Author Topic: Trayvon Martin (Read 8756 times)

omaharj · « **on:** March 23, 2012, 07:23:15 PM »

If the story being reported is substantially true
This case has Nothing to do with Castle Doctrine except the police are using it as a scapegoat. Florida's statute does NOT PROTECT YOU if YOU initiate the conflict. It appears overwhelming evidence was ignored by the police. Being a Neighborhood Watch Officer gives no exceptional protection. It appears an undisciplined vigilante is being protected by the police (The why I can only speculate,I have my suspicions,but will wait for facts). If anybody asks me, I will explain Florida law (which includes Stand Your Ground) and how this is an issue of a police coverup trying to smear Castle Doctrine as a scapegoat. I believe this will end up going in front of a jury and his chasing of the victim will eliminate a Castle Doctrine defense. I believe the antis will try to make this about Castle Doctrine----IT IS NOT....There is a police coverup,don't let people turn it into Stand your Ground's fault. I look forward to reading this thread in 3 months,hehheh. RJ

bullit · « **Reply #1 on:** March 23, 2012, 08:52:30 PM »

I've listened to the 911 recordings....even if 1/2 of editing for content, splicing or anything consipiratorial... Mr. Zimmerman belongs in a hole in the bottom of the deepest darkest prison.... and yes, I know one is innocent until proven guilty in this country, but this young lad should still be a live (even if he "looks like he could have been my son" - President Obama).

Mudinyeri · « **Reply #2 on:** March 24, 2012, 09:40:23 AM »

In case you haven't seen it on the news (and you probably won't), according to the evidence Mr. Zimmerman was retreating toward his vehicle when the altercation occurred. His nose was bloodied as was the back of his head. He had grass stains on his back. This is why he was not arrested.

Is Zimmerman entirely without fault? Certainly not. However, it seems premature to suggest that Zimmerman was unjustified in the shooting - particularly, based on the evidence (as opposed to the inflammatory stories being told my the MSM).

It is certainly unfortunate that a young man is dead. It is also unfortunate that the anti's are turning this into a witch-hunt of law-abiding, firearm-owning citizens. With Holder now involved, it seems unlikely that we will ever know the truth.

DanClrk51 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 24, 2012, 01:31:53 PM »

Quote from: bullit on March 23, 2012, 08:52:30 PM

I've listened to the 911 recordings....even if 1/2 of editing for content, splicing or anything consipiratorial... Mr. Zimmerman belongs in a hole in the bottom of the deepest darkest prison.... and yes, I know one is innocent until proven guilty in this country, but this young lad should still be a live (even if he "looks like he could have been my son" - President Obama).

If it turns out that Trayvon Martin was on top of Mr. Zimmerman while he was down on the ground on his back and being punched in the face and head, then I believe he had every right to shoot him. I don't care if he was 17yrs old or if he was lighter than Mr. Zimmerman. A fist is just as much a deadly weapon as any other. And in order to use deadly force you don't have to necessarily fear death but also serious bodily injury. I'd say being punched in the head is a serious bodily injury as all it takes is one blow to the head to kill you.
I also heard that Mr. Zimmerman had a broken nose. So before all of you people start judging, please wait for the facts to come in.

Policista · « **Reply #4 on:** March 24, 2012, 04:38:56 PM »

I hope that the FBI investigation can validate the Sandford PD and restore the public confidence
in the agency that has been destroyed by the anti-gun, liberal media and politicians.

bkoenig · « **Reply #5 on:** March 24, 2012, 05:56:02 PM »

Interesting...sounds like there is a witness who says Martin attacked Zimmerman.

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

Not that it will probably matter, this case has become so politically charged Zimmerman is all but convicted.

bullit · « **Reply #6 on:** March 24, 2012, 09:06:18 PM »

I certainly agree with Mr. Zimmerman's right to protect himself 110%. My "issue" is his it seems he was asking for trouble. Again, I was not there, don't know all the details, and it sounds like Trayvon was not an altar boy in the slightest. That being said, being a good witness a safe distance away appears to have been an option for Mr. Zimmerman. Kind like the oft asked question when I've taught a class..."What kind of gun would you take to a gunfght?" My reply, "None, I would stay home that day."

bkoenig · « **Reply #7 on:** March 24, 2012, 09:20:19 PM »

Quote from: bullit on March 24, 2012, 09:06:18 PM

"What kind of gun would you take to a gunfght?" My reply, "None, I would stay home that day."

I think that sums it all up nicely. Even if Martin did attack Zimmerman, I don't think Zimmerman made good choices from what I've heard. Even if it's self defense it sounds like he put himself into that position.

Mudinyeri · « **Reply #8 on:** March 24, 2012, 10:01:49 PM »

Quote from: bkoenig on March 24, 2012, 09:20:19 PM

I think that sums it all up nicely. Even if Martin did attack Zimmerman, I don't think Zimmerman made good choices from what I've heard. Even if it's self defense it sounds like he put himself into that position.

Based upon the facts in evidence, it does appear that Zimmerman made at least one bad choice - he left his vehicle to follow Martin on foot.

One bad choice is the only thing standing between any of us and the feces-storm in which Zimmerman finds himself. If I recall correctly, we had a member who posted about some similarly questionable choices just a week or so ago. Fortunately for him, no one ended up dead.

omaharj · « **Reply #9 on:** March 24, 2012, 11:07:35 PM »

I shouldn't be surprised....but I am a bit. Opinions vary widely. As much as the media skews things,there is usually some facts behind the stories Here's one from the LA times. I find it hard to believe they make it all up out of thin air. The FoxNews story (Brian's link) presents the other side.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-george-zimmerman-20120323,0,6326075.story
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/03/22/trayvon-martin-case-not-as-conclusive-as-people-think-says-legal-expert/ and another view
...and Rick Santorum's view (according to the Washington Post) http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/post/trayvon-martin-case-has-been-poorly-handled-santorum-says/2012/03/23/gIQAjcB5VS_blog.html

bkoenig · « **Reply #10 on:** March 25, 2012, 01:10:53 AM »

A lesson we can all take away from this is that if you're involved in a self defense shooting there's a very good chance you will be tried in the court of public opinion, and other people WILL try to use you to further their political agenda. It's almost like the actual investigation and possible trial is just an afterthought.

Husker_Fan · « **Reply #11 on:** March 25, 2012, 08:37:13 AM »

I'm staying the hell out of this. There is too much mud in the water to know what's what.

DanClrk51 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 25, 2012, 08:46:33 AM »

Sad to say it but Santorum and Gingrich are talking too soon and will look like idiots as well as make the law look bad if Zimmerman is exonerated. I hate it when these politicians have to go and put in their 2 cents into this and judge people when they don't have all the facts. It's a shame that Mitt Romney was the one with the best response:

“What happened to Trayvon Martin is a tragedy,” Romney said. “There needs to be a thorough investigation that reassures the public that justice is carried out with impartiality and integrity.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/post/trayvon-martin-case-has-been-poorly-handled-santorum-says/2012/03/23/gIQAjcB5VS_blog.html

omaharj · « **Reply #13 on:** March 25, 2012, 09:12:51 AM »

There's a small but very important point I want to make here. If Zimmerman is found guilty or innocent wasn't my point in this thread. It was about him not being charged and using castle doctrine-stand your ground, as the reason for not charging him. At best, his following and confronting called for a complete investigation. The police opened and shut this case and used Castle Doctrine as the reason. They,(the police) are falsely using Castle Doctrine to not charge him. Perhaps there is a connection between Zimmerman and the Samford legal/law community. Perhaps someone wants to destroy Castle Doctrine by declaring it "a license to shoot up the street>" That was the argument Brenda Council used last year. Perhaps that's a tactic being employed in Florida. ....perhaps it's a combination of many things.
Defining the line where castle Doctrine applies will determine the future of self defense laws. RJ

NENick · « **Reply #14 on:** March 25, 2012, 09:47:56 AM »

May be the moral of this story is - if you're going to defend yourself, you sure as hell better not do it against someone of a different, protected race.

AAllen · « **Reply #15 on:** March 25, 2012, 11:48:11 AM »

Quote from: NENick on March 25, 2012, 09:47:56 AM

May be the moral of this story is - if you're going to defend yourself, you sure as hell better not do it against someone of a different, protected race.

Nick you hit the problem with this case on the head, because of the race issue it has become bigger that it should be.

A quote from a discussion group of firearms organization leaders that I belong to:

If, in fact it is determined that Zimmerman was not justified in the use of deadly force, Stand Your Ground will be the law that ultimately convicts him.

Zimmerman claims that Trayvon Martin attacked him. If not for Stand Your Ground, Martin would have been required to run from the man following him as his girlfriend advised him to do by phone.

Instead, Martin turned and confronted the man following him. This is corroborated by Martin's girlfriend. By all accounts, Zimmerman's and Trayvon Martin's girlfriend's, Martin appears to have rightfully Stood His Ground against a man he was reasonably in fear of.

Sean Caranna
Executive Director
Florida Carry, Inc.

There is a lot of information floating around out there that is false or out of context, and facts that are not known. Making a judgment either way would be out of place, but which ever way this goes Stand Your Ground will play a role.

Husker_Fan · « **Reply #16 on:** March 25, 2012, 01:56:16 PM »

I don't think that is correct. Stand your ground may have allowed Martin to defend himself, but if he had done so without that law in place, it would have made no difference for Zimmerman if he, in fact, was the aggressor. In that situation, you would have had at worst for Martin, a "mutual combat" situation where neither was justified.

Policista · « **Reply #17 on:** March 25, 2012, 06:13:48 PM »

Obama has already weighed in on this: “If I had a son he would have looked like Trayvon Martin.”
No matter how it turns out, I have a feeling Zimmerman is a gone’er.

HuskerXDM · « **Reply #18 on:** March 25, 2012, 10:05:29 PM »

I think Zimmerman condemned himself in the court of public opinion when the 911 dispatcher told him he didn't need to follow the kid. Obviously he did, obviously he got out of his vehicle at some point, and obviously it went downhill from there. Maybe he was getting whipped up on by a 17 year old. If only he hadn't followed and exited his vehicle this story wouldn't even be news. Regardless, it is a tragic event.

bkoenig · « **Reply #19 on:** March 25, 2012, 10:27:08 PM »

Quote from: Policista on March 25, 2012, 06:13:48 PM

Obama has already weighed in on this: “If I had a son he would have looked like Trayvon Martin.”
No matter how it turns out, I have a feeling Zimmerman is a gone’er.

The Black Panthers are offering a reward for his "capture".

Yes, from what I've heard I think he probably caused the confrontation, whether or not he actually started the physical assault. He may be guilty of murder, or just manslaughter, or just being stupid. It just eats at me that scumbags like Al Sharpton and Mikhail Muhammad are using the death of a teenager to push their own hate-based agenda. What a sad country we have become.