Author Topic: List of Nebraska Churches that allow CCW? (Read 3642 times)

GO99 · « **on:** January 27, 2012, 04:11:02 PM »

I'm in "negotiations" with our church to set up a "security" team so that we can carry concealed during church services. They have requested I gather a list of churches within Nebraska that have current security teams setup so they can understand how other churches are doing this. I have done some research and have not been successful. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.
THANKS!

bullit · « **Reply #1 on:** January 27, 2012, 05:46:38 PM »

Send me a PM

Mudinyeri · « **Reply #2 on:** January 28, 2012, 11:01:20 AM »

Yeah, I don't reckon (m)any of the churches, or their parishioners who carry, really want to be "listed" anywhere public.

armed and humorous · « **Reply #3 on:** January 28, 2012, 01:01:25 PM »

I'd be interested in seeing the list, if one exists. I can't speak for individuals, but perhaps the church itself would actually welcome being on the list in hopes that it would be a deterrent to those who might wish to do harm there. I'm not sure what my own church's policy is, or if they have a "security" team. If they did, maybe I'd go more often!

DaveB · « **Reply #4 on:** January 28, 2012, 02:01:36 PM »

Any luck yet Andy? I will have to check with our church to see. I have never heard anything brought up about it one way or another. Maybe it's because they don't think anything can happen in small town America.

metaldoc · « **Reply #5 on:** January 28, 2012, 02:56:36 PM »

I know of one church that was asked by a member to consider the security team option and a lawyer on their board of elders told them it would be a liability nightmare for the church.

Seems to me like they'd have a liability nightmare if something like CO Springs happened and it became known the church didn't try to take preventive action.

DaveB · « **Reply #6 on:** January 28, 2012, 06:09:57 PM »

I wonder how much the lawyer charged for the consultation? Why would it be any more of a liability in a church than it is in a wal-mart?

armed and humorous · « **Reply #7 on:** January 28, 2012, 06:29:59 PM »

I'm not sure how liability would be affected; however, Walmart would simply be allowing concealed carry, whereas the church would be actively setting up an armed "security" force.

GO99 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 28, 2012, 09:57:53 PM »

Quote from: DaveB on January 28, 2012, 02:01:36 PM

Any luck yet Andy? I will have to check with our church to see. I have never heard anything brought up about it one way or another. Maybe it's because they don't think anything can happen in small town America.

Yes, bullit has a great contact, I'm having our church contact them, we'll see what happens.

LazyAce · « **Reply #9 on:** January 29, 2012, 08:04:10 AM »

I go to small church--about 30 members. There are 3 of us that have carry permits and one is a retired police officer. All three of us are on the church board. Our Minister likes guns also but does not carry. The 4 of us have got together and ok`d any of us carrying in church if we feel the need. None of the other members are aware of it. I will carry at times if I plan on going somewhere as soon as I get out of church. I don`t like leaving my gun in the car. If nothing ever happens--no problem. If something does happen hopefully we can handle it.

GO99 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 29, 2012, 08:05:41 AM »

Quote from: metaldoc on January 28, 2012, 02:56:36 PM

Seems to me like they'd have a liability nightmare if something like CO Springs happened and it became known the church didn't try to take preventive action.

This is what I'm thinking also, now that the discussion has started, actually started several months ago, if something did happen the question will be asked why an armed security team wasn't in place. Any lawyer type out there to confirm this?

bullit · « **Reply #11 on:** January 29, 2012, 09:03:39 AM »

LazyAce....you and your non-LEO cohorts ARE in violation of the law if you do NOT inform the attendees of your church that there are "armed security team members" in the service. The retired police chief is NOT in violation of the law as long as his credentials are up to date under LEOSA. You do want to have an official policy/amendment during one of your board meetings creating a security team, purposes, allowances, etc. Now....this does NOT mean you have to announce verbally or in writing specifically who is carrying. I know of one church that simply printed a "Safety Brochure" that includes fire, tornado, etc information. Included in the brochure is mention of armed security personnel. This satisfies the requirement.
With regards to liability/insurance issues I would refer all interested to:
www.brotherhoodmutual.com A couple of other resources are www.churchsafety.com and www.CPPSsite.com

GO99 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 29, 2012, 09:16:30 AM »

With regards to liability/insurance issues I would refer all interested to:
www.brotherhoodmutual.com A couple of other resources are www.churchsafety.com and www.CPPSsite.com
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thanks for the links, this could also be very helpful.

Gunscribe · « **Reply #13 on:** January 29, 2012, 09:34:15 AM »

As far as Liability issues go I would suggest reading "Gun in the workplace" by Chuck Klien. I have have provided a number of copies of this book to NFOA members in the past, so I know some might be available.

GO99 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 29, 2012, 09:49:26 AM »

Is there any training kits or local courses, within NE, that would be helpful for a church to have their security team go through as part of the commitment for being on the security team? This might ease the church management a little for allowing CCW's in church.

Personally I would prefer if we were just allowed to carry for our own protection in church and the church not know about it, that would give them an out from being sued, maybe. But thanks to NE law....

sjwsti · « **Reply #15 on:** January 29, 2012, 11:02:46 AM »

Quote from: GO99 on January 29, 2012, 09:49:26 AM

Is there any training kits or local courses, within NE, that would be helpful for a church to have their security team go through as part of the commitment for being on the security team? This might ease the church management a little for allowing CCW's in church.

I would be happy to put a course together for any church security team. I can make it as basic (shooting fundamentals, use of cover/concealment, etc..) or advanced (team tactics, combat medicine, FOF drills at your facility, etc..) as you like. PM me if you have any questions regarding training. If I cant help you I can direct you to someone who can.

- Shawn

bullit · « **Reply #16 on:** January 29, 2012, 01:19:07 PM »

GO99.....this is for education sake.....it is a false presumption on your part that you being legally allowed to carry in a church will in any way make said church immune to a civil suit. You, a church, business, etc. can be sued for anything at anytime whether right, wrong or otherwise. Even if there is a immunity provision for said church, they will still incur legal fees hiring the attorney to have the suit dismissed. Furthermore, they are extremely limited exceptions to recouping legal fees for even a frivilous suit in Nebraska. Right or wrong....that is why it is called a "Court of Law" and not a "Court of Justice".

GO99 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 29, 2012, 06:31:45 PM »

Quote from: bullit on January 29, 2012, 01:19:07 PM

GO99.....this is for education sake.....it is a false presumption on your part that you being legally allowed to carry in a church will in any way make said church immune to a civil suit. You, a church, business, etc. can be sued for anything at anytime whether right, wrong or otherwise. Even if there is a immunity provision for said church, they will still incur legal fees hiring the attorney to have the suit dismissed. Furthermore, they are extremely limited exceptions to recouping legal fees for even a frivilous suit in Nebraska. Right or wrong....that is why it is called a "Court of Law" and not a "Court of Justice".

You are correct, wishful thinking on my part, unfortunately I know all to well about frivolous suits, any shootings in a church, or business, and the law suits will be flying in every direction. All we can do is have good insurance and a good lawyer and pray for the best. But at least we would have a better chance to live another day.

Thanks for your great comments, I can tell you've been around the block a few times.

Andy

DanClrk51 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 29, 2012, 07:38:32 PM »

The ultimate solution is to get "place of worship" off of the banned list altogether. The term in and of itself is overly broad and I believe too vague to be constitutional. My own home could be a place of worship if I am praying to my God, as well as the home of someone else where a small group meets for bible study.

I didn't like the "church security" provision to begin with since it sounds like too much of a hassle. I doubt that many churches are taking advantage of this and would bet its under 5%.... if that.
I don't even want to bring it up at my church because that's just something that you don't want to talk about at church. Too much potential to generate controversy and hurt feelings/drama and church splits. The state of Nebraska has no business giving orders to a church, mosque, synagogue, temple or whatever place of worship.

GO99 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 29, 2012, 08:07:24 PM »

Quote from: DanClrk51 on January 29, 2012, 07:38:32 PM

The ultimate solution is to get "place of worship" off of the banned list altogether. The term in and of itself is overly broad and I believe too vague to be constitutional. My own home could be a place of worship if I am praying to my God, as well as the home of someone else where a small group meets for bible study.

I didn't like the "church security" provision to begin with since it sounds like too much of a hassle. I doubt that many churches are taking advantage of this and would bet its under 5%.... if that.
I don't even want to bring it up at my church because that's just something that you don't want to talk about at church. Too much potential to generate controversy and hurt feelings/drama and church splits. The state of Nebraska has no business giving orders to a church, mosque, synagogue, temple or whatever place of worship.

You're preaching to the choir... :-)