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Author Topic: Nice to see our Gov  (Read 3377 times)

Offline Les

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Offline GreggL

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Re: Nice to see our Gov
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2018, 11:43:11 PM »

Off duty police officers being able to carry on school grounds is a step in the right direction. I'ld like to see teachers who have their concealed carry permit also be able to defend themselves and their students.
 
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Offline depserv

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Re: Nice to see our Gov
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2018, 08:40:28 AM »
Hopefully any police officer protecting school kids will not be like the coward who failed to do his duty in the Florida shooting.  Because that possibility always exists, more than one guard is probably a good idea.

I'd like to see some committee, maybe at the federal or state level, come up with a training course and tests, and of course screening criteria, that citizens could take, probably given by the sheriff's department, and once they pass the tests and are screened they are considered qualified to be armed guards in the schools.  The course would have training and tests that are more or less specific to that task.  I like and respect the police, but I do not think there is something magical about being a police officer that makes them the only ones capable of defending schools from a mass killer.

I think there are many men who could do it and have enough spare time to be in the schools as armed guards, and they would probably not even need to be paid, or maybe paid some small amount.  I'd think parents and grandparents of the school kids especially would be more than willing to pay for the course and guard the schools. 

Teachers and other adults working at schools could take the same course and then be qualified to carry.  I think it makes sense to have a dedicated guard whose only job is being a guard, but teachers, principals, coaches, and others like them would be very valuable as a backup to the guard (or guards). 

This kind of thing is workable and would do much to alleviate this plague of mass school shootings we are experiencing.  And for that reason liberal bigots will be strongly against it.  But those who care about the safety of our kids should support the idea.
The liberal cult seeks destruction of the American Republic like water seeks low ground.

Offline Kendahl

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Re: Nice to see our Gov
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2018, 09:14:53 PM »
It's absurd that cops aren't allowed to carry on school property at any time. Although their shift may have ended, they are never 100% "off duty". About a year ago, an FBI agent dropped his kid off at the kid's school in one of Omaha's bedroom suburbs. Someone noticed that he was armed and complained. A sensible reaction would have been, "An FBI agent? Wonderful! Couldn't you have persuaded him to stay all day?"

In my opinion, the educational establishment's antipathy toward firearms is secondary. Their primary objection is to fighting back against violent criminals. Tell an anti-gunner that you don't need a gun as long as you can crack a home invader's skull with your baseball bat. Their reaction will show you their real motivation.

Our governor has also annoyed Democrats by inviting the NRA to hold its convention here if Dallas pulls in the welcome mat. It would be nice if they came to Omaha. I would like to attend once out of curiosity but don't want to make a major trip out of it with hundreds of dollars spent on travel, hotel and meals.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2018, 09:19:26 PM by Kendahl »

Offline Mntnman

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Re: Nice to see our Gov
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2018, 09:25:57 PM »
Hopefully any police officer protecting school kids will not be like the coward who failed to do his duty in the Florida shooting.  Because that possibility always exists, more than one guard is probably a good idea.


We weren't there. Was he supposed to run in blind and get killed like a hero? Would that have been prudent with a handgun against a rifle and possible armor? Does the SWAT team jump out and run in unprepared when they arrive or do they assess the situation?

I am not ready to call him a coward as I am sure I don't know the whole story. I do know that if I was at a mall as an armed civilian and a shooting incident happened, my number one job is to go home to my family, not be a hero.


Offline depserv

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Re: Nice to see our Gov
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2018, 09:24:32 AM »
We weren't there. Was he supposed to run in blind and get killed like a hero? Would that have been prudent with a handgun against a rifle and possible armor? Does the SWAT team jump out and run in unprepared when they arrive or do they assess the situation?

I am not ready to call him a coward as I am sure I don't know the whole story. I do know that if I was at a mall as an armed civilian and a shooting incident happened, my number one job is to go home to my family, not be a hero.

His job was to protect the kids; it's why he was there.  If going home to his family was more important than that he shouldn't have been there. 

We are told that civilians are not competent to defend ourselves but police are, and because we have police to protect us we don't need to bear arms.  But when the time came for this one to do his duty in protecting the kids, he decided to stay out of it.  So all he did was provide a false sense of security, and that false sense of security is used as one of the reasons given that civilians should not be allowed to bear arms in certain places.  And because of that, the death toll was much higher than it otherwise might have been.

What really makes me mad about the whole thing is that his boss blamed the NRA for this mass murder, when his own deputy failed to do his duty, choosing to stand outside while the kids he was there to protect were killed.  His department failed, and because of that failure kids died, and he has the gaul to blame those of us who are trying to allow civilians to hold onto our right to keep and bear arms.  His department's failure showed just how important it is that civilians bear arms, but he tried to pass the blame for his failure onto us.  That piece of trash is one sorry excuse for a human being, and he is the face of gun control, coming after our right to bear arms like some heroic crusader, when his own hands are soaked with the blood of the victims of this crime.

Remember awhile back when a liberal bigot attacked a group of senators on a baseball field with an SKS?  Two police officers armed with handguns advanced on him, across an open field, and took him down.  Other mass killers have been stopped by people with handguns.  Inside a school it is likely that an encounter would take place within pistol range; the rifle is better but the pistol is good enough. 

But if you can so easily say that a pistol isn't good enough, why was the guy who was there for the purpose of protecting the kids not armed with a rifle?  This is not the first time one of these mass shootings has happened.

Think about the coach who gave his life using his body as a human shield to protect kids.  I've been told that he had a concealed carry permit.  Do you think things might have turned out differently if he had been allowed to bear arms?  I do.  But we are told he was not competent to do so because he was not a "trained police officer," and he didn't need to anyway, because our big brother in government had assigned a trained police officer to protect the school.  [For those who like to nitpick, I'm using the term "police officer" in a broad sense here, to refer to any LEO; I know the guy was a sheriff's deputy, not technically a policeman.]

Most of these mass shootings end when the police or someone else with a gun arrive; either they kill the shooter or he sees an armed response coming and he kills himself.  It is almost always an armed response that stops the bad guy.  And this officer was there to provide that armed response.  But somehow this case was different?  The guy there to provide an armed response was not supposed to do it?  Going home to his family was more important than the kids he was there to protect going home to their families?

It should be noted that the first coward was joined by two or three more cowards (I've seen both numbers), and all of them waited outside, cowering in fear as they listened to kids inside being killed.  And all part of the same department run by a hard core anti-gun bigot.  Maybe it was department policy to put the lives of department members above the lives of those they pretend to be there to protect.  But let's all turn in our guns, and wait for them to come and protect us. 

If you are at a mall and there is an active shooter, protecting your own family and yourself might be your first priority; that's your choice.  I might do the same thing, who knows; I might even end up curled up on the ground sucking my thumb, paralyzed in fear.  But you and I are not assigned to be the protectors of the people in the mall.  And no one is being told that they have no reason to bear arms because you and I are there to protect them.

This deputy was paid over $75,000 a year to be there to protect the kids (probably more like $100,000 or more if you include benefits).  He did other things too but being there in the case of an active shooter was his main job.  The people in that community had been led to believe that they were paying for someone to protect their kids.  And they had every right to expect that man to do the job he was there to do.

President Trump called that deputy a coward, and I think he was fully justified in doing so.  The man has no honor, and should be treated accordingly.  All those who are paid to be our protectors should see how they will be treated if they fail to do their duty out of cowardice.  If they think going home to their family is more important than doing their duty then someone else should be in their place, and they should be cooking hamburgers or something.
The liberal cult seeks destruction of the American Republic like water seeks low ground.

Offline Dan W

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Re: Nice to see our Gov
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2018, 09:45:10 AM »
Post Columbine active shooter protocol requires first on scene to enter immediately to isolate and distract the shooter and stop the killing as quckly as possible.

A quick search will provide one with all the details of active shooter response training
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Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.   J. F. K.

Offline Mntnman

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Re: Nice to see our Gov
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2018, 10:08:10 AM »
Post Columbine active shooter protocol requires first on scene to enter immediately to isolate and distract the shooter and stop the killing as quckly as possible.

A quick search will provide one with all the details of active shooter response training

You assume he had the training. He definitely should but that doesn’t mean he did. Sounds to me like the first officer to arrive didn’t run right in either.

Offline Mntnman

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Re: Nice to see our Gov
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2018, 10:18:21 AM »
His job was to protect the kids; it's why he was there.  If going home to his family was more important than that he shouldn't have been there

This deputy was paid over $75,000 a year to be there to protect the kids.

I shouldn’t have confused you with what I would need to do and what he needed to do. Like I said, we weren’t there and don’t know to what extent he participated. I think it is probably fair to let the truth come out before condemning a man that has to be feeling about as awful as one can. I would extend the same courtesy to you.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 10:21:41 AM by Mntnman »

Offline Mntnman

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Re: Nice to see our Gov
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2018, 10:25:30 AM »
As for Trump calling him a coward, his signature move is to speak before thinking. I am a bit more thoughtful before shooting my mouth off, no pun intended.

Offline Dan W

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Re: Nice to see our Gov
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2018, 11:46:22 AM »
You assume he had the training. He definitely should but that doesn’t mean he did. Sounds to me like the first officer to arrive didn’t run right in either.
Are you assuming an accredited police officer has not received active shooter training in the last 19 years?
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Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.   J. F. K.

Offline Mntnman

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Re: Nice to see our Gov
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2018, 12:05:53 PM »
Are you assuming an accredited police officer has not received active shooter training in the last 19 years?

I’m saying that I don’t know and nobody has shown either way.

Offline depserv

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Re: Nice to see our Gov
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2018, 12:10:10 PM »
I shouldn’t have confused you with what I would need to do and what he needed to do. Like I said, we weren’t there and don’t know to what extent he participated. I think it is probably fair to let the truth come out before condemning a man that has to be feeling about as awful as one can. I would extend the same courtesy to you.

You didn't confuse me my friend.  I exposed the confusion in your statement.

We know enough about what he didn't do to form the opinion I formed.

He should feel awful.  And he should be publicly condemned, as a warning to others who might find themselves in the same situation and might want to do what he did.

It wouldn't be so bad if we were not being told that we are not competent to bear arms but policemen are, and we don't need to anyway, because the government has hired people to protect us.
The liberal cult seeks destruction of the American Republic like water seeks low ground.

Offline Mntnman

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Re: Nice to see our Gov
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2018, 12:26:52 PM »
Well I don’t think you know as much as you assume. His version of what happened differs from your assumptions and judgement in haste is reckless.

His version according to his lawyer:

DiRuzzo claims Sheriff Israel omitted facts.

He wrote:

Peterson initially “received a call of firecrackers — and not gunfire — in the area of the 1200 Building.”
In response to the firecracker call Mr. Peterson along “with Security Specialist Kelvin Greenleaf exited the 100 Building and ran north the couple of hundred yards to the 1200 Building.”
Upon arriving at 1200 Building Mr. Peterson “heard gunshots but believed that those gunshots were originating from outside of any of the buildings on the school campus.”
BSO trains its officers that in the event of outdoor gunfire one is to seek cover and assess the situation in order to communicate what one observes to other law enforcement.
Consistent with his training, Mr. Peterson “took up a tactical position between the 700-800 buildings corridor/corner.”
Peterson was the first BSO officer to advise BSO dispatch that he heard shots fired.
Peterson “initiated a ‘Code Red’ lockdown of the entire school campus.”
“The first police officer that arrived on-scene was from the Coral Springs Police Department.” Mr. Peterson informed this Coral Springs Police Officer that he “thought that the shots were coming from outside.” This Coral Springs Police Officer took up a tactical position (approximately twenty yards away from Mr. Peterson) behind a tree with his rifle.
“Radio transmissions indicated that there was a gunshot victim in the area of the football field,” which served to confirm Mr. Peterson’s belief “that the shooter, or shooters, were outside.”
Peterson had the presence of mind to have the school administrators go to the school’s video room to review the closed-circuit cameras to locate the shooter and obtain a description for law enforcement.
Peterson provided his keys to the Coral Springs SWAT team so that they could enter the 1200 Building.
Peterson “provided BSO SWAT Command with handwritten diagrams of the entire Stoneman Douglas campus for student evacuation.”

 I would give you the same benefit of doubt that I am asking you to have. All Monday quarterbacks are all stars.

Offline Dan W

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Re: Nice to see our Gov
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2018, 12:43:37 PM »
I’m saying that I don’t know and nobody has shown either way.
the man's boss says he should have gone in and "killed the killer" on the record
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Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.   J. F. K.

Offline Mntnman

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Re: Nice to see our Gov
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2018, 12:59:02 PM »
the man's boss says he should have gone in and "killed the killer" on the record

My boss says a lot of s#, too.  I refer you to my post above and thank God that he made me with the ability to reason logically and not emotionally. At the end of the day, you weren’t there and the real story isn’t known yet.

Offline Mntnman

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Re: Nice to see our Gov
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2018, 01:22:46 PM »
It’s possible that you two have been hooked by the neurolinguistic programming being used and now he can only be seen as a coward. What would be wrong about having an open mind? What is the threat to you?  I know you both are aware of biased media reporting, why are you so convinced that you clearly know the circumstances?

Offline depserv

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Re: Nice to see our Gov
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2018, 01:34:09 PM »
It’s possible that you two have been hooked by the neurolinguistic programming being used and now he can only be seen as a coward. What would be wrong about having an open mind? What is the threat to you?  I know you both are aware of biased media reporting, why are you so convinced that you clearly know the circumstances?
He was there to protect the kids and he didn't.  Of course he's going to come up with a story to make himself look good. But nothing he claims changes the sad truth that he was the one placed there for the protection of those kids and he stayed outside and did nothing while the kids were being killed inside.  I would be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt if any doubt existed, but none does.
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Offline Mntnman

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Re: Nice to see our Gov
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2018, 01:46:58 PM »
He was there to protect the kids and he didn't.  Of course he's going to come up with a story to make himself look good. But nothing he claims changes the sad truth that he was the one placed there for the protection of those kids and he stayed outside and did nothing while the kids were being killed inside.  I would be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt if any doubt existed, but none does.

Yeah,  because you were there, smh. So sad that you have such a closed mind.


Offline Mntnman

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Re: Nice to see our Gov
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2018, 01:51:00 PM »