Sarpy County Man Accidentally Shoots Himself

[sjwsti]

http://www.ketv.com/news/26857092/detail.html

SARPY COUNTY, Neb. -- The Sarpy County Sheriff's Office investigated an accidental shooting late Sunday night.

Deputies were called to 145th and Borman streets just after 11 p.m.

Investigators said the male victim noticed people near his vehicle and went outside with a gun. When he went back inside, he accidentally shot himself in the leg.

He was taken to a local hospital by rescue squad, deputies said.

[SemperFiGuy]

Bad Karma..........

See People Outside Near Your Car, Call 911.

And Your Insurance Agent.

Stay Inside, With Gun.

[Duty to Retreat, and All That.]

Otherwise, Somebody Might Need Emergency Medical Service from Shawn.   Might be Car Owner, Who Shoulda Stayed Inside.   And Called 911.


sfg
[If Those Outside Bust Inside, Entirely Different Set of Rules and Behaviors Apply.]

[sjwsti]

Bad Karma..........

See People Outside Near Your Car, Call 911.

And Your Insurance Agent.

Stay Inside, With Gun.

[Duty to Retreat, and All That.]

Otherwise, Somebody Might Need Emergency Medical Service from Shawn.   Might be Car Owner, Who Shoulda Stayed Inside.   And Called 911.


sfg
[If Those Outside Bust Inside, Entirely Different Set of Rules and Behaviors Apply.]

My thoughts exactly SFG.

Though I would like to hear from one of our legal experts on the statute regarding the Use of force to protect property. How would it apply (or not) in this situation. What circumstances need to be present for it to be lawful? Figure this is a perfect time to stimulate some discussion about what is, to me at least, a confusing section of the law.

- Shawn

 

[Dan W]

Ain't none here to hear from...all we can do is read the law and try to make sense of it

[Lorimor]

You were safe in your house?  No threat to you whatsoever?  You then went outside, with a gun?  What, were you looking for trouble?   Were you looking for a fight?  

Also, KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET!!!!  DON'T POINT THE MUZZLE AT ANYTHING YOU DON'T WISH TO DESTROY (OR PAY FOR)!!!

This is just red meat for the anti's.  


Edited  post-       Dial it back a notch or two...Admin

[Husker_Fan]

My understanding is the man had a family in the house.  Question his choice to go outside or his gun handling, but from what I know he is an OIF vet so let's please avoid the name calling.

[bullit]

Being a Vet (which I am one) is not an excuse.  Won't call him any names, but won't give him a "free pass" for being negligent.
Shawn raises an interesting point about the statute in Nebraska.  I was involved in a group conversation with a nameless associate of Signal 88 who made a pretty logical argument for the use of force to protect property.  Again he based it upon what current statute says in Nebraska.  Our example were some thugs beating the crap our of your collector Mustang whilst sitting in a parking garage.
We did agree it would be an expensive venture through the legal system both monetarily and personally.  

[JimP]

While it is a shame we can't protect our property, going out armed is a prudent thing, if you are going to go out.  They may move on when they see that you are watching them...... if not, you can tell them you called the police (which you should have).  If they continue to engage in their theft of vandalism, be a good witness.  If they have a problem with you being witness, and threaten you with bodily harm ..... well then, it sucks to be them.

[NE Bull]

While it is a shame we can't protect our property, going out armed is a prudent thing, if you are going to go out.  They may move on when they see that you are watching them...... if not, you can tell them you called the police (which you should have).  If they continue to engage in their theft of vandalism, be a good witness.  If they have a problem with you being witness, and threaten you with bodily harm ..... well then, it sucks to be them.

+1
I'll throw some words of wisdom from my dad: "Don't start a fight, but if someone else starts it, you damn well better finish it!"

[FarmerRick]

I'm having trouble finding the updated story now, but it appears this took place at an apartment complex.  The guy supposedly had a pistol-gripped shotgun under his coat and shot himself when he went back into his apartment and tried to remove it from under his coat.  Shotgun blast to his leg, and is in either serious or critical condition.

Since it appears that opinions are no longer allowed to be stated of current events related to proper gun handling on this forum, well.....  I guess I'll just bite my tongue.   

[Dan W]

 Member agreement states the following...

You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, flaming, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, adult material, or otherwise in violation of any International or United States Federal law.

If you can opine without violating that agreement, then knock yourself out

[Lorimor]

While it is a shame we can't protect our property, going out armed is a prudent thing, if you are going to go out.  They may move on when they see that you are watching them...... if not, you can tell them you called the police (which you should have).  If they continue to engage in their theft of vandalism, be a good witness.  If they have a problem with you being witness, and threaten you with bodily harm ..... well then, it sucks to be them.

Have you not now just escalated the situation?  I remember a key phrase from the CCW class,  "Permit holders are held to a higher legal standard since they're armed with lethal force."  Hmmm....  

Avoid, evade, de-escalate....  

Confront?  I'm not so sure about that one.  

[Husker_Fan]

I wasn't trying to stifle discussion, and I don't know the man personally.  I do know people who do, however, and even the Omaha metro is a small community.  I was just stating my opinion about name calling.  The guy obviously made several bad decisions regarding his gun handling.

I may not have made the same decision to go outside, but I wasn't there.  Going outside to figure out what is happening is IMHO not escalating the situation, especially if your weapon is concealed.  IMHO Encouraging those who are damaging or stealing your property to leave (without the use of force including displaying a weapon) would not be escalating the situation either.  If the vandals/burglars are out there and they threaten the person who went outside, it is not a defense of property issue.  It has become a self-defense situation like any other that is discussed here.

Of course, I am not the County Attorney who will make the decision of whether or not to charge someone.

[Lorimor]

Let's just say I don't have a lot of faith in our judicial system.  

Playing this over in my mind, I can full well imagine the prosecution asking, "So you were safe in your home, yet you went outside?  ARMED? Were you HOPING for a fight?"

Personally, I think we have a right to defend home n' hearth.  However, given our upside down societal values in our increasingly hopey changey world, if bullets start flying in the above scenario, the defender may well find themselves in the crosshairs of the prosecution, provided of course, they survive the original encounter.  And I needn't explain that the jury will not be made up of "NRA types."

Who knows how the vandal punks will react?  Most likely they'll run, whether they see a weapon or not.  Then again, they may not.  There may be several and maybe they're all armed and willing to trade shots.  Who knows?



 

[DaveB]

If someone is messing with my property, I am going out to get them away from it and off of my property. I do not have to idly stand by and watch it happen. Until I know what is going on, I am not required to call the police. Should they not immediately leave, my obligation is to first call the police, then make me and my family safe. I will not confront anyone on my property unarmed, I am not breaking any laws by carrying a gun on my property. Should the thugs turn towards me, I have done nothing to escalate the problem, they did. Then they will find that I was more prepared than they were. Bring on the DA and the jury, I will be ready for them also, everyone on every jury has had vandalism of one sort or another. The only ones that would hold it against someone for protecting their own would be the proud parents of the ones that got in trouble for it.

[DanClrk51]

If someone is messing with my property, I am going out to get them away from it and off of my property. I do not have to idly stand by and watch it happen. Until I know what is going on, I am not required to call the police. Should they not immediately leave, my obligation is to first call the police, then make me and my family safe. I will not confront anyone on my property unarmed, I am not breaking any laws by carrying a gun on my property. Should the thugs turn towards me, I have done nothing to escalate the problem, they did. Then they will find that I was more prepared than they were. Bring on the DA and the jury, I will be ready for them also, everyone on every jury has had vandalism of one sort or another. The only ones that would hold it against someone for protecting their own would be the proud parents of the ones that got in trouble for it.

......Hear Hear!
I was housesitting a friends house back in August when they went on vacation and I went and read up on Nebraska's entire statute in regards to Use of Force, Protection of Property etc. and the way I saw it was that you can't use deadly force to protect property unless several conditions applied. Basically in a nutshell the way i read it you can protect your property with deadly force indirectly once there is a threat to your person (serious bodily injury or death). So yeah, if i see someone messing with my vehicle I will darn well walk out there with my concealed sidearm at my side (in a holster preferably) and tell them to get the freak away from my vehicle and off my property. There's only 3 options for them at that point: 1. They run away...situation defused. 2. They ignore me and continue breaking into my vehicle....in which the wisest thing to do is call the cops and be a good witness while also not turning your back on them....3. They advance towards me in a threatening manner, or pull a weapon of some sort. At that point I will draw my weapon and point it at them and demand they cease and desist and if they continue advancement they will be sent to the Supreme Principal's office

[JimP]

While it is a shame we can't protect our property, going out armed is a prudent thing, if you are going to go out.  They may move on when they see that you are watching them...... if not, you can tell them you called the police (which you should have).  If they continue to engage in their theft of vandalism, be a good witness.  If they have a problem with you being witness, and threaten you with bodily harm ..... well then, it sucks to be them.


Have you not now just escalated the situation?  I remember a key phrase from the CCW class,  "Permit holders are held to a higher legal standard since they're armed with lethal force."  Hmmm....   

Avoid, evade, de-escalate.... 

Confront?  I'm not so sure about that one. 

I'm not sure that would be escalating the situation.  Threatening them would be.

They advance towards me in a threatening manner, or pull a weapon of some sort. At that point I will draw my weapon and point it at them and demand they cease and desist

I'm thinking that if they pull a weapon, you better be moving and shooting, as they are one step ahead of you already: they have a weapon out and you have not drawn yours yet.  Draw at this point and if they have a gun, you are trying to "beat the drop" ..... you'll get shot doing that.

Priority is not get shot: Move.  Don't get stabbed or clubbed either.  Move. Create distance.  Be a difficult target. Move and shoot if he has a gun.

[ComputerCowboy]

Hey now, I thought we resolved that "duty to retreat" business and it was voted out?

My thoughts exactly SFG.

Though I would like to hear from one of our legal experts on the statute regarding the Use of force to protect property. How would it apply (or not) in this situation. What circumstances need to be present for it to be lawful? Figure this is a perfect time to stimulate some discussion about what is, to me at least, a confusing section of the law.

- Shawn

 

[sjwsti]

Hey now, I thought we resolved that "duty to retreat" business and it was voted out?

If your refering to LB298, it has a ways to go yet before it becomes law. You can check its status here http://nebraskalegislature.gov/bills/view_bill.php?DocumentID=12118

- Shawn