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Author Topic: Measuring long-term performance gains...  (Read 3332 times)

Offline JTH

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Measuring long-term performance gains...
« on: October 18, 2016, 11:29:39 AM »
Recently, Rob Pincus, in his continuing quest to make money while not teaching people how to shoot along with making sure that no one else gets better at shooting either, posted another comment decrying the use of timers for people  trying to increase shooting skills.

It made as much sense as he normally does when he isn't copying content from someone knowledgeable and competent (i.e., none), and it occurred to me that talking about some straightforward diagnostic drills that you can use for measuring performance gains might be useful to some people.

There are tons of various drill descriptions available via the Internet these days, but three in particular are ones that I like for those who are interested in creating a performance mark for themselves (with respect to many of the handgun skills useful for self-defense) that they can check over time.

As diagnostics, these drills aren't for practicing---in other words, you don't run these drills multiple times trying to get better at the drill.  Instead, they are a way of quickly testing your ability, (cold, on demand) to perform a sequence of shooting skills.  Running this once a month (or if you are only able to get to the range once a month, running this once every 6 months) can give you an idea of what skills are improving, what skills need improvement, and how you perform cold, on demand.

This doesn't test anything other than shooting skills under stress, and obviously self-defense covers a LOT more ground than that.  However, shooting skills are obviously important also, and having a way to check your progress is important, if you want to get better in an efficient fashion.

https://precisionresponse.wordpress.com/2016/10/18/measuring-long-term-performance-increases/

What diagnostic drills do you like to run?  What skills are you tracking when you run them?
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Offline DenmanShooter

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Re: Measuring long-term performance gains...
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2016, 09:51:17 PM »
Very nice article and good information at the link.

In your post, however, you mention Rob Pincus speaking of timer drills.  I believe you are taking his words out of context.

He merely says timer drills are not necessarily essential in the cases of people training for self defense, that there are far more things for them to work on and to not get hung up on timer drills.  Especially practicing just one particular drill to get fast at it and obsessing over that drill.

"Slow is smooth.  Smooth is fast. "   

"It isn't the first shot in a gunfight, it's the first hit that matters." -- Wyatt Earp

The golf course is a willful and deliberate misuse of a perfectly good rifle range!      Jeff  Cooper

Offline JTH

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Re: Measuring long-term performance gains...
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2016, 10:22:43 PM »
In your post, however, you mention Rob Pincus speaking of timer drills.  I believe you are taking his words out of context.

Actually, he's recently said that timers not only aren't necessary, but are in fact detrimental to learning how to shoot.   

Way back when, his comments were merely that an over-emphasis on the timer wasn't good (thank you, department of the obvious), but lately he's been saying a lot more than that.

Granted, this is the guy that says dryfire practice not only doesn't help, but makes you worse. 

Quote
He merely says timer drills are not necessarily essential in the cases of people training for self defense, that there are far more things for them to work on and to not get hung up on timer drills.  Especially practicing just one particular drill to get fast at it and obsessing over that drill.

As is normal for him, while he started out saying things like that, he's gone much further than that recently.  He also has a tendency to use weasel words when making statements like that, so that when he gets called on it, he says "you are taking what I said out of context." 

For example, "not necessarily essential" is a great weasel-word statement---because no one has said that for self-defense practice, timers were essential in the first place.  So he's making an argument against something no one ever said.

Which is separate from whether or not timers are a really good idea.

In a similar fashion, getting "hung up on" any particular drill concept isn't a good idea, and his arguing against it is another way for him to sound reasonable while arguing against something that no one argues FOR in the first place.

Mostly, the only people who practice a particular drill to get fast at it (and obsess over it) are people who are practicing that drill because it is central to what they do.   This would be people who do western quick-draw competitions, people who do bullseye competitions, and the like.

No one says that they are making a mistake doing that.   No one argues against people who do that.  Obsessing over the drill that practices directly what you need to be good at IS the way to get really good at it.

At the same time, no one says that obsessing over a drill when the goal is self-defense is a good idea.  So again, Rob is phrasing things so it looks like he is making a good argument---even though it is against something that no one argues for in the first place.

None of that changes the fact that every single trainer of physical skill out there knows that objective measurement is the best way to find the most efficient fashion to improve.  And in terms of self-defense, there are certain physical skills (regarding gun-handling) that should be worked on...which means that objective measurement would be an important idea.  Pincus continually speaks out against this sort of thing, probably because he doesn't do any of it in his classes, and probably shouldn't because then there would be actual data showing whether or not his classes are useful.

Interestingly enough, like I said, lately he's made stronger statements against timers, practicing shooting skills (as opposed to what he calls "defensive skills"), and actual objective measures of shooting skills.  Making it even more obvious that he thinks that shooting skill sufficient for self-defense will magically appear when needed.

Quote
"Slow is smooth.  Smooth is fast. "

Actually, slow is just slow.  Go to any match (or watch the shooters trying a fun stage at the NFOA meeting) and you'll see plenty of slow people who aren't smooth.

And smooth isn't necessarily fast, either.  (Similarly, watching people at a match, you'll see people who ARE smooth.  But they aren't fast.)

It is certainly true that many people who are fast are indeed very smooth.  But you don't get fast unless you practice to be fast.   And much of that "smoothness" is simply because they aren't performing an extraneous motion, not because of any particular wish or attempt to create a flow of motion. 

Quote
"It isn't the first shot in a gunfight, it's the first hit that matters." -- Wyatt Earp

Yup.  But since you don't know how fast the other guy is, assuming you'll have plenty of time isn't really a good idea, I think. 

It seems to me that some fundamentally important gun-related physical skills (that should be a priority for physical practice) would be efficient draws and accuracy at speed.  If you aren't ever taking any sort of measurement of those physical skills, how do you know that your practice is working at making you better?  (How it "feels" often bears no relation to how well it is working.)  If you don't know what you are bad at, how do you know what you should be working on?
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Offline DenmanShooter

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Re: Measuring long-term performance gains...
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2016, 09:13:14 PM »
Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes.

I am glad you extrapolated on your criticism of Pincus and explained more fully where you were coming from.

Thanks
The golf course is a willful and deliberate misuse of a perfectly good rifle range!      Jeff  Cooper

Offline JTH

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Re: Measuring long-term performance gains...
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2016, 04:50:42 PM »
Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes.

I am glad you extrapolated on your criticism of Pincus and explained more fully where you were coming from.

Thanks

:)

Thank YOU for taking the time to make me explain.  Seriously. 

I generally DO have reasons for the things that I say, but it often doesn't occur to me until afterward that most other people don't know those reasons, and if I don't say them, they just think I am making random pompous pronouncements.  (There really IS thought behind them, really!)

I really do appreciate the fact that you weren't satisfied with what I was saying, and called me out to explain more of what I meant.  Makes for a MUCH better situation with regard to the topic!
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Offline abbafandr

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Re: Measuring long-term performance gains...
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2016, 04:53:30 PM »
I have used all 3 drills ( with varying degrees of ineptitude :laugh:)  You don't feel they are good ones to practice, but for diagnostic purposes only?

Offline JTH

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Re: Measuring long-term performance gains...
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2016, 07:56:53 AM »
I have used all 3 drills ( with varying degrees of ineptitude :laugh:)  You don't feel they are good ones to practice, but for diagnostic purposes only?

Pretty much, yes.

Take the FAST drill, for example.  It tests a concealment draw, low-percentage shots, emergency reload, and grip/stance/trigger for repeated high-percentage shots.  And it tests the shooter on their ability to move smoothly from one skill to the next (which many people are ALSO bad at doing).

As a test, it makes a really good diagnostic, because it tests many skills in a short amount of time, and if you track all of your shot times (the splits and everything) you can get data not only on the test as a whole, but on the specific skills throughout.  (If you have a 1.2 emergency reload but 1.3 splits on the headbox shots, that tells you what you should be working on.)

The problem with the FAST as a drill is exactly the reason why it makes for a good test---it has so many skills all put together at once.  In general, to get good at a particular skill, you need to start by working it in isolation.  If you want a quick, consistent reload, you break down the reload into sections, and practice those sections.  Then you practice some Burkett reloads to work on hand speed and making the the magazine hit the magwell correctly.  Then you work some shot-reload-shot drills to get used to starting the reload off the recoil.  Then you do full reloads in dryfire, using dummy rounds so that on each rep, you can tell if (for emergency reload practice) the slide is being released correctly so you always get a round in the chamber.  Then you go to the range and have small-but-random numbers of rounds in magazine, so that you end up with emergency reloads at odd times, and work on quickly getting the gun back in action.  Then you practice draw, one-shot, reload, two-shots, reload, three shot drills.

....or something like that.  That will make you better at reloads MUCH more quickly than running the FAST drill a number of times.

Correct repetitions make you better---and correct repetitions in which you focus on the exact skill you want to make better will make it happen faster.  Doing 20 Burkett reloads in dryfire then practicing 20 full reloads in dryfire will make a much larger difference to my reload skills than running the FAST drill 10 times---and it'll take me less time.  Taking the speed and precision increase that I just got in dryfire to the range, and working one-shot/reload/one-shot drills 20 times will help me take that skill increase and apply it at the right time including making sure my grip and trigger control after the reload is correct.

Running the FAST drill 20 times....just isn't going to get me that increase.  It has TOO MUCH going on to be good practice.

Sure, over time you'll need to start working on chaining skills (the ability to smoothly and quickly transition from one skill to the next is a skill in itself, and it also requires practice) but most people need to start just by working two consecutive skills.  Then three.  Then maybe four.  Oddly enough, for most competition stages (which tend to be a LOT more complicated than most citizen self-defense situations, in terms of shooting skill sequences, weirdly enough), you generally don't need to chain more than four skills without having a pause as you move to the next shooting position and then need to chain skills again.

But...like I said, chaining itself is a skill that needs practice.  And any trainer will tell you that if you want to most efficiently increase a particular skill (particularly one that need significant amounts of increase), initially doing it in isolation will make the biggest difference. 

Eventually you'll want to work that skill into other drills with other skills...but that should really be after you already have a solid lock on it at a competent level. 

I don't think I've ever shot the FAST more than three times in a row (or more than three times in any day)....and I normally don't shoot it more than once on any particular shooting day.  (I only shot it three times because I was doing one of the p-f.com drills of the week, if I recall correctly.)

The diagnostic drills I listed in my article are all fun to shoot.  But....if you want to get better at shooting skills, just shooting those tests won't help you increase your skills nearly as quickly as if you had instead started by practicing them in isolation.  They'll do something---but there are more efficient ways to increase your skills.
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