Think trusts are the answer, prepare to get scrutinized.

[David Hineline]

Date: 12/17/10 18:57

[Federal Register: December 15, 2010 (Volume 75, Number 240)]
[Notices]
[Page 78268]
From the Federal Register Online via GPO Access [wais.access.gpo.gov]
[DOCID:fr15de10-84]

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DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

[OMB Number 1140-NEW]

Agency Information Collection Activities: Proposed Collection;
Comments Requested

ACTION: 60-Day Notice of Information Collection Under Review: Letter
Requesting Supporting Documents Identifying a Legal Entity.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

The Department of Justice (DOJ), Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
Firearms and Explosives (ATF), will be submitting the following
information collection request to the Office of Management and Budget
(OMB) for review and approval in accordance with the Paperwork
Reduction Act of 1995. This notice requests comments from the public
and affected agencies concerning the proposed information collection.
Comments are encouraged and will be accepted on or before February 14,
2011. This process is conducted in accordance with 5 CFR 1320.10.

If you have comments especially on the estimated public burden or
associated response time, suggestions, or need a copy of the proposed
information collection instrument with instructions or additional
information, please contact Gary Schaible, Gary.Schiable@atf.gov
National Firearms Act Branch, 99 New York Avenue, NE., Washington, DC
20226 Fax (202) 648-9601.

Written comments and suggestions from the public and affected
agencies concerning the proposed information collection are encouraged.
Your comments should address one or more of the following four points:

--Evaluate whether the proposed collection of information is necessary
for the proper performance of the functions of the agency's including
whether the information will have practical utility;
--Evaluate the accuracy of the agency's estimate of the burden of the
proposed collection of information, including the validity of the
methodology and assumptions used;
--Enhance the quality, utility, and clarity of the information to be
collected; and
--Minimize the burden of the collection of information on those who are
to respond, including through the use of appropriate automated,
electronic, mechanical, or other technological collection techniques or
other forms of information technology, e.g., permitting electronic
submission of responses.

Summary of Collection:

(1) Type of Information Collection: New.

(2) Title of the Form/Collection: Letter Requesting Supporting
Documents Identifying a Legal Entity.

(3) Agency form number, if any, and the applicable component of the
Department of Justice sponsoring the collection: Form Number: None.
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

(4) Affected public who will be asked or required to respond:

Primary: Business or other for-profit.

Other: None.

Need for Collection: The collection of information will be used to
determine the lawful existence and validity of a legal entity before
ATF approves the transfer of an NFA firearm to that entity.

(5) An estimate of the total number of respondents and the amount
of time estimated for an average respondent to respond: It is estimated
that 5,000 respondents will spend approximately 30 minutes to compile
documentation requested by the letter.

(6) An estimate of the total public burden (in hours) associated
with the collection: There are an estimated 5,000 annual total burden
hours associated with this collection.

If additional information is required contact: Lynn Murray,
Department Clearance Officer, Policy and Planning Staff, Justice
Management Division, Department of Justice, 2 Constitution Square, Room
2E-502, 145 N Street, NE., Washington, DC 20530.

Dated: December 9, 2010.
Lynn Murray,
Department Clearance Officer, PRA, U.S. Department of Justice.
[FR Doc. 2010-31401 Filed 12-14-10; 8:45 am]
BILLING CODE 4410-FY-P

[A-FIXER]

So............ the this mean Dave that the business and for profit co's are the bearer of the burden and if the average joe applies for it may be declined if the transferer is unable to show the NFA item orgin after DEC 2010. Can you enlighten us somemore?

[bkoenig]

Sounds to me like they're going to actually start ruling on whether your trust is valid when you apply, which may actually be a good thing.  My understanding now is that they don't examine the trust to determine whether it's valid, so you can be approved with an invalid trust, and they can come after you for that later.  If they make the determination up front it could save a lot of hassle.  I don't speak lawyer, though.  Interesting timing since I just sent in my first Form 1 this morning.....

[A-FIXER]

Sounds to me like they're going to actually start ruling on whether your trust is valid when you apply, which may actually be a good thing.  My understanding now is that they don't examine the trust to determine whether it's valid, so you can be approved with an invalid trust, and they can come after you for that later.  If they make the determination up front it could save a lot of hassle.  I don't speak lawyer, though.  Interesting timing since I just sent in my first Form 1 this morning.....

Your going to be our NFOA tested I guess.

[bkoenig]

Your going to be our NFOA tested I guess.

Well, if it gets kicked back I guess I need to find an alternate residence to register it, since Herr Casady refuses to sign off on NFA items.

[Rob Androyna]

At worst this means the form 4's done with the trust will take a little longer to get approved. As long as your trust is a valid trust there will be no issues. You always have the option to register the trust, but is is not required in our state.

Register A Living Trust
Some states require living trust registration, and you need to be aware of which states have a requirement, as well as how thoroughly they enforce this rule.


Some people have asked if it is necessary to register a living trust with some government agency. As you know, one of the reasons for preparing a Living Trust is to maintain your privacy. Your living trust never needs to become a matter of public record. (The only document you may want to record is a deed that transfers real estate to the trust.)

Some states, however, require that the trustee of a trust register the trust with the local probate court. But there are no legal consequences or penalties if you don't which, in effect, means this is an optional requirement.

When you register a living trust, it doesn't give the court any power over the administration of the trust, unless there is a dispute. For example, if after your death, a beneficiary wants to object to the way your successor trustee distributed the trust property. But if you don't register your living trust, the result is the same: the court still has jurisdiction if a disgruntled relative or creditor files suit. (The only exception is that if a court demands that a trustee register a trust, and the trustee refuses, the trustee can be removed.)

To register a revocable living trust, you don't have to put the whole trust document on file. You only need to file a statement with some information about who the trustee is, etc. The statement must be filed with the court where the trustee resides or keeps the trust records. The statement should include at least the following:

1.The name(s) of the grantor(s);

2.The name(s) of the original trustee(s);

3.An acknowledgment of the trusteeship (that is, a written acceptance by the trustees of their role); and

4.The date of the trust document.

A trust can be registered in only one state at a time. The states that provide for registration of Living Trusts are:

?Alaska

?Colorado (registration of a revocable living trust is not required until the grantor's death and no registration required if all trust property is distributed to the beneficiaries then).

?Florida (not mandatory)

?Hawaii

?Idaho

?Maine

?Michigan

?Nebraska (not mandatory)

?New Mexico

?North Dakota

[A-FIXER]

Thank you Rob, for answering my private message to you and clearing up this. Well gang, it is quick answers from people and members of the NFOA such as Rob to keep this type of info straight for us and knowing we can depend on him for all of our class 3 purchases and questions.    MERRY CHRISTMAS

[Burnsy87]

Interesting timing since I just sent in my first Form 1 this morning.....

Yep, just sent my Form 1 back to Rob today.  We'll see what our results are, eh?

[David Hineline]

Why would someone doing a form 1 with themselves as the maker run the forms through a NFA dealer?

[Rob Androyna]

Why would someone doing a form 1 with themselves as the maker run the forms through a NFA dealer?

Because they just want the piece of mind that the forms have all been done correctly. It's just a basic service that Exeter Arms offers it's customers.

[David Hineline]

I guess I am just more used to an experienced NFA customer.  Helping is a good thing I guess.

[David Hineline]

My reccomendation would be to have your home filed NFA trusts reveiwed by a legal professional to make sure they are valid.

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/

 

[Burnsy87]

Interesting timing since I just sent in my first Form 1 this morning.....

Yep, just sent my Form 1 back to Rob today.  We'll see what our results are, eh?

Quick update:  ATF deposited my check yesterday the 19th.

How does this process, from their end, work?  That mean they are finally starting it, or have they done anything with it?

[ghknives]

My last transfer required almost 4 months after the check was deposited.

[bkoenig]

I'm going on a month since my check was cashed.  I've heard everything from 30 days to 6 months, I think it just depends on how busy they happen to be at the time.

[Rob Androyna]

NFA told me to tell customers to expect a 3-9 month wait. 3 months is rare, 9 months is unheard of. 4 months is about normal. it can stretch out a little depending on volume.

[Burnsy87]

Okay, thanks Rob.

Any word on when you're getting the new YHM Phantom models in?