CCW while hunting

[zofoman]

perfect example on why it needs to go.  maybe the NFOA needs a state senator to rattle the cages and get a bill introduced to simplify and streamline things.

besides people who have CCW, are not the ones that will break the law (ie using a pistol to shoot a deer on an archery tag).

   I'll second that.   

[Randy]

Then, there is the no carrying while operating a snow mobile!?!?

[barmandr]

Then, there is the no carrying while operating a snow mobile!?!?

Good question.  I was told by a CO that since that rule is under the game laws that it only applies if engaged in hunting activities.

[Sandhillian]

    Then, there is the no carrying while operating a snow mobile!?!?

Good question.  I was told by a CO that since that rule is under the game laws that it only applies if engaged in hunting activities.

That provision is not in the Game Law, it is in the Rules of the Road at section 60-6,342.  And, the first violation is a Class III misdemeanor (60-6,343).

[barmandr]

section 60-6,342

Ok, so he was wrong about the exact section it falls under...but that still doesn't negate the fact that one of the elements of the crime is that you must be engaged in hunting.  Read the title of the offense.  If you are not engaged in hunting, you are not violating this section.  Also, Chapter 60 is not "Rules of the Road", it is the motor vehicle section.

60-6,342. Snowmobiles; carrying firearms; hunting; unlawful. 
It shall be unlawful for any person to shoot, take, hunt, or kill or attempt to shoot, take, hunt, or kill any wild animal or bird from or with a snowmobile or for any person to carry or possess any shotgun or rimfire rifle while operating or riding on a snowmobile, or for any person to carry or possess any firearm, bow and arrow, or other projectile device on a snowmobile unless such bow and arrow or projectile device is enclosed in a car carrying case or such firearm is unloaded and enclosed in a carrying case.

[JTH]

Yes, but one of the elements of the crime is that you are engaged in hunting.  Read the title of the offense.  If you are not engaged in hunting, you are not violating this section.

Courts won't see it that way.  The clauses are separate.

60-6,342. Snowmobiles; carrying firearms; hunting; unlawful.

It shall be unlawful for any person to shoot, take, hunt, or kill or attempt to shoot, take, hunt, or kill any wild animal or bird from or with a snowmobile or for any person to carry or possess any shotgun or rimfire rifle while operating or riding on a snowmobile, or for any person to carry or possess any firearm, bow and arrow, or other projectile device on a snowmobile unless such bow and arrow or projectile device is enclosed in a car carrying case or such firearm is unloaded and enclosed in a carrying case.

In the bold part above, note the "or."  It doesn't say "hunting AND...." it says "or."

Here's what it means:

It shall be unlawful for any person to:
a) shoot, take, hunt, or kill or attempt to shoot, take, hunt, or kill any wild animal or bird from or with a snowmobile,
b) carry or possess any shotgun or rimfire rifle while operating or riding on a snowmobile,
c) carry or possess any firearm, bow and arrow, or other projectile device on a snowmobile unless such bow and arrow or projectile device is enclosed in a car carrying case or such firearm is unloaded and enclosed in a carrying case.

You'll note that "hunting" is only a part of the first one.  If you do the second or third (whether hunting or not) the way the law is worded, you are still in trouble.  They don't have to prove you had the firearm for hunting purposes.  If you have it, you have broken the law.

Whether that is an intelligent law is a different discussion.  In a similar fashion, whether that is what the law was originally meant to mean is a different discussion.   If you have a firearm on you on a snowmobile and it isn't in a case, you are breaking this particular law.

[Sandhillian]

Yes, but one of the elements of the crime is that you are engaged in hunting.  Read the title of the offense.  If you are not engaged in hunting, you are not violating this section.

That's not accurate at all.  The title of the offense is not the law, and it does not supply any element of the offense.  The title is made by the Revisor of Statutes, not the Legislature.  The elements are in the body of the statute.

If you break that statute into three parts, it's easier to understand.  Section 60-6,342 makes it unlawful to:

(1) shoot, take, hunt, or kill or attempt to shoot, take, hunt, or kill any wild animal or bird from or with a snowmobile; or
(2) carry or possess any shotgun or rimfire rifle while operating or riding on a snowmobile; or
(3) carry or possess ANY firearm, bow and arrow, or other projectile device on a snowmobile UNLESS such bow and arrow or projectile device is enclosed in a car carrying case or such firearm is unloaded and enclosed in a carrying case.

All three of those things are criminalized by the statute, and the 2nd and 3rd have nothing to do with hunting.  The only lawful way to have a firearm on a snowmobile is to have it unloaded and enclosed in a carrying case.  It doesn't make any difference whether you are hunting or not.

The conservation officer you talked to might not ticket someone for the offense, but it's definitely possible if he wanted to.  Don't expect any other law enforcement officer to read that statute the same as the CO.  If you are carrying a concealed handgun on a snowmobile, you are breaking the law, period.

[Sandhillian]

You beat me to the punch jthhapkido.

[JTH]

You beat me to the punch jthhapkido.

Great minds think alike, etc, etc... 

[SemperFiGuy]

Just to fully flesh out the statute:

>No loaded, uncased slingshots
>No loaded, uncased peashooters, either.

(Both are projectile devices.)

I once called NG&P to find out the back story on this particular snowmobile statute, since it's so out of sync with all the other CHP no-carry prohibitions.

Talked to a whole chain of nice folks.   Kept getting passed on up, down, and around the chain of inquiry.   No one knew the official "why" of this statute.  (We can all guess, but I wanted to hear someone say it out loud.)

Finally they sent me to the Been-There-Forever-Senior-Old-Guy-Officer.   I posed the question.  He thought about it for a good long while.

Then he said, "It's ALWAYS been that way."

I thanked him for the insightful information and then quietly hung up.

Perfect Bureaucratic Closeout:  "It's ALWAYS been that way."

sfg

[m morton]

do they all so have laws about  "off road dirt bikes" & 4Wheelers or is it just the snowmobiles  ?

[ILoveCats]

Back in the 70s, coyote pelts were worth a lot of money.  As a youngster I remember a lot of guys going out on their lightning-fast 250cc John Deere Spitfires with a .357 revolver in the storage console. They could come back with enough coyotes to pay for a fair portion of their sled.

Usually you'd just chase 'em until they were too pooped to run much and then shoot them. Actually running them over wasn't good for the pelt! I did know one guy who came back home once with a coyote wedged between his skis and fairing that he didn't know was there.

I believe that is the background.

[Sandhillian]

Then he said, "It's ALWAYS been that way."

Back in the 70s, coyote pelts were worth a lot of money.

The law looks like it was first enacted in 1971, and last amended in 1993.

[depserv]

It's legal to carry a gun on a snowmobile or on anything else, as per both our state and federal Constitutions.  But the law apparently doesn't matter much when those who have no respect for the law have the power to arrest you, extort money from you, and put you in jail.  Maybe what we should work on is a law that says this: all government entities, including the state legislature, shall obey the law. 

[SemperFiGuy]

And it's possible that--on a slow coyote day--maybe a deer or two was taken.

Interestingly enough, there seems to be no prohibition anywhere against shooting from an ATV 4-wheeler.

Or a dirt bike, for that matter.

So....watch out for that top strand of bob-wire.   It'll lop a head quicker than Charlie Cong's thinsteel crossroads clothesline.

sfg