plus their general discussion forum is a hoot

Mudinyeri · « **Reply #15 on:** September 05, 2015, 02:02:07 PM »

Quote from: Waltherfan on September 05, 2015, 09:45:43 AM

Take a look at AR15.com. Plus their general discussion forum is a hoot

That's one way to describe their forum.

Like Dave, I've built quite a few AR's over the last several years. In fact, right now there is a series of articles on my digital magazine, trektechblack.com, that details the build of my Run and Gun AR (not operate and gun) used in the Oklahoma Run and Gun.

I'm also happy to answer any questions ... in PM or open forum.

tstuart34 · « **Reply #16 on:** September 05, 2015, 04:29:22 PM »

Quote from: Hardwood83 on September 04, 2015, 04:09:51 PM

Congratulations. Not to muddle things for you too much but AR's also come in other (more deer appropriate) calibers too. My current 'go to' deer rifle is a 6.8spc AR (from Palemtto State Armory as mentioned before). It's very accurate and has been quite effective.

+1 on 6.8 sweet little round.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

OnTheFly · « **Reply #17 on:** September 05, 2015, 04:45:31 PM »

Quote from: Mudinyeri on September 05, 2015, 02:02:07 PM

That's one way to describe their forum.

Like Dave, I've built quite a few AR's over the last several years. In fact, right now there is a series of articles on my digital magazine, trektechblack.com, that details the build of my Run and Gun AR (not operate and gun) used in the Oklahoma Run and Gun.

I'm also happy to answer any questions ... in PM or open forum.

IMHO...you are better off using the expertise available on this forum. I never got my butt chewed on AR15.com, but I read plenty of posts where someone was chewed up and spit out for asking a question. That left me with a poor impression of their forum. Seemed to be too many internet tough guys over there.

Fly

tstuart34 · « **Reply #18 on:** September 06, 2015, 07:20:18 AM »

Quote from: OnTheFly on September 05, 2015, 04:45:31 PM

IMHO...you are better off using the expertise available on this forum. I never got my butt chewed on AR15.com, but I read plenty of posts where someone was chewed up and spit out for asking a question. That left me with a poor impression of their forum. Seemed to be too many internet tough guys over there.

Fly

Tech forums strict rules against butt chewing. General discussion you better pucker up. you have to be a ARFcom high prestige like BK. If a person sticks the tech your safe read the stickies at the top of the page they are full of info. Oh yeah don't mention your wife.

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ILoveCats · « **Reply #19 on:** September 06, 2015, 08:22:01 AM »

Thanks again to all. Much reading to do. May reach out with questions if I decide to build, but I don't want to rush it and have to have a frantic, gotta get it done by deer season pace. May buy a cheap one to get familiar with the design first, then that's something that I could trade off as a project gun comes along later.