Author Topic: Who says criminals don't watch the news (Read 2518 times)

Dan W · « **on:** November 17, 2011, 09:54:55 PM »

They have hammered home the idea that no one on campus can possess a firearm, and now the bad guys know it too.

Quote

OMAHA, Neb. -- The University of Nebraska Omaha said it's stepping up patrols around campus after an armed robbery in one of its housing units.

It happened about 9:15 p.m. Wednesday.Omaha police said a man knocked on a door, saying he was looking for someone.

When the door was answered, the man -- armed with a gun -- forced his way inside, police said.

According to the report, the man took two laptop computers and one wallet.

Officers who searched the area were unable to find the robber.

Read more: http://www.ketv.com/news/29797535/detail.html#ixzz1e1eqQnnV

Roper · « **Reply #1 on:** November 19, 2011, 12:45:55 PM »

Gotta love gun free zones. They can step up all the patrols they want, simply not enough resources to be every where. Tough situation for the students living on campus.

NE Bull · « **Reply #2 on:** November 19, 2011, 06:43:56 PM »

FREE CRIME ZONES That's what we call them.

Another of my fence straddling issues. $:-\$ On one hand I'm not certain alot of our kids at the college level are responsible enough for gun ownership on campus. On the other hand, the responsible young adults should not be sitting ducks, so to speak, for violent crime, especially the young women and the possibility of rape.

I know I will catch flak for my thoughts. I will admit most of us have raised good kids (and taught them proper gun use and ownership)and believe they will make good decisions away from our nest. But there are plenty of kids who's parents did not do the job we did, or fell through the cracks of life that not only will make bad decisions in life, but also tend to pull our good kids into their world. Just look at your beloved UNL is rated tops in underage binge drinking and at the dumb-butt (censored for Dan) decisions some of the athletes tend to make make. It's those kids I worry about being drunk/ high or just being stupid with a firearm in a dorm (whether theirs or a roomates. )

Roper · « **Reply #3 on:** November 19, 2011, 07:35:02 PM »

NE Bull -I hear what you are saying; no clear cut solution.

Dan W · « **Reply #4 on:** November 19, 2011, 07:55:14 PM »

Problem is that everyone on campus has been disarrned except the bad guys.

Not every student is 18, and we allow CCW for only 21 and above. I see no reason to limit law abiding adults the means to self defense.

If they are trusted in the general population, then they should be trusted on campus

And like CCW in the general population, when only 1-2% carry, the criminal element has a much harder time picking and choosing victims.

NE Bull · « **Reply #5 on:** November 19, 2011, 08:24:35 PM »

Yes Dan, but could we stop at just CCW or do we allow all legally owned firearms, handguns, rifles, shotguns on campus dorms also? For self defense? (I would like to think Bubba Joe should be able to keep his .30-30 and 12 ga. around during hunting seasons. ) Actually that would probably be the best scenerio that only CHP holders be allowed weapons for self defense on campus, but could we restrict others in that way? (and not to mention the NE zero alcohol with CCW would put a damper on social life

)
I have a (soon to be) 12 year old daughter who, too soon, will be headed to college and I would love to think she would be able to tote more than pepper spray for protection, but how do we make that happen without the party animal next door showing off his pistol and shooting through the wall?

dcjulie · « **Reply #6 on:** November 19, 2011, 08:25:25 PM »

I would think that any student, 21 and older who goes through the requirements to get a CCW permit will be just as responsible as the rest of the CCW holders. If you want to carry, you alter your lifestyle such that you are able to carry and not in jeopardy of losing your permit to carry (and possibly your right to own a gun).

I am not a criminal, but I would think that any campus would be a hot spot for them to go to. Unarmed kids and the possibility of lots of electronics in a relatively small environment. I would hate to have to live on campus these days. Also, many colleges not only forbid guns, they also forbid any type of standard weapon, so you have to be a bit inventive in order to protect yourself.

rluening · « **Reply #7 on:** November 19, 2011, 09:31:19 PM »

Interesting:

http://www.omaha.com/article/20111119/NEWS97/711199858/0#three-robbed-in-uno-dormitory

The victims admitted the robber took their weed.

Smart.

/rl

justsomeguy · « **Reply #8 on:** November 19, 2011, 11:01:12 PM »

Quote

I have a (soon to be) 12 year old daughter who, too soon, will be headed to college and I would love to think she would be able to tote more than pepper spray for protection, but how do we make that happen without the party animal next door showing off his pistol and shooting through the wall?

Hold criminals responsible for their actions. A person's right to do ANYTHING they want stops when it hurts someone else.

bk09 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 29, 2011, 10:39:21 AM »

I may be able to have an input on this considering I am a student at UNL, and actually looking to transfer to UNO next year... I have been on the fence with this topic for 2 reasons.

1. Drunk "kids" and firearms is a no no.
2. Some "kids" aren't responsible enough to store it properly and that could very well lead to theft.

I lived in a fraternity just off of east campus, and technically it was university property but my house was in a secluded neighborhood so we tended to have a little more freedom. Lots of farm kids in it and when hunting season rolls around there are all kinds of rifles and shotguns stashed in the house out of plain sight. And living in a fraternity you see how much people can really drink and since these kids all grew up with guns there has never been an incident where they did anything with a gun while intoxicated because they know how to use them. However there are "kids" like me who were never brought up with guns who go to college and want to start buying guns. I owned a few guns while living in the fraternity and even began reloading my own ammo there (until some liberal thought it was dangerous and I had to stop). However most of us who had guns had them stashed in a closet somewhere not very secure, so the chance of a mishap is more likely.

Some of us young folk can be responsible with guns but the kid who has no friends in college could be the next loon to go off the deep end and start shooting people. I love the idea of concealed carry on campus, my chemistry tests are at night and when I'm walking across campus to my car I would feel more comfortable if I could carry (when I turn 21 in March). Seeing people on campus in my age demographic makes me feel that a large majority of 18 year olds wouldn't be responsible enough to carry anyways. Plus there is the problem of not being old enough to buy a handgun at 18. I support carrying on campus but if it were to come about the people who do it should have to take a course on how to properly store a gun and have pretty heavy consequences if not done so properly. Granted the majority of 21 year olds not in a sorority or a fraternity don't live on campus anyways.

I will probably get some heat along the lines of, "if they have to have it locked in a safe secured in a night stand how can they get to it fast to defend themselves against a robbery". That risk is not as high as some drunk minor with no experience with guns seeing an unsecured firearm and trying to show it off.

In conclusion, I support carry on campus for those qualified to do so with proper training through the university and/or police department on proper gun storage. There are booths around UNL that you can hit a button at if you feel nervous about someone loitering around but that would only bring an unarmed security guard to your help a few minutes later, I would feel better knowing I can better defend myself.

SemperFiGuy · « **Reply #10 on:** November 29, 2011, 11:47:15 AM »

What this Nebraska university system needs is a....................

Really Good Varsity Pistol Team!!!!!!!!!

We could be First in the Big Ten.

And some good courses like:

GLOCK 1010 - Introduction to Glockery

RELO 0099 - Remedial Reloading
RELO 1200 - Shotshell Reloading for Trapshooters

TACT 8980 - Advanced Tactical Shooting Techniques
TACT 8999 - Really, Really Advanced Tactical Shooting Techniques

We could have a College of Gunnery, with some cool laboratories in Grand Island at the range.

Maybe Warren Buffet could provide some grant seed monies to kickstart this concept.

[Just some thoughts while I'm home waiting for this broken hip to knit back together. People think shooting is dangerous? Just try road biking on the Keystone Trail.]

sfg

NE Bull · « **Reply #11 on:** November 29, 2011, 02:04:04 PM »

Ima liking the way your thinkin there SFG.
But isn't that first class a bit discriminatory?

I mean you at least need a course: COLT 1911 - Firearms in History

DaveB · « **Reply #12 on:** November 29, 2011, 04:26:46 PM »

Some people don't think that at 18 college kids are responsible enough to have guns for protection, yet they feel they are well mature enough to die for our freedom. Of course the military gives some minimal training, why can't the education system do the same if the student feels the need and responsibility?

Enforce the laws on the books, require training for campuses, and go on with life. I'll bet that most kids in school would mature even faster with the responsibility of gun ownership.

SemperFiGuy · « **Reply #13 on:** November 29, 2011, 09:19:29 PM »

NE Bull.............

The courses shown above are only sampler courses. Only the tiniest tip of the spear, er-- spire[point].

The entire curriculum should have Something for Everybody: Colts of all vintages. S&Ws. Maybe a dual major in Remingtons and Winchesters. A Master's Degree in Three Gun. Complete history of the Springfield XD.

Maybe DanW would fund an entire building devoted to Trapshooting, with an indoor trap range.

And wouldn't we all just love all the labs!!!!!!!

I'm gonna put this idea before the UNL Faculty Senate right away.

sfg

CitizenClark · « **Reply #14 on:** December 01, 2011, 03:43:59 PM »

Quote from: bradkoll on November 29, 2011, 10:39:21 AM

I may be able to have an input on this considering I am a student at UNL, and actually looking to transfer to UNO next year... I have been on the fence with this topic for 2 reasons.

1. Drunk "kids" and firearms is a no no.
2. Some "kids" aren't responsible enough to store it properly and that could very well lead to theft.

I lived in a fraternity just off of east campus, and technically it was university property but my house was in a secluded neighborhood so we tended to have a little more freedom. Lots of farm kids in it and when hunting season rolls around there are all kinds of rifles and shotguns stashed in the house out of plain sight. And living in a fraternity you see how much people can really drink and since these kids all grew up with guns there has never been an incident where they did anything with a gun while intoxicated because they know how to use them. However there are "kids" like me who were never brought up with guns who go to college and want to start buying guns. I owned a few guns while living in the fraternity and even began reloading my own ammo there (until some liberal thought it was dangerous and I had to stop). However most of us who had guns had them stashed in a closet somewhere not very secure, so the chance of a mishap is more likely.

Some of us young folk can be responsible with guns but the kid who has no friends in college could be the next loon to go off the deep end and start shooting people. I love the idea of concealed carry on campus, my chemistry tests are at night and when I'm walking across campus to my car I would feel more comfortable if I could carry (when I turn 21 in March). Seeing people on campus in my age demographic makes me feel that a large majority of 18 year olds wouldn't be responsible enough to carry anyways. Plus there is the problem of not being old enough to buy a handgun at 18. I support carrying on campus but if it were to come about the people who do it should have to take a course on how to properly store a gun and have pretty heavy consequences if not done so properly. Granted the majority of 21 year olds not in a sorority or a fraternity don't live on campus anyways.

Freedom is dangerous. I still prefer it to the nanny state.

Quote

I will probably get some heat along the lines of, "if they have to have it locked in a safe secured in a night stand how can they get to it fast to defend themselves against a robbery". That risk is not as high as some drunk minor with no experience with guns seeing an unsecured firearm and trying to show it off.

In conclusion, I support carry on campus for those qualified to do so with proper training through the university and/or police department on proper gun storage. There are booths around UNL that you can hit a button at if you feel nervous about someone loitering around but that would only bring an unarmed security guard to your help a few minutes later, I would feel better knowing I can better defend myself.

I support legal campus carry for everyone. If you have some kid go off Virginia Tech style, the fact that campus carry is illegal won't stop that. A murderer is a law-breaker by definition. If you have legal campus carry, though, that means that your psychopath is more likely to encounter potential victims who have the means to defend themselves.

armed and humorous · « **Reply #15 on:** January 01, 2012, 05:35:07 PM »

I'd be okay with CHP holders carrying on campus. At least they've had some training and background checks. I'm not so sure the dorms are really going to be a targeted area for burglars and robbers, though, simply because it's a gun-free zone. The fact is that the vast majority of home-invasion type robberies (not burglaries when the thief thinks no one is home), are not just random. Most all result from knowledge ahead of time by the robbers that there are drugs, or drug cash, or other valuables, because the robbers know the victims, or know someone who knows them. As in this case, pot was probably the target all along. The victims only admitted to a small amount, but the truth might be there was much more.

DanClrk51 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 03, 2012, 05:44:20 AM »

Quote from: bradkoll on November 29, 2011, 10:39:21 AM

I may be able to have an input on this considering I am a student at UNL, and actually looking to transfer to UNO next year... I have been on the fence with this topic for 2 reasons.

1. Drunk "kids" and firearms is a no no.
2. Some "kids" aren't responsible enough to store it properly and that could very well lead to theft.

I lived in a fraternity just off of east campus, and technically it was university property but my house was in a secluded neighborhood so we tended to have a little more freedom. Lots of farm kids in it and when hunting season rolls around there are all kinds of rifles and shotguns stashed in the house out of plain sight. And living in a fraternity you see how much people can really drink and since these kids all grew up with guns there has never been an incident where they did anything with a gun while intoxicated because they know how to use them. However there are "kids" like me who were never brought up with guns who go to college and want to start buying guns. I owned a few guns while living in the fraternity and even began reloading my own ammo there (until some liberal thought it was dangerous and I had to stop). However most of us who had guns had them stashed in a closet somewhere not very secure, so the chance of a mishap is more likely.

Some of us young folk can be responsible with guns but the kid who has no friends in college could be the next loon to go off the deep end and start shooting people. I love the idea of concealed carry on campus, my chemistry tests are at night and when I'm walking across campus to my car I would feel more comfortable if I could carry (when I turn 21 in March). Seeing people on campus in my age demographic makes me feel that a large majority of 18 year olds wouldn't be responsible enough to carry anyways. Plus there is the problem of not being old enough to buy a handgun at 18. I support carrying on campus but if it were to come about the people who do it should have to take a course on how to properly store a gun and have pretty heavy consequences if not done so properly. Granted the majority of 21 year olds not in a sorority or a fraternity don't live on campus anyways.

I will probably get some heat along the lines of, "if they have to have it locked in a safe secured in a night stand how can they get to it fast to defend themselves against a robbery". That risk is not as high as some drunk minor with no experience with guns seeing an unsecured firearm and trying to show it off.

In conclusion, I support carry on campus for those qualified to do so with proper training through the university and/or police department on proper gun storage. There are booths around UNL that you can hit a button at if you feel nervous about someone loitering around but that would only bring an unarmed security guard to your help a few minutes later, I would feel better knowing I can better defend myself.

We could also argue that many people are not mature enough to handle driving cars. Car accidents happen every day and more people die from cars then from guns. We see drunk drivers breaking the law all the time and getting people hurt. Do we put down blanket restrictions on all drivers because of this? No.
Society has been taking the easy way out when it comes to guns, which has hurt only ourselves, by banning them, demonizing them etc.
College/University dormitory gun bans are unconstitutional since they prevent people from exercising their 2nd Amendment rights in their dwelling place or place of lodging. Age restrictions on guns are discriminatory, the 2nd Amendment has no age limit. And the Nebraska State Constitution recognizes that ALL PERSONS have a right to keep and bear arms. Just a few decades ago there were no age restrictions on the sale and possession of guns.
So the issue is not the maturity. The issue here is our rights! If a court or the legislature would act to restore those rights on campuses today, then maybe it would finally cause society to do its duty by creating safety through education/training rather than demonizing guns and banning them.
And just because it will suddenly become legal does not mean every student is going to show up in their dorm with their arsenals. Those who want to have guns in their dorms will bring them and others will decide not to. And if everyone does show up with guns. OH WELL!............Then maybe society/colleges/universities/govt will finally do what they should have done in the first place: provide education, safety training and so forth. If colleges can make algebra (which only few people will use in their professions) mandatory for everyone then they can make gun safety mandatory for everyone.
A very crucial constitutional right is being violated in this country and it only seems to bother half the populace. Theres a problem there....
Like some have said above, maturity will likely come faster as a result of having to deal with this issue rather than ignore it. People will adapt.

As many have said before lets punish those that actually cause harm (drunk and reckless armed college kids in this case), not restrict everyone elses constitutional rights.

armed and humorous · « **Reply #17 on:** January 03, 2012, 11:57:55 AM »

Dan:

You are right in that the second amendment, nor our state constitution mention age. As for your analogy about driving, we do have "blanket restrictions" based on age for drivers licenses. A person cannot get any kind of drivers license prior to the age of 14, and then only learners permits or provisional operators licenses that place restrictions on them above and beyond a regular drivers license. The reason for this is well-documented evidence that the brains of young people are not fully capable of the same kinds of reasoning and judgement that most adults have. Statistics show that the rates of teens having crashes are far higher than for adults, and the general conclusion is that it is the imaturity of the brain that limits their ability to make good decisions. Afterall, most teens can see better, hear better, and have faster reaction times than most adults. If there weren't for some other cause, they should fare better than adults when it comes to driving.

Even though I agree that kids should be taught about guns, even at an early age, I don't think I'd want children of any age being allowed to carry loaded fire arms around at their own discretion. Granted, college age students may not be considered children any longer, and they can go to war and all that, but it doesn't change the fact (that medical science has claimed) their brains have not yet fully developed, leaving their ability to make good judgements less than optimal.

As much as I agree with you that our state constitution and the bill of rights does not specify an age when it comes to keeping bearing arms, I have a hard time believing that even our forefathers would have wanted children running around with guns. I doubt if you are actually advocating youngsters of any age having guns, but one might surmise that from your argument.

I'm not arguing one way or the other as to the legality or wisdom of allowing guns on college campuses. I'm just putting out some more information to ponder. Personally, I'm undecided on the question.

Dan W · « **Reply #18 on:** January 03, 2012, 12:30:12 PM »

It seems that the restriction (or disability) of minor's rights, have a basis in Common Law. I am not arguing in any way that that minors be allowed unrestricted access to firearms. But I do believe that such "disability" should be removed once the age of majority is reached

http://constitution.org/soclcont.htm

Quote

Common Law recognizes that persons are born with disabilities of minority, and constitutions and laws typically define some age at which those disabilities are removed, such as age 18 in the United States for purposes of voting, although it may allow for such disabilities to be removed earlier, or retained past the usual age of majority, upon petition to do so.

DanClrk51 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 04, 2012, 03:52:23 AM »

Quote from: Dan W on January 03, 2012, 12:30:12 PM

But I do believe that such "disability" should be removed once the age of majority is reached

And that would be age 18 in our country since you can own a home, rent an apt, raise a family, vote, fight in war, drive a car etc. At age 18 people here are adults and if the parents have the legal right to push them out of the nest then they should be able to own handguns and carry them like any other. Then there is the inconsistency with them allowed to own long guns but not handguns. Makes no sense at all. It is discrimination. Period.