How about an interesting new topic for discussion

[AAllen]

There are things we can learn hear, questions to be asked of ourselves and the Laws here in Nebraska.

http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/132311553.html

[DaveB]

From what I read there, he will be charged with murder. He took aggression and the law into his own hands and committed a crime. Too bad, at least one scumbag won't be causing any more trouble.

[Dan W]

Andrew Rothman, a Twin Cities firearms trainer and vice president of the Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance, said Friday that if the events unfolded as the armed citizen described, "the permit holder acted appropriately. Chasing the mugger to recover the purse or to effect a citizen's arrest is permitted by law."
And, if Evanovich "then escalated by pointing and/or shooting at the good Samaritan, the good Samaritan would have been completely justified in shooting," Rothman said.

[bullit]

Its going to cost him a fortune to find out.....

[NENick]

.

[AAllen]

Would I recommend that anyone do what was done here, my opinion does not matter.  The decision to interseed in a criminal act against another (non family) is very personal, I will let the CCW instructors discuss that.

That said from this article (based upon the shooters story only) we can see two differences between Minnesota Law and Nebraska.  First there is no duty to retreat, they have a self defence law that is working.  Next in Minnesota a "Citizen" can pursue and make an arrest for a criminal act, this is another thing we can not due in Nebraska.

We of course are working on the Victim Protection Act and it is a priority for the NFOA, but should we be taking a moment to look at citizen arrest laws.  I would not want to try to bring it up at the same time as the Victim Protection Act but is there something that we should be looking at for down the road in that?

If this guy's story checks out he has broken no laws and would not face any charges, though I believe Minnesota has a Grand Jury system so there will be a hearing there anyway, but if the evidence shows this guy's story is true the prosecutor most likely would recommend no charges.

[omaharj]

Wow, that's a situation I don't want to be in. I believe everyone is responsible for their actions and the BG and permit holder (would vigilante be a misnomer?)made choices that will (or did) affect them the rest of their lives.
   Whether or not it is justified or legal, I'm not sure I chase a BG after the threat is over. I hope I have the self discipline to stop and think clearly. It was my understanding from my ccw class, you can't go looking,it has to happen. When the BG left the scene,imminent threat was over. Time to be a good witness,perhaps a cell phone call to 911 might help guide the cops. I'm sure I can have  a long, happy life, having never "taken out" a BG.  RJ

[DaveB]

Had he been killed by the thief, the news would have reported how a CCW holder was stupid for chasing a criminal. And that civilians have no business having guns. There also would be no need for an investigation.

Glad it turned out the way it should have, the training must have worked. Hope he risked his life for more than a tube of lipstick and a handkerchief like my grandma carried.

[HuskerXDM]

All that's necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing.
-Edmund Burke

[dark 45]

i can not say i would or would not do as that man did, i would like to think i would. i think he did what was right, what the laws say may disagree. the things that would be in my mind being weighed would not include legality at that point, it would be risk of self, worth of said risk, and my duty as a US citizen.

we all have a human right to and i may say even slight obligation to help others. the police are paid to take on the responsibility of every citizen full time and are paid for not having the time to go into another career. the laws may claim different, that dose not make them right. i believe the fact people do nothing is the reason the world is the way it is. can someone outlaw kindness? or duty to self and others? who says that just because someone might be a mechanic or IT that they can not provide help and safety to others?


my ex chased a robber out of a store she was working at, people just watched. lazy self serving people feeling self entitled. i was rather upset no one helped her, what if this person who was robbed and hit with a pistol was your wife or daughter? what if this man would target your wife or daughter next? i witnessed a man walk after a girl cussing and screaming, he then grabbed her. by the time i got there he was hitting her dragging her away, the entire time people across the street just watch as i alone took this man to the ground. later when the police arrive 20 minutes later they found he had a knife on his person with warrants for assault and rape. who knows what i stopped. i was detained and questioned but i was lucky enough for the cop just to take my statement and give me an "atta boy" but i could not just sit and let this man take her, someones daughter, to do as he pleased. when did this world become so lazy and afraid?

again i can not say i would do as that man did in that situation, firearms being involved, i hope i would. i hope allot of others might stand to the face of situations like this with the courage he showed. it might be a purse this time but as they grow confident in little crimes they escalate. stop them now and maybe stop a senseless rape or murder later, maybe even during another robbery.

just the way i see things.

[sjwsti]

To me there is a significant difference between a crime involving property and one were someone may be seriously injured or killed.

Its not my responsibility to arrest or punish petty criminals. Would I stand by and watch a robber run out of a store? Yes. Why should I risk my safety and the safety of those around me to retrieve property that should be insured anyway? I will be a great witness and stay out of the way.

my ex chased a robber out of a store she was working at, people just watched. lazy self serving people feeling self entitled. i was rather upset no one helped her

Im curious as to what her plan was if she caught him? Was this a guy who, once caught, would simply lay down and quit? Or was he a stone cold killer who wasnt going back to prison? And if she caught him and started getting her a$$ handed to her someone like you or I would step in and help. And I would be pissed if I got inured or killed helping her out of a jam that she could have avoided.

I can understand being angry at being victimized and wanting to make sure the guilty are punished. As far as Im concerned, when it comes to petty crime,  that is what the Police and the Justice system are for.

 
  i witnessed a man walk after a girl cussing and screaming, he then grabbed her. by the time i got there he was hitting her dragging her away, the entire time people across the street just watch as i alone took this man to the ground. later when the police arrive 20 minutes later they found he had a knife on his person with warrants for assault and rape. 

Now this is something different entirely. Well done. This is a situation were you stepped in and prevented a serious crime. Im not surprised no one helped you. If I ever have to intervene in a situation like this I plan on having to act alone.

Keep in mind it doesnt always work out well for the good Samaritan. Here are just a few examples.

http://www.ketv.com/news/9294234/detail.html

Store owner shot in the legs and head as he chased a robber outside of his store. Luck intervenes and he survives a hole in the head but looses an eye.

http://www.wowt.com/news/headlines/2101902.html

Multiple employees chase robbers outside and exchange shots. One employee hit in the head and killed. 

No article for this one but I transported a good Samaritan to the hospital who saw a young lady being assaulted. He stepped in to help and was stabbed multiple times for his trouble. Both the female and male turned against him once he got between them. He suffered a lifelong disability from the attack that will keep him from ever working again.

In the aftermath, if you were to ask any of these people or their families if it the actions of their family members were heroic or worthwhile, what do you think they would say?

- Shawn 

[dark 45]

she did in fact catch the guy as he was getting on his bike. as he attempted to hit her with a bottle of booze he stole she grabbed the bicycle seat she noticed was loose and beat him with it. then he grew pissed getting off his bike dropping the back pack full of stolen stuff. he tried to be aggressive scare her off. she walked toward him and said get out of here, don't come back or your dead. mind you she is 6' Irish blond. with the bicycle seat she just beat him with. there where a few more incidences of things happening but that was one of the few where it went out side in the day time. my favorite part is she gave the dudes bike to some homeless guy.

i had a talk with her afterward about how the guy could be strung out and a problem that her knife might not be able to take care of. she full well knew the risk she was putting herself in, but she was never one to back down out of anything. i can't really say what she did was wrong or right. i just don't see any good in letting people get away with things. i personalty don't fault anyone for not going after someone nor for going after someone. its not about the fact that its petty its about letting people think they can get away with what ever they want and its ok. all the time you hear.. well i have heard many times from my family who are sheriff and local pd, that they known the same guys for years doing the same thing and they keep getting worse and worse a guy my uncle knew started lifting purses and in 6 years ended up stabbing a 16 year old girl for her car keys. a guy i went to high school with shop lifted and sold pot, 8 years later same guy caught for shooting up the local Mexican store killing the guy who ran the place at night. you could say its due to a faulty justice system and not being able to keep guys put away, but in the end its about getting them when you can how ever you can. and if you don't want to risk your safety that is fine i have no issue with it but i think i or libbey(my ex) or that guy who got the purse after shooting that guy should be able to do so. we talk so much about how people want handguns for self defense and about how cops can't be there all the time. well shouldn't a man/woman standing there watching a crime in progress be able to step in, armed or not, if he/she wants to? i see both sides and as much as i agree that a shoot out between a civi and a guy who lifted candy bar is not called for at all. i am just saying a guy who assaulted a woman and took her purse is not the kind of guy that should be running around free to do as he pleased. what happened is the way it should have went down. it could have went down differently.  in the man getting shot rather then the scumbag, but i am sure he knew the risk. but i assume you are talking about out side of that, the fact that a stray round could have hit another innocent person. but the same argument comes in when we talk about self defense, me defending myself in a violent situation could mean me shooting someone who might not have been shot if i just laid there and did nothing. all i know is putting a blanket over the situation and saying it is illegal to act is wrong. and i don't ever go into these situations with the idea everything is going to be ok.

i see your point about it turning ugly on good people. but i am supposed to sit and watch as someone drags that poor girl to do god knows what to her? or watch a man hit a woman with a gun and take her belongings? maybe it is because i live with the guilt of letting something happen i know i could have stopped. so its become personal, but i think i rather die doing the right thing then try and live with my self letting it happen, no matter how petty.

[DaveB]

I just can't see putting myself in danger for some little crime. If everybody started chasing thugs, when the cops did show up, they wouldn't know which gun toter to shoot, and there is a good chance they will shoot the wrong one. It's hard to be a good witness if you are bleeding on the street by yourself. I didn't get a CCW to do the job of the police, I got it for protection, not aggression. I'm not chasing a guy who just swiped a purse, it's just not worth leaving a wife at home alone to spend my life insurance money.

[AAllen]

Some Follow-up commentary and information.

http://www.startribune.com/local/133045923.html

[Husker_Fan]

That was a great OpEd.

[JimP]

I just can't see putting myself in danger for some little crime.

-Dave B

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.”

-Edmund Burke

I'll side with Mr. Burke on this one, and act accordingly.

People are tired of the hooligans running roughshod over them.

If everybody started chasing thugs, when the cops did show up, they wouldn't know which gun toter to shoot, and there is a good chance they will shoot the wrong one.

Provided they only shoot in self defense, like everyone else is supposed to...... no chance of that....  everyone, the Police most especially, seems to have forgotten their Sir Robert Peel:

The Police are the Public and the Public are the Police.

Look it up.  Contrast Sir Robert's Principles with the paramilitary police force we have today, calling the Public "civilians" ..... they are more and more miltarized all the time, so it figures, I guess... 

[Lorimor]

The thing is even if you do everything right, you can still get killed.  I'm not going to put my life in jeopardy over someone else's property. 

And on a personal note, there seem to be so many willing to get real ugly and very angry over the notion of CCW.  Many are convinced CCW permit holders are simply cop wannabes or they want to be "heroes."  What if my actions saved a high and mighty know-it-all anti-CCW'er?  Wouldn't that piss them off?   

Do they deserve my help?  Aren't they responsible for their own safety?  (As we so rightly tell them?)

And I sure as hell wouldn't (and couldn't) expect them to help pay my legal expenses, now could I?

(Um... yeah, I'm a little vindictive.)

Should a fellow citizen obviously need assistance and it's obvious who the aggressor was, I would intervene, if I could do so and do so with minimal risk but I'm not going to go chasing down some punk after he or she has left the scene. 

But I wouldn't expect any gratitude or thanks.   That's not in the cards in this "Age of The Common Man." 

[bkoenig]

The thing is even if you do everything right, you can still get killed.  I'm not going to put my life in jeopardy over someone else's property.

That's my philosophy.  I would assist someone who's in danger of death or bodily harm, but I'm not going to risk my daughter growing up without a father for a purse.