Concealed Carry

[FreedomOne]

Why is there all this talk about concealed carry, where we can carry and not carry, when in our own Nebraska constitution and on the first page of this website it says the following:
Section I-1 of the Nebraska Constitution:

I-1 Statement of rights. All persons are by nature free and independent, and have certain inherent and inalienable rights; among these are life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and the right to keep and bear arms for security or defense of self, family, home, and others, and for lawful common defense, hunting, recreational use, and all other lawful purposes, and such rights shall not be denied or infringed by the state or any subdivision thereof. To secure these rights, and the protection of property, governments are instituted among people, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.

Once this has been stated, there is no need for a ccw, or any of the "laws" about guns that are out there. They are in fact in error according to the above statement! If we do anything, we need to do a "revival" or a reawakening of what the law already is. Don't listen to the politicians, they don't run us! They work for us! We all need to remember that! Thank you!

[ranger04]

This goes along with the 2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, what part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?

[Randy]

Preaching to the choir here my friends.

[Jesse T]

I totally agree, however the reality is the words mean nothing when there are a hundred other laws on the books to convict you with.  If you argue this point in a court battle you will just end up looking like a loon.  Sad but true.

[Jay]

I totally agree, however the reality is the words mean nothing when there are a hundred other laws on the books to convict you with.  If you argue this point in a court battle you will just end up looking like a loon.  Sad but true.

Agreed, but I also agree with the the original poster 100%, so my questions are, how did we get here, how do we remedy this, and more importantly, how do we keep the situation from deteriorating any farther?

Is there a valid argument that times have changed and the Constitution should be taken in the context of current times, or have we needlessly allowed a great and relevant document to be molested and disregarded by foolishly compromising our rights away?

I know I am asking this question to a one sided audience here, but I just want to remind ourselves that as right as we think we are, to a great many people we all seem like nothing but a bunch of loons, and we are at least partly to blame I think for allowing it to slowly happen.

So again, my question is this, what do we do now? Should our fight be directed at lawmakers, or do we need to spend more effort changing the attitudes of the public at large? Where can we do the most good, in the White House, or in our neighbor's house? Do laws change people's attitudes, or do the people's attitudes change our laws?

[ranger04]

Jay,
       Where should our fight start is the question of the day. I believe that in order for us to change the public perception of gun owners the battle needs to be fought on all fronts. Getting laws changed will only serve our purpose in a postive way.  I believe this to be the most important aspect becasue when we have the law(s) on our side then the public has to tend to respect that law. Hey they elected the law makers also. Education of the public that gun owners are not that much diffrent from the regular folks. We just take our constitution a tad bit more serious.  The publics perception of the victim mentality is going to be hard to change, the public is indoctrinated from a very young age that it is acceptable to be the victim, public sympathy and all of that baloney.We need to expound on those cases where the intended victim turned the tables on the criminal. Publicize those cases where an armed citizen prevented a crime or stopped a crime. Jeanne Asman in the church shooting comes to mind. Public awareness of these cases will help.  But this will require influnece in the media, If it bleeds it leads, lets make sure it is the criminal  that bleeds.   We need to make being a criminal a very dangerous occupation, both from the law enforcement aspect as well as the intended victim aspect. I kinda went on a rant here.. sorry.

[Jay]

Ranger, don't apologize, rant away! That's what these forums are here for. I know this subject is beating a dead horse for some, but as our organization is growing, so is the number of members that are new to the fight. I know my kids love reading these forums, and what they are learning here they are talking with their friends about. I also know of some older members here that are new to our fight, so these discussions are great for them, too.

I agree that the fight must be fought on all fronts, and that there is no easy answer as to where we concentrate our efforts. Like you said, getting laws changed will only serve us in a positive way, and the public has to tend to respect that law, but your statement that the public elected the lawmakers has a flip side to it.. since they elected the lawmakers, if we concentrated our efforts on changing their opinions, wouldn't the lawmakers they elect be more inclined to follow their way of thinking? Again, you are 100% correct in that changing perceptions will be a long and difficult battle, and that the media plays a huge part in that. So, how do we influence the media? Is that even possible?

We need to make being a criminal a very dangerous occupation, both from the law enforcement aspect as well as the intended victim aspect.

That right there is the quote of the day!

[FreedomOne]

Thanks for some great feedback! It's good to see that there are more of us out there that realize we are already legal to carry, by a law already on the books. This was before the ccw or any of the other "illegal" laws that were added. Shouldn't there be a lawyer willing to take this up with Nebraska government, and point out the error of it's ways? And how does Omaha and/or Lincoln get away with adding laws that are in contradiction to already existing laws, and enforce them? Any ideas or thoughts on what could/should be done to correct these mistakes? Should we organize, form a group and hire a lawyer? Should we form a group and protest these illegal laws at the legislature level? We can talk all we want to. I for one, would like to do something about it. One person alone might not be able to afford a lawyer, but perhaps a large group of us could? Just a thought. Action needs to be taken or we can watch our rights go right out the window! Or have they already? It's not too late if we act now!

[ranger04]

I was talking with my CCW trainer this week and he thought that hiring a lawyer as a group and filing a suit against one city would cause the others to fold pretty quickly. I tend to agree. Chris said there is something in the works, maybe we should get two things in the works. I think we should find an attorney that will take up our cause, pool some funds and get the ball rolling. My question is would a law suit tie up the legislature acting on this? Would they wait and see what the courts decide or would they push this thru to prevent more suits being filed?

[Wymore Wrangler]

Beatrice is meeting tonight to vote on their city ordiance, hopefully we will have one less to worry about, fear of lawsuits does make a big wave also...

[Dan W]

Please keep us informed WW

[FreedomOne]

Ok, so do we have a lot of people that agree that we should pursue legal action to get our rights back? Let me know what you think. I can even get a place to meet if we need one. It holds about 50-60 people.

[ranger04]

I think we NEED to do this. I stated in an email to Jay that I would love to nominate Columbus as the first to be filed on If we can find an attorney that would take the case, getting the funds together would not be a big issue I believe. Strength in Numbers. We also need to keep pushing the legislature to get LB430 moving.

[tonopah]

Found on Second amendment march site. They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin

[schlumper]

Thanks for some great feedback! It's good to see that there are more of us out there that realize we are already legal to carry, by a law already on the books. This was before the ccw or any of the other "illegal" laws that were added. Shouldn't there be a lawyer willing to take this up with Nebraska government, and point out the error of it's ways? And how does Omaha and/or Lincoln get away with adding laws that are in contradiction to already existing laws, and enforce them? Any ideas or thoughts on what could/should be done to correct these mistakes? Should we organize, form a group and hire a lawyer? Should we form a group and protest these illegal laws at the legislature level? We can talk all we want to. I for one, would like to do something about it. One person alone might not be able to afford a lawyer, but perhaps a large group of us could? Just a thought. Action needs to be taken or we can watch our rights go right out the window! Or have they already? It's not too late if we act now!

I have discussed this issue with a lawyer in the past. He said the best way to challenge the law would be to find the cleanest person you could that has a history in military or law enforcement. Have them take the CCW class and fingerprints and everything else for a CCW license but not pay the fee. When he gets denied for not paying the fee, he would have grounds to sue the government to change the law. This is probably the most important part as many lawsuits that challenge laws are dismissed because the person doesn't have the grounds to sue.

Also, as it is my understanding, the group that originally got the firearms section added to the Nebraska constitution's statement of rights back in the 1980's did so with the intent to make Nebraska an unlicensed ccw state. If you can get a representative from that group to testify as such, it would greatly help the case as many judges base decisions off of the original intent of the law.

[FreedomOne]

Great info there Schlumper! Thank you! I don't have military or law enforcement background, or I would volunteer for this. I may even know one of the persons that was responsible for the constitution being added to. He has said, ever since I have known him, that ccw was never the thing for us to go after, it has been our right since the 1980's due to our constituion. He is a big proponent of getting things back to the way they should be. If we can get this moving, I'm sure he will help!

[Aldo]

"...Have them take the CCW class and fingerprints and everything else for a CCW license but not pay the fee. When he gets denied for not paying the fee,..."

Maybe it's changed since I got my ccw permit back in March '07, but the SP office wouldn't even let me go behind their door to their office area to begin the processing until I paid my fee up front.

[tonopah]

Who out there is prior Military and had thier police department refuse to issue a firearms purchase certificate unless they gave a copy of thier DD form 214 for them to copy? Talk about our chosen few not adhering to the Constitution. On top of that my county Sheriffs dept. was refusing to do them if you had a in town address. I got that all straightened out after I talked to the AG office, but they are back at it again. Good old North Platte.

[schlumper]

"...Have them take the CCW class and fingerprints and everything else for a CCW license but not pay the fee. When he gets denied for not paying the fee,..."

Maybe it's changed since I got my ccw permit back in March '07, but the SP office wouldn't even let me go behind their door to their office area to begin the processing until I paid my fee up front.

Hmmm, that does kind of muck it up a little. (I don't have a ccw license, so I don't know the exact process) Being denied a license to exercise your right because of not paying a fee is the easiest way to get grounds to sue, but I'm sure there's something else. Well, there is always the criminal defense route, but that requires someone to face criminal charges relating to ccw.