Author Topic: Home Defense (Read 3830 times)

FreedomOne · « **on:** February 24, 2009, 01:19:44 PM »

Would like to get some opinons of a good home defense shotgun. I have seen one in this forum that was a 12 ga with a pistol grip. I liked the idea of something simple and would get the job done. I also have held and like a 12 ga with an adjustable stock, like the kind that are on military rifles. I have read other reviews that like 20 ga, and even .410 ga for home defense. I am going to be getting something in the near future. I like the Mossberg brand, and they have several good selections. I am leaning toward the pistol grippped, or one with the adjustable stock. Any thoughts on this? Any preferences? Let me know what you think. Thanks a bunch!

ranger04 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 24, 2009, 05:01:30 PM »

I have a Mosssberg with a Knoxx stock, it orginally came with an Advanced Tech. stock it was adjustable . I like the adustable stock as it can accomodate many diffrent sized shooters and it collapses to the shortest length for less room for storage.

JimP · « **Reply #2 on:** February 24, 2009, 06:53:50 PM »

If you get a mossy, get the 835........ my 500 did not handle heavy loads well..... and is...... well ...... let's say ...... in sore need of attention by a Gun Doctor.........

FreedomOne · « **Reply #3 on:** February 25, 2009, 12:30:38 AM »

I have seen and like the idea of that Knoxx Blackhawk stock! That would allow both my wife and I to shoot the same gun. I am not aware of Mossbergs not being able to handle 2 3/4" or 3" which is as large as I would go. For around the home, I would think 2 3/4" with buckshot would be good enough. The 835 looks like it's more for hunting. In your opinion, the "Gun Doctor" would do what to improve a 500? I do appreciate all the feedback! Thanks!

WarHorse1961 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 25, 2009, 04:01:06 AM »

Forget the pistol grip, unless it also has a shoulder stock with it. Sure, a shotgun puts a bigger hole down range, but it still needs to be aimed. Much easier done from the shoulder than from the hip.

I've got a Mossberg 590 Mariner. I added a red dot sight and mounted a flashlight on the end of the magazine tube. It works great. But if you want a shoulder stock/pistol grip shotgun, I'd go with the Remington 870. You'll be able to reach the safely while holding the shotgun in the firing position. Can't do that with the Mossberg.

Don't forget about those coach guns either. Stoeger makes some good ones (http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger_coach_guns.php). And, if money is no object, you can always go with the Benelli M-4 (http://www.benelliusa.com/shotguns/benelli_m4.php).

Engineer5 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 25, 2009, 03:52:29 PM »

You certainly don't need anything fancy. You can pick up your garden variety pump action very cheap if you do some looking around.

JimP · « **Reply #6 on:** February 26, 2009, 02:59:42 PM »

"In your opinion, the "Gun Doctor" would do what to improve a 500?"

........ not my opinion- the 'gun (witch?)doctor' at the Carl Jarl Locksmith place told me the 500 was not designed for hard use with magnum loads, and that could be why it started to go "click" occasionally when it should have gone "BANG!" ...... he suggested I bring it in. I found another shotgun (used) and have retired the mossy until I have money to ~~burn~~ fix it.........

Dtrain323i · « **Reply #7 on:** February 26, 2009, 07:22:02 PM »

I'm also looking for a good HD 12 gauge. I've heard that the Mossberg is better for lefties (of which i am one). Is there any truth to this?

Jay · « **Reply #8 on:** February 26, 2009, 07:48:32 PM »

I have a mossy 500 with a pistol grip that I really like. I don't know about how well it would hold up over a long period of time, because I don't use it for anything else other than the occasional practice session, and most of that is with bird shot, but so far it has functioned flawlessly.

I like the pistol grip. I have practiced clearing the house with it, and with my 12 ga with full stock, (UNLOADED OF COURSE, AND NEVER WHILE ANYONE ELSE IS IN ANY OF THE ROOMS I AM IN OR ADJACENT TO) and I prefer the pistol grip. I have practiced firing it using a stance and grip that pretty much puts it up along side my chest, and I am as accurate as I need to be with it. Of course, with basically my wrist and arm absorbing all the recoil, I couldn't fire it all day like that, but I can get through the mag tube just fine like that, and if 8 rounds weren't enough in my little house, then I've got big problems anyways.

I have often thought about buying one of those flip up folding stocks for it, or an ATI adjustable, but I just have not been able to talk myself into spending the money on it.

Rich B · « **Reply #9 on:** February 27, 2009, 04:05:56 PM »

I don't care for pistol-grip shotguns due to the recoil.

Remington offers an 870 7-shot synthetic that is pretty good out of the box for home defense. Add a light and maybe a side saddle and you'll be good to go.

They also have the Desert TAC for those who want something different.

I'm pleased with my 870, but I'd take an AR over a shotgun any day for home defense.

iiranger · « **Reply #10 on:** March 03, 2009, 02:30:46 PM »

The first thing you must remember is that if you find yourself in this kind of confrontation, odds are HIGH, 90% plus, that your opponent will be all messed up on chemicals. Alcohol, anymore, is just what they "wash it down" with. SO, if you shoot, just one shot, even if you hit center, may not have much effect... Might make them mad... You want to be ready to shoot again as necessary. You might also miss. Adrenalin... shakes, dirty pants, etc. Ask a "combat veteran." Known two, CLOSE. Both said the same thing; 1),. Anyone who claims to "love combat" is probably lying about his/her experienceS or 2). he/she is NUTS!!!

You need to be prepared to take cover and hit 911 on cell phones (more than one) and hold your fire if at all possible. You shoot and you better have a GREAT criminal attorney on speed dial... No, the guy who did your parents will is not necessarily up to it... And the cops will not be sympathetic. You will be busted and booked etc. Roughly...

With this in mind, you pick your weapon knowing it might not work. With adrenalin pumping people do silly things. You might forget to take the safety off. MIGHT. Or load the gun... 20 gauges are nice inside because the recoil is less and if you hit with that load --target loads are plenty-- it will do almost as much damage as a 12 at close range while you can shoot again quicker. 410? Little light.

While the pistol grip configuration is somewhat handier inside, you give up the possibility of using the butt for a club. You swap someone with a "butt stroke" up into the chin or turn and use the whole butt against the chest or skull... Nice options. --If you know how, you can kill with the toe quite easily.

You might start by reading Audie Murphy's biography. He probably killed more white men in the 20th century than any other man. It is called combat. In his experience it was "The European Theater, WW II." Received every combat medal available including the Medal of Honor. Spent the rest of his life sleeping with a pistol under his pillow. Lost 3 wives who got tired of being pistol whipped in his nightmares. You just might want to save that last shell for yourself. Might. Luck.

Rule#.308 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 04, 2009, 08:48:23 PM »

Boy iiranger you pretty much covered the bases. While the firearms I have that are not in the safe which I consider "Home defense" are hand guns. That being said, I cannot imagine a more fearsome weapon than a short yet legal 12 ga. loaded with Mr. DuPonts 00 buck shot, whether it be slide action (I prefer the 870 due to the safety loacation) or double barrel (hammerless with a thumb safety on the tang). The U.S. Military knew full well how valuable the shotgun was in confined areas when they issued the "Trench gun" during WW I and it still in use to this day in one fashion or another. You hit em in the chest with a load of buck and he's going down, I don't care how far into the ozone he is.

People talk alot about night sights, flashlights and so on, but the bottom line is some badass or group of same have just kicked your door in at 3 a.m. taking you away from the Swedish bikini team, and are moving through your house at a rapid rate on a pre conceived mission. You have only seconds to wake up, get the crud out of your eyes, grab your weapon and respond. Some of you may be trying to turn on your flash lights, which in my opinion only show the bad guys exactly where you are. (Me, I want to be backed into a dark, tight corner where I can cover a wide area), In the mean time your significant other is screaming bloody murder, the kids are awake and hollering and you are praying to God the little tykes are not up and moving about checking out the ruckus.

I guess all I am saying is, If God forbid, the worst happens, the last thing you want is a prolonged fire fight inside your house, the fact that you have 2 twenty round clips is great if you are involved in a seige, but best case scenario is bad guy comes in, you respond quicky and the bad guy is down and if there is more than one, in all probability they are beating feet from the report of the 12 ga. which has also awakened your neighbors. This has all happened before your childrens feet hit the floor to investigate or your significant other could start sceaming. I think Mr. Hickock summed it up best when he said "Take your time, but hurry up". Bottom line is there is no better home defense weapon than a shot gun and shooting it from the hip is as easy as picking your nose when your blood is up. Think of it as if you are sending 12 to 15 .20 caliber rounds of pure lead at high velocity down range every time you pull the trigger. In real time that figures to at least 30 rounds a second if you have a good slide action. By the way, as a side note, on most of the slides I have used, you only have to pull the trigger once if you continue to hold it down while working the slide vigorously.

A-FIXER · « **Reply #12 on:** March 04, 2009, 10:10:07 PM »

Good sumatation, Rule that why a pisol grip style available for the mossberg 500 folding stock and front grip to(remove the recoil from just 1 hand). cost appx.99.00 cabelas last I looked and I as well like it dark I know my house better than them. the durabilty of the mossberg is akin to the remington 870 most police use the mossberg for the crusiers weapons of choice but most are now upgrading to the ar tactical of choice. I do agree that at point of contact you will not need sights or have it shoulderd to aim, but for the sake of others I put an laser on it and activate it with pressure switch. hope this helps.

iiranger · « **Reply #13 on:** March 18, 2009, 01:33:34 PM »

Don't forget the Ithaca 37 shotguns. Lack of ejection port makes them slightly more short/handy, they are unbelieveably simple and reliable, and the company's business difficulties have made some real cheap. If you shoot you want to contain the shot, bird shot will do tremendous damage at close range and not penetrate multiple layers of wall board reliably... and when times comes for your defense... I grabbed the first shells I came to, I guess I had them out for quail...

As suggested, and i forgot, these animals tend to run in packs. You will NOT, in all likelihood, face "one." As in the BS movies... And if you hit "it" and it goes down it will not lay there quietly... And on drugs... find a real combat vet if you can and ask... Some keep coming with parts shot away... And as suggested, if you fire the gun into the floor or ceiling before they enter, the cowards are likely to flee with dirty underwear... most are not looking for a fight, easy pickin's or leave/RUN...

Any cell phone, charged, is, supposedly able to call 911. 911 gets two or three calls or more they will go nuts and respond with police, fire... (don't talk to them, let them wonder...) more good guys the merrier if you have not shot someone, let them... badges (color of law) which you DO NOT have... Have a couple more for the family members who can reach them to hit speed dial 911...

If you want to play games (you better be a "cold" MF)... hit speed dial in front of the invader THEN toss the phone onto a couch or papers or

(soft, you don't want it to break)... 90% of the time, the invader will try to reach the phone to turn off the call, and while he/she/it has turned away you buttstroke the head neck/back/spine, etc... and kill them without firing... !!! Saves ammo...

And the courts, outside the most rural jurisdictions, will not be sympathetic. You are cheating them out of work. Why they could lock this clown(s) up for many years, counsel him/her/it, --[MAKE MONEY, LOTS!]... You kill him, oh well... And you might have "over reacted" ... You did think your life was in danger... silly person.. Ergo

If you have a pistol grip shotgun, well the persecuting attorney will argue to the jury that you are a blood thirsty animal who prepared for this day because you wanted to kill someone just to see what it feels like, cf Leopold and Lobe... And you stocked buckshot just to see the big holes and ... Read Ayoobs books, he covers it nicely...

Now if you (your attorney) can say, "I hunt birds"... (some, PETA and the like, will hate you immediately, anyway) and I heard this ruckus and I reached for my bird gun and it went off into the floor/ceiling while I was trying to load it with shells left over from

... and you let the "good guys" with badges shoot the rectal spinchters... a jury will be a whole lot more sympathetic... He was just trying to defend his family with his bird gun..." etc... Slobber, slobber... LUCK!!!

bob519 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 23, 2009, 09:29:06 PM »

Don't forget to consider that at night inside a building the db level as well as the muzzle flash is amplified. If you leave your eyes open as you squeeze the trigger I can guarantee that your night vision will be destroyed for several moments. Folks don't generally think to don hearing protection either as they grab their shotgun to ward off a home invasion. It sure would suck to be blind AND deaf under such a circumstance.

Randy · « **Reply #15 on:** March 26, 2009, 01:18:45 AM »

Eye Sight, Hearing and Dead Good Organ Donor
Blind, Deaf and Alive I can accept that.

I understand what you are saying bob519.
In these situations there just is no time to be worrying about your ear plugs and dark safety glasses.
Hearing will return and you could always shut your eyes for a second.
Which many people due unintended even when shooting at targets.

00BUCK · « **Reply #16 on:** April 11, 2009, 10:27:04 PM »

Just an FYI, A mossy 500 without the vented rib can be cut down nicely with any typical decent quality tubing cutter. A little file work aftwards and some cold blue and you are good to go. You can also drill and tap pretty easy to put the original bead back on. I've done it to several of them and each has come out great. And I NEVER make a cut of less than 18 1/2" just to be safe.

And , just my opinion here, all you need is 2 3/4" high brass standard load 00buck for home defense. It's not like you are trying to hit a goose at 30 yards ....

bullit · « **Reply #17 on:** April 24, 2009, 09:32:04 PM »

Ever seen what a Rem 870 Youth Express 18" Barrel in 20 Ga 000 Buck will do?

IMHO perfect CQB shotgun for in house distances especially for a female. Yes, go compare with your HG rounds ye doubters......

FreedomOne · « **Reply #18 on:** April 25, 2009, 06:58:23 AM »

I have read that in certain, intense, high stress situations like a home invasion that your adrenaline is running so high that gun blasts don't hurt your hearing, or your eyesight. Just my two cents worth. I did go with a Mossberg 500. I have modified it some already with some add on parts. I will have to get a picture or two of it and post it. Thanks for all the suggestions and great talk here! Keep it going, if you like!

wrenrj1 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 20, 2009, 08:14:08 PM »

Quote from: Rich B on February 27, 2009, 04:05:56 PM

I don't care for pistol-grip shotguns due to the recoil.

Remington offers an 870 7-shot synthetic that is pretty good out of the box for home defense. Add a light and maybe a side saddle and you'll be good to go.

I've got one of these as well, however in moving forward in my thinking, I'd like to look at using a 20 gauge as well in a similar configuration. Also consider the shot load you are shooting. 12 Ga. 3 inch. 00 buck hurts especially if you are going to sustain any rate of fire. I went to 2 3/4 #4 shot.

I need to add that my shotty would be my last resort among my current options for home defense, but damn it hurts!

Wren

Author Topic: Home Defense (Read 3830 times)

A-FIXER