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Author Topic: Flat top AR question.  (Read 2612 times)

Offline KGillen

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Flat top AR question.
« on: July 11, 2010, 05:25:00 PM »
Next tax season I am planning on purchasing my first AR. I am looking to pick up a flat-top for ease of mounting an optic, chrome lined barrel, chambered in 5.56 and perhaps with a lighter trigger. I am looking in the price range of $1100-$1300. I have looked extensively at a Bushmaster but am not sure (as I have no working knowledge of the different brands available). I've shot a couple from dpms, but have heard of quality issues with these. Was wondering if anyone out there had any experience with something along those lines. I'm not looking to win any competitions, but something that will make a decent group at a decent range would be nice...having read all this I think I may be asking too much for too little. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
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Offline bkoenig

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Re: Flat top AR question.
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2010, 06:50:15 PM »
Spikes Tactical has been getting rave reviews and it's pretty affordable.  Looks like their site is down right now - http://www.spikestactical.com/ but I think you can pick up a complete flat top M4 upper for around $500 or a complete rifle for around $700.  I have no experience with them but they're supposed to be top of the line.
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Offline KGillen

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Re: Flat top AR question.
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2010, 09:05:11 PM »
Thank you, checked them out. I failed to mention I'd like a 20" barrel, didn't see any of those. Other ideas?

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Re: Flat top AR question.
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2010, 09:09:27 PM »
I do perfer the Smith/Wesson MP-15 over the DPMS and when I reloaded rounds the MP-15 did much better in tighter moa grouping than the dpms and I do like the quality more so on the MP than the DPMS here's a link farmerrick posted from the good deals thread and yes the prices are great...http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/cdnn/Special.jpg
 Farmerrick finds some real good deals thanks Rick....
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Offline David Hineline

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Re: Flat top AR question.
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2010, 11:36:38 PM »
Do you know that DPMS and Bushmaster and the Remingtion type ARs are all owned by the same company?
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Offline KGillen

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Re: Flat top AR question.
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2010, 12:14:55 AM »
I knew about DPMS and Bushmaster, but not Remington. I guess the people I talk to look at DPMS as the lesser brand, dunno if that makes any sense.
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Offline bkoenig

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Re: Flat top AR question.
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2010, 07:03:08 AM »
Bravo Company has some great deals on uppers right now.  You have to add handguards and bolt carrier, but you're still looking at just a little over $500.
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Offline Dan W

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Re: Flat top AR question.
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2010, 07:02:23 PM »
2nd for Bravo Company. http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/ Their BCM brand is top notch. I also highly recommend PK Firearms http://www.pkfirearms.com/, and I like their Sabre Defence line. They also carry Noveske if you want to go all the way to the top.

I have a lot of RRA stuff and I really like it. Bought it all from Adco Firearms http://www.adcofirearms.com/, and they are my go to AR15 machinist and gunsmith if I just can't figure out a way to do it myself.

I would suggest you build up your own lower with the trigger you prefer, and purchase a complete upper. Best Lower parts kits are RRA, Stag. DPMS kits are fair quality at least the 1 I have used.

I recommend an RRA match 2 stage trigger at the minimum, and the Geissele SSA 2 stage would be my best recommendation.

I highly recommend Magpul stocks, grips and accessories I use CTR's on all 3 of mine and Magpul Pmag magazines. I recommend the mil spec extension tube as you have more choices that way. 


Best Lower parts kits are RRA, Stag. DPMS kits are fair quality at least the 1 I have used.


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Offline OnTheFly

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Re: Flat top AR question.
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2010, 07:48:05 PM »
I don't have any experience from ownership (I'm an AR15 flat top owner-wanna be myself), but I've read a lot of good things about http://www.del-ton.com/, http://jtdistributing.net/index.html, and http://www.star15.com/index.html.

Fly
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Offline FarmerRick

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Re: Flat top AR question.
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2010, 09:39:40 PM »
You can save anywhere from $100 to over $300 on an AR by assembling one yourself in most cases, but there are a couple smoking deals out there right now on complete rifles.  It all depends on how fancy you want your first AR to be.

Yes, I said "first AR"...there will be more after BRD sets in(Black Rifle Disease).   >:D
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Offline OnTheFly

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Re: Flat top AR question.
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2010, 10:34:16 PM »
Quote from: FarmerRick on July 12, 2010, 09:39:40 PM
You can save anywhere from $100 to over $300 on an AR by assembling one yourself in most cases, but there are a couple smoking deals out there right now on complete rifles.  It all depends on how fancy you want your first AR to be.

Yes, I said "first AR"...there will be more after BRD sets in(Black Rifle Disease).   >:D

I've never wanted a disease as badly as I want BRD.   ;D

Fly
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Offline Hardwood83

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Re: Flat top AR question.
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2010, 11:18:36 PM »
First of all  'Next tax season'? Wow, way to plan ahead- I don't have a 20" but have 1st hand experience with Stag, Rock River & Doublestar and recommend all 3 without reservation. They are what some would consider second tier rifles, but I love them and they do all I require.

As others have mentioned there are a ton of options, I've read good things about Bravo & Spike's too-btw does that budget include the optic? Either way I think you can do very well for what you're looking to spend.
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Offline KGillen

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Re: Flat top AR question.
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2010, 01:51:10 AM »
Quote from: Hardwood83 on July 12, 2010, 11:18:36 PM
First of all  'Next tax season'? Wow, way to plan ahead

Yeah, thank you...it was supposed to be purchased with my most recent return in addition to some cash I had been squirreling away...but alas, my fiancee talked me into putting it down on a house with the understanding that I would get the $1000 I was using from my check plus the $300 I had in pennies, bringing me back to my budget early next year. So to answer your question...I guess the optic may or may not be included in the budget depending on what I get.

I have spent most of my day/evening online looking at rifles (nothing really new for me I guess), only this time I was actually considering building it. I have heard some excellent suggestions (thank you all btw), and checked into most of them, you really can save some cash doing it yourself and from what I've read it's pretty simple. I had nearly decided on an RRA Complete Lower w/A2 Stock Two Stage Trigger with an Olympic arms  A3 Flattop Upper for around $1000 without shipping and transfer fee...but now I'm not sure because I can pick up the Colt mt6700c for around $1200...and its a COLT...lol. Decisions decisions...good thing I have a few months.
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Offline unfy

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Re: Flat top AR question.
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2010, 04:47:11 AM »
Akin to an old IT phrase - no one ever got fired for buying Microsoft/oracle (or colt  >:D)
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Offline Dan W

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Re: Flat top AR question.
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2010, 07:47:49 PM »
I would be leery of Olympic's spotty quality control. You could get a good one or a very bad one

I don't own any Colt's, but I definitely would consider one if the price is right.

You would still need to upgrade the trigger on a factory Colt, as they are no better than any other GI item

« Last Edit: July 13, 2010, 07:50:19 PM by Dan W »
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Offline Roper

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Re: Flat top AR question.
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2010, 11:02:35 PM »
I have a 20" DPMS w/ iron sites and have hit iron targets at 300 yards.  Also have a Smith and Wesson M&P,  I seem to be able to put a tighter pattern together with it.  Good luck w/ your first one, they are a lot of fun to shoot!!!
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Offline m0par

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Re: Flat top AR question.
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2010, 06:35:59 PM »
Quote from: Dan W on July 13, 2010, 07:47:49 PM
You would still need to upgrade the trigger on a factory Colt, as they are no better than any other GI item

You ain't just whistling dixie. I bought one Colt lower and it has the worst trigger I've ever felt in an AR. Plenty adequate for its intended use though, I'm sure.
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Offline KGillen

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Re: Flat top AR question.
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2010, 03:25:49 PM »
Well, I have narrowed it down to 2 options. Either the Colt or build my own, I'm looking at an Armalite complete lower with a 2 stage match trigger, and a Bushmaster 20" flat top upper. The thought of building it excites me as well as the fact that it has standard pins...but then again, the Colt is a Colt.
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Offline SeanN

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Re: Flat top AR question.
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2010, 03:19:44 PM »
Only two brands I ever tell people to stay away from are Olympic Arms and Hess/Blackthorne/Vulcan (changed their name more times than anyone can count because their product is so terrible).

I have a Bushmaster and it's treated me well. But, if I could do it all over again, I'd go for a Bravo Company, Spike's Tactical, or Daniel Defense rifle. Why? Full mil-spec or better on every single piece. Does the average user need that? Probably not, but it certainly is nice to have it if the proverbial s**t hits the fan. Also, they're about the same price or slightly more expensive. Why not get the best quality you can for your dollar?

A few links for your viewing pleasure:
Bravo Company 20" Barreled Upper Receiver: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-M16-Government-20-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-gov-20.htm at $385.00
Add the bolt carrier group and charging handle on the same page for $135.00.
Rifle Length Handguards: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/rifle-Length-Handguards-Black-p/handguards%20rifle%20length%20black.htm for $19.95
Bravo Company Complete Lower Reciever: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Lower-Receiver-Groups-M4-AR15-s/117.htm for $360 with A2 fixed stock or M4 collapsible stock

Comes out to about $900 and it will be one of the best darn AR-15's you'll ever own in your life. What more can you ask for?  :dink:

Edited to say I think you should really go with the A2 fixed stock with a 20" barrel build. Firstly because it's probably going to be more comfortable/natural with such a long barrel and secondly because it will come with the rifle buffer tube and buffer instead of the carbine buffer tube and buffer. I imagine it would function "ok" with the carbine ones but it may not. The carbine tube and buffer were designed for the 14.5" M4 barrel and work well up to about 18". 20" barrels with rifle length gas systems could potentially have some problems unless you go with a heavier carbine buffer (H3 or Spike's ST-T2 would be about the same weight of the standard rifle buffer).
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 12:55:34 AM by SeanN »
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Offline Famous556

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Re: Flat top AR question.
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2010, 11:42:46 PM »
Quote from: SeanN on July 20, 2010, 03:19:44 PM
Only two brands I ever tell people to stay away from are Olympic Arms and Hess/Blackthorne/Vulcan (changed their name more times than anyone can count because their product is so terrible).

I have a Bushmaster and it's treated me well. But, if I could do it all over again, I'd go for a Bravo Company, Spike's Tactical, or Daniel Defense rifle. Why? Full mil-spec or better on every single piece. Does the average user need that? Probably not, but it certainly is nice to have it if the proverbial s**t hits the fan. Also, they're about the same price or slightly more expensive. Why not get the best quality you can for your dollar?

A few links for your viewing pleasure:
Bravo Company 20" Barreled Upper Receiver: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-M16-Government-20-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-gov-20.htm at $385.00
Add the bolt carrier group and charging handle on the same page for $135.00.
Rifle Length Handguards: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/rifle-Length-Handguards-Black-p/handguards%20rifle%20length%20black.htm for $19.95
Bravo Company Complete Lower Reciever: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Lower-Receiver-Groups-M4-AR15-s/117.htm for $360 with A2 fixed stock or M4 collapsible stock

Comes out to about $900 and it will be one of the best darn AR-15's you'll ever own in your life. What more can you ask for?  :dink:


This is the best advice in this thread.  BCM rifles and parts are top notch, I have been playing with my new BCM 16" barrel upper with a mid length gas system and the quality is superb.  They do everything right and don't take shortcuts anywhere like some other manufacturers.  All of that to the tune of $900 and you can't go wrong.   
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