Research on Reloading 9mm

[OnTheFly]

I am considering reloading 9mm for target shooting.  Just some generic 115gr round nose jacketed (or maybe plated) bullets to start.

Could you tell me the best deal you have found on cases, bullets, primers and powder in the following format for each?

Retailer:
Brand:
Quantity:
Price (Including shipping):

Thank you,
Fly

[SemperFiGuy]

FLY

You might try www.berrysbullets.com.

In 9mm 115gr they have three different offerings.   Here's one:
#19355 - Box of 250   $25.30

They offer even better prices for quantities of 1000.   Shipping is free (and pretty fast) if order is over $50.00.   They are in St. George, UT.   My order last Friday (late night) arrived mid-day on Wednesday, this week.

Bullets are plated, not jacketed.   Can't go over, say---1200 fps, but you aren't going to do so anyhow on light load target ammo.

I've loaded 3-4 thousand, including the hollow base variety.   They work very well for me.   Other people at the range speak well of their experience with them.

Berrysbullets are excellent quality, especially considering the price.   Their #43234 124gr .356 FP bullets work consistently and accurately in my .357Sig reloads at about 1200 FPS.

Good luck on your search.   My apologies for format rearrangement.


sfg     

[OnTheFly]

Thanks for the reply SemperFiGuy.  I did find Berry's Bullets online and had incorporated their 1,000 bullet pricing in my calculations.

The reason I am asking for this information, is that I am trying to figure out just how much money I can save by reloading myself.  I downloaded a spreadsheet where you plug in all the information and it produces a price (per round, 100, etc.).  It even considers how many times you plan to reload the brass in its calculations.  However, what I am finding is that I am only saving at the most about $8.00 per 100 rounds and at the least about $3 per 100 rounds.  If I step up my shooting and reload 3,000 rounds, that means I save $90 on the low end and $240 on the high side.  This does not even include buying reloading equipment since my friend said I could use his.

The other aspect I am looking at is that if I was good at it, I have been told that I could crank out 1,000 rounds per hour.  So just reloading, not including case prep time, etc., I will be at this for 3 hours.

With all the things I have going on, including trying to find time to shoot, it does not seem like reloading is going to be that worthwhile considering the time and financial expenditure. 

I keep having people tell me how much they save on shooting and that "You may spend the same as you were buying factory ammo, but you will get to shoot a lot more".  I would like to have someone show me with hard numbers for ALL their reloading supplies (including shipping) and compare that to some of the deals I have been able to find locally or online for factory ammo.  From my calculations, I'm not seeing a huge savings.

Fly

[whatsit]

@OnTheFly I've got to agree with you. I shoot 9mm, too. When I looked into it, I had to factor in the cost of reloading equipment, too and it just wasn't worth it for me. I can watch Walmart and catch the WWB or Federal sales and save more money than buying reloading equipment.

The best arguments I've heard for reloading are either: 1) the ammo you shoot isn't made or is hard to find (9mm is everywhere so that one's out). 2) It's relaxing and a good way to spend your time -- I'm cool with that one, but like you mentioned, 3 hours for 1k rounds... I don't know... I understand those that do it for this reason, but I'm not sure this would be relaxing, for me. So, I buy my ammo.

Just FYI, you can get re-manufactured ammo online if you're willing to risk your gun on someone else's reloading skills / operation. I've heard good things about Jack Ross ammo and Freedom Ammunitions, but haven't tried either, yet. When you factor in shipping, you might run into the same mathematical problems.

[NE Bull]

Fly.  I save a little on .38s and quite a bit more on .45 even with buying the supplies and giving my brother a little extra per hundred for him reloading it all.  But the biggest thing for me is being able to find that load that works the best for me and my gun.  We were able to 'build' a .38 special load that shoots a pattern I could not get anywhere near with factory ammo.  Most factory ammo is 'tuned' to be average in the most popular firearm. As in my case I have 4 inch revolvers but the more popular pistol would probably be a 2" snubby.  Factory ammo got flighty after 10 yards, with our reloads I am still holding a decent group out to 15-20.  The .45ACP I was able to go with a 185gr bullet (berry's) and a load that reduced recoil, but tightened up groupings, big time. (of course at speed I still can't hit crud, but..)   What I'm saying is when you are doing your figurin', keep in mind the Factory ammo you are buying cheap in bulk (while good enough) is nothing compared to 'custom' rounds.   
Brother shoots Cowboy Action and has tuned pistol rounds for recoil, and has rifle rounds built for long range.  With some research and trial I have seen him built some awesome rounds.
Oh, yeah, we also have went to Berry's plated for everything (other than SASS)
Once again, my $.02

[OnTheFly]

NEBull,

That is one thing I thought of, but forgot to include with my post.  My friend with the reloading equipment is very good at finding the best round (case weight, bullet weight, grains of powder, overall round length, etc.) for a specific rifle. 

I can see how critical it is with your short barreled revolvers.  However, for the pistol shooters, the accuracy consideration does not seem to be brought up.  I don't ever get the advice, "You should reload so your rounds are über accurate".  It is always about the cost. 

I would be curious to hear from J. Thomas Howard on how much effort he puts into designing his loads.  When/If I ever get to his level where everyone comes to a match just so they can watch me win , then I will likely start hand loading.  The way I look at it right now, what I need is time to shoot (which means the least amount of time doing other things such as reloading) and as much practice as I can get.  Hopefully, as Thomas preaches, dry firing will improve my skills without having to spend a lot on ammunition, but there are just some things that you can not do with dry firing. 

My shooting has improved considerably in the last couple of months.  Some of this is due to the classes I have taken with Precision Response Training, but some of it is due to the sheer number of rounds I have fired over the last couple of months.  It is probably over a thousand.  That has got me over the initial hump of cringing every time the gun went "BANG" and the basic instinct to manly control the recoil to the point of being too tense in my stance, grip, and everything else.  I can actually watch the front sight during the entire firing, muzzle rise, trigger reset, trigger prep, and bringing the front sight back on target.  That is definitely something I could not have gotten used to with dry fire alone.

Fly

[Dan W]

No way you are going to load 1000 rounds per hour

[OnTheFly]

No way you are going to load 1000 rounds per hour

That is what some Walmart guy told me.  That sure sounded high to me, but I thought I would use that as a high end, pie in the sky, best scenario figure.  Thanks for confirming that is unrealistic.  It is pushing me further towards buying commercial ammo for the time being.

Fly

[sparky0068]

I used to load for 9 with a progressive.  Reloading ammo equates to more shooting, not necessarily saving money, also you can dial in the load for the gun exactly how you want it.  I can load about 4-500 per hour.  I am currently without  anything in 9 soooo........

[OnTheFly]

I used to load for 9 with a progressive.  Reloading ammo equates to more shooting, not necessarily saving money, also you can dial in the load for the gun exactly how you want it.  I can load about 4-500 per hour.  I am currently without  anything in 9 soooo........

Sparky...Your statement "Reloading ammo equates to more shooting, not necessarily saving money,..." is exactly what I have heard from others, but from what I have found the savings is minimal for the time invested.  The reason I asked for prices on supplies for reloading is I want someone to prove to me that I will be able to shoot more.  As I described above, I can save a few dollars, but is 6+ hours of reloading (using the high end of your round per hour estimate) to load 3,000 rounds worth saving possibly only $90? 

So what I am saying is, the canned statement "You won't save money, but you'll shoot more" is not computing.  It may look even better when I don't include sales tax or shipping for the components, but I'm way too detailed of a person to do that.  The accuracy of custom loads, would be the biggest benefit in my mind.

I don't mean to burst anyone's bubble, but PROVE it to me that you are saving and able to shoot that much more with 9mm.

By the way, when I was doing my calculations for the numbers above, I was buying bulk everything.  5,000 bullets from Berry's, 1,000 primers, 1,000+ cases, and the biggest container of powder I could find.

Fly

[bullit]

For comparison in your study.....I've been buying BVAC (Bitter Root Valley Ammunition Company) 1000 round 115 gr FMJ reload bulk for around $8.95/50 (I use 50 to compare to buying equivlent number in the store, etc.).  Buying from Cheaper Than Dirt, throw in $14 shipping I still feel I am coming out ahead.  It is clean shooting, great performing ammo. 
CDNN has NEW Speer Lawman 115 gr FMJ in 1000 round cases for 28 cents per round and $9.99 shipping for as much as you want.

[OnTheFly]

For comparison in your study.....I've been buying BVAC (Bitter Root Valley Ammunition Company) 1000 round 115 gr FMJ reload bulk for around $8.95/50 (I use 50 to compare to buying equivlent number in the store, etc.).  Buying from Cheaper Than Dirt, throw in $14 shipping I still feel I am coming out ahead.  It is clean shooting, great performing ammo. 
CDNN has NEW Speer Lawman 115 gr FMJ in 1000 round cases for 28 cents per round and $9.99 shipping for as much as you want.

Thanks bullit.  I will look into those.

Fly

[sparky0068]

As of right now I am saving $.03 per round on 9mm ball.  My reason for hand loading was to build a load exactly how I wanted, not how remchesterfederal says.

When you have time like sitting in the evenings watching tv, I could crank out ammo on the progressive like no other, on the flip side when I have more ammo sitting around I find reasons to go to the range and turn my money into noise.

Now if you are going to reload rifle, you can save money, but alas your time does equal something.

[Ram Ringer]

Reloading is mostly a hobby for me, but some of the stuff I reload is a little more specialized for handgun silhoutte. So I already ahve most of the equiptment, although it has taken me years to accumulate the stuff. One of the things I can tell you is to load a few rounds then go test it to make sure they are going to function. correctly in your gun. Sometimes this does not have anything to do with how you reload, but with the components. I was recently cranking out the rounds of 9mm, same load same bullets, same powder the only thing I changed was the primers I normally shoot federal primers, but trying to save money I tried magtech and remington. I just today finally shot up those loads. The main problems with these brands for me were they are harder than Federal. I had I lot of solid strikes with the firing pin, but no bang. This happened in three different 9's each one a different brand. I compared these loads along side federal primers and factory loads. The latter two showed no problems.

I don't know if this will help and sorry if I got long winded but there you go for my .02 worth

Galen

[JTH]

I just noticed this thread, so I thought I'd chime in here---I reload 9mm, since that is almost exclusively what I shoot.

I use Montana Gold bullets, winchester primers, Winchester Super Field powder, and range brass.    Way back when I bought 1000 cases to start with, and have never bought since---and current in addition to the several thousand rounds I have loaded up, have literally 7 buckets of 9mm brass waiting to be cleaned and used. 

So I don't actually factor in any cost of brass for reloading.    If you do need to buy brass, don't bother doing it at the store, just go here and buy a couple thousand---then pick up everything at the range. 

http://www.once-fired-brass.com/

I shoot 124gr bullets, but if I were to do the 115gr route, here is what it would cost me:

4000 115gr Montana Gold FMJ:  $303 (includes shipping)
5000 primers (Guns Unlimited, buy by the case):  $139 ($130 plus tax)
8lb keg of WSF (would actually make over 11000 rounds):  $160  (note, this is a guess, I don't remember exactly how much this costs, I think it may actually be less)

Pro-rating this to 1000 rounds,
Bullets:  75.75
Primers: 27.80
Powder: 14.55
Total:  188.10
So....cost per 50 is about $5.91

Now, how much do *I* actually spend?

Well, I buy the primers and powder at those prices, though I buy a lot more.  (And more often.) The amount per round doesn't change, though.

However, when I buy bullets, I buy at the 5-case price from Montana Gold.  Even buying the 124gr CMJ (not FMJ) bullets, I still get a serious deal.

https://www.montanagoldbullet.com/pricelist.html

I normally do my bullet buy at the beginning of the year---this year I bought 5 cases of 124gr CMJ (3750 bullets per case) at $315 per case---so spent $1575 for 18,750 bullets.  (I also bought 7500 .40S&W bullets for my wife, so the mailman HATED me when about 500 pounds of bullets showed up and he had to carry them in.)

My 115gr example above had 115gr FMJ, 4000 for $305 --- .07625 per bullet

When I bought mine:  124gr CMJ, the above price --- .084 per bullet.

So I'm only paying about 39 cents more per box of 50 than what I calculated above.

Bulk buying helps.    If you can't buy that much on your own, get together with some friends, and buy collectively.  Or get together with me at the beginning of the year and we'll buy lots.

So, for me----reloading is a SIGNIFICANT savings over buying factory.  I'll definitely shoot over 18,000 rounds this year (so I'm going to have to buy more bullets), and if each box costs me about $6.50, which is about $3 less per box than cheap factory ammo that isn't as consistent or as useful for competition shooting---after 18,000 rounds (or 360 boxes) I'm saving myself about $1080.  Not including tax. 

Worth it. 

As for reloading speed----I started with a single-stage press.  (RCBS Rock Chucker)  Good press, NOT fast.  Bought a Dillon 550, which is a GREAT press. Loads everything, progressive, can get about 400-600 an hour depending on what you are loading, completely reliable.  For most people, a 550 is THE way to go.

I went to the Rogers Shooting School for a week last year, and when I came back, my wife had bought me a Dillon Super 1050.      

I love this thing.  It is NOT cheap---but I can easily reload 1000 rounds an hour.  More like 1200.  It takes me an average of 5.5 minutes to reload 100 rounds.  20 seconds to dump in more primers and bullets, and another 5.5 minutes later, I've got another 100 rounds. 

Tricky to set up, takes some getting used to, but well worth it for me, since I only reload 9mm.  (If you are reloading several different types/calibers of ammo, a 550 or a 650 is the way to go.)  But if you are doing serious amounts of one load, the Super 1050 is fantastic.

But it IS expensive.  (It is their industrial-capacity press.  Make for factory use.)

I'm all for reloading---but it IS a large outlay at the beginning.  A 550 plus everything you need is a nice chunk of change (if you are going to do this, buy from BrianEnos.com!) plus buying the components up front is kind of a kick in the @#$&*^ because all the cost hits you at once. 

BrianEnos:  http://www.brianenos.com/store/dillon.html

After that---it is like free ammo for the rest of the year. 

For me----reloading is why I can afford to shoot as much as I do. 

[jonm]

5 cases at a time . My last order was for 6k and I thought that was a lot. We should try to set up a group buy for those of us that can't afford to order in that much bulk.

[JTH]

5 cases at a time . My last order was for 6k and I thought that was a lot. We should try to set up a group buy for those of us that can't afford to order in that much bulk.

Make sense to me.  Montana Gold has shipping included in their prices, so it doesn't do anything other than help bring the case price down.  (Meaning it doesn't hurt, it only helps.)

Like I said, I normally do my large bullet buy in January/Feb or so (that way I have Feb/Mar to reload a bunch before serious practice starts).  It is true that this year I might need to put in another order around October, though, since I'm going to Nationals, and REALLY want to get some practice in this summer.  I use 124 gr, however...

For those who want 115 gr bullets:  $900 gets you 12,000 9mm 115gr FMJ shipped to you--three people each spending $300 would make it work, and each person would get their own box of 4000 bullets.  Any more cases than that would still be only $300 per 4000 rounds.

(If anyone wants to try some 124gr, I'll make a comment about it on this forum whenever I next buy some, in case someone else wants to buy also.  I like it for competition purposes, plus it is the same bullet weight as the self-defense hollowpoints that I carry.)

[jonm]

Please let me know when you do, I would love to jump in on that deal.

FWIW 124gr Precision Delta has slightly lower prices than Montana Gold though they aren't fully encapsulated. You would have to order 10K to get the $78/k price

[JTH]

Please let me know when you do, I would love to jump in on that deal.

FWIW 124gr Precision Delta has slightly lower prices than Montana Gold though they aren't fully encapsulated. You would have to order 10K to get the $78/k price

Precision Delta is a little cheaper, true.  The $78/K price is for the 115s, though.  It is $81/K for the 124s (if ordering over 10K.)  Still slightly cheaper than MG, though.

In my case, I have had good, extremely consistent results with the MG bullets.  And while PD bullets are okay, I would use them for practice but not for competitions---and since the MGs aren't that much more, it is easier for me to just buy all MG for practice and competition, and not have to make any changes to my reloading setup. 

This whole thing really is a tradeoff, after all.  Reloading is merely trading time for money---takes time to reload, but costs are cheaper.  But it is a volume sort of situation.  If you are only going to shoot a couple of thousand rounds a year, just buy some bulk Wolf ammo (assuming you have a Glock or something else that doesn't care what the ammo is) and shoot it. 

If you are going to shoot more---well, then it might be worth it. 

[RLMoeller]

Montana Gold is usually in stock.  PD is usually shipped a few weeks after you order.  So how soon you want them might be a factor.