open carry almost gone bad in lincoln

[BV]

Well I just got back from doing a little grocery shopping in Lincoln, during which I was open carrying. I do have a CHP and usually conceal, but sometimes if I'm not going to be out long I'll open carry. It's rare for me, but it does happen. Anyway, as I'm checking out I overhear a conversation between another customer and the clerk in the next lane over. They're using phrases like "crisis averted", but talking fairly quietly. I grab my bags and start to leave when the customer from the next lane gets my attention and tells me that "you should wear something (while motioning in the area of his left breast, in the general location LEOs wear their badge) that says its ok for you to have that.(pointing at my pistol)" and "I almost tackled you on the way in." I politely informed him, as well as both cashiers since they were watching intently, that Nebraska is an open carry state and explained to them what that meant. I also informed him, as politely as I could, that tackling me for simply trying to go grocery shopping could quite likely end up with him being arrested for assault. His reply to that was "and thats the sad thing". At that point I reiterated that what I was doing was perfectly legal and then continued on my way.
I'm posting this because I've seen in some of the older threads where people have asked for any negative stories regarding open carry. But I'm also posting because I'm wondering if anyone has suggestions for what I can do to help raise people's awareness of the law. I'm certainly not looking to try to provoke a situation just to provide an oppurtunity to talk to people. Had this man actually tackled me on my way into the store, all I would have know was that I was being attacked. That alone is a dangerous enough situation, but if he'd attempted to disarm me, the situation likely would have turned lethal as all I would know was that a large man was attacking me and trying to take my pistol. All because a well intentioned but very misguided citizen thought he was doing the right thing. This is an extreme example, but a good reminder of why I usually conceal in this state.
Bottom line, I'm looking for something I can get involved with that helps educate the public about the law without turning into a youtube spectacle.

[lneuke]

It's sad that open carry is frowned upon and incites reactions such as this from the general public.  It really would be great if open carrying would be acceptable in a public place, however, we do not live in such a world.  Open carrying in public is one heck of a way to NOT gain any support for gun rights, all it does is hurt our cause through creating additional fear.  In our anti-gun society, it is not a good idea to be showing off our rights in the faces of gun-hating voters (especially when you have a CHP already). 

I know this video is a little long (14 min) but you should definitely watch.





As far as creating awareness, first I would think we would need to raise acceptance of firearms in general.  When people see that guns aren't "evil" and are merely tools wielded by humans, then they may find open carry acceptable.

[Mikee Loxxer]

"I'm certainly not looking to try to provoke a situation just to provide an oppurtunity to talk to people."

However you did just that and as you pointed it out could have been tragic (a very needless tragedy). Why weren't you carrying concealed? I don't see how the duration of your trip has any bearing on your method of carry.

[dcjulie]

But I'm also posting because I'm wondering if anyone has suggestions for what I can do to help raise people's awareness of the law. I'm certainly not looking to try to provoke a situation just to provide an oppurtunity to talk to people. Had this man actually tackled me on my way into the store, all I would have know was that I was being attacked. That alone is a dangerous enough situation, but if he'd attempted to disarm me, the situation likely would have turned lethal as all I would know was that a large man was attacking me and trying to take my pistol. All because a well intentioned but very misguided citizen thought he was doing the right thing. This is an extreme example, but a good reminder of why I usually conceal in this state.
Bottom line, I'm looking for something I can get involved with that helps educate the public about the law without turning into a youtube spectacle.

Well, here at the NFOA, we have just the thing for you ...

Seriously, if you want to get involved, simply speak up.  The board of directors meet online at the beginning of every month, and we are looking for people willing to step up and help out.  If you are interested in being more active, please let us know (you can send me a PM if you want).  I can bring it to the BOD this next meeting and we can get you involved.  We have new elections coming up soon, so if you want on the board, let us know that, too.

Otherwise, hang in there.  People are stupid and react emotionally to many things.  I'm glad that you didn't get injured, and that you did not have to defend yourself against assault.  I'm actually somewhat surprised that the guy did say something to you, as I've seen people turn their heads and walk away - not wanting to get involved.  Hopefully, you gave this guy something constructive to think about.

[Dan W]

All I can say is your timing is very poor considering recent events

[BV]

dcjulie, I want to thank you for posting a constructive response rather than assuming I am uneducated about the pros and cons of open vs concealed carry or just out right criticizing open carry. However, while the NFOA certainly seems to have been instrumental in helping to push through legislation and will likely continue to be so, its not legislation that I'm looking to get involved with directly. Its certainly important, and I support those that are directly involved, but its not something I'm looking to be active with right now. Perhaps thats not all the NFOA does, but its all I've seen.
To the rest. I understand you don't like open carry, and I understand the reasons why. But I lived in WV for many years and have only been back in the midwest a short time. So WV is still fresh in my mind. Out there (at least the part of the state I lived in) open carry was very common. I can't remember a single business that banned firearms other than the college. Anywhere I went it was normal to see several people open carrying. We had a state maintained free outdoor range for both pistol and rifle. I even knew a guy that 2 or 3 times a month rode through the city and out to the range on his motorcycle with his AK-47 on his back and never once got hassled by the police for it. And all this was in a democratic state. Then I move to NE, a republican state, and suddenly guns are no where to be seen and are apparantly percieved as evil. Its hard to wrap my head around that twisted reality. Add to that my years in armed security(ie. being required to open carry), and yes, I'm comfortable with open carry. I do understand that not everyone that will see me necessarily is.
Perhaps there is no answer. Perhaps NE is a lost cause. If the majority of members in what appears to be the states most influential gun rights group have come to see open carry the same way the liberals see firearms ownership, well then perhaps the liberals have already won. I'm sure this post will likely upset many members, and for that I apologize. I simply spoke my mind. I'm also sure that many people will try to tear me apart for my opinions. And thats ok. I'm clearly out of touch with NE. So I will it to you all.

[lneuke]

Don't take what I said the wrong way, and after re-watching that video I noticed they used some harsh phrases that I don't support (something like "we don't want you representing gun owners").  From your initial post it seemed you were open carrying more or less just because you can, and not out of necessity.  I have full confidence that as a CCW holder you have sound logic in your reasoning for concealed carry, and I'm sure you know that part of being a gun owner is being aware of your surroundings.  As the video stated, in certain places open carry is very acceptable.  In fact, I used to open carry in my vehicle and other accepting places before I received my CCP.  However, given the recent news events and the fact that the bigger cities in NE aren't very accepting of guns, you definitely made a mistake in open carrying.  You shouldn't use the excuse that you're so comfortable around guns that you felt it was alright to open carry.  Everything you said is truth however, it is a twisted reality and it's a damn shame.  I hope there is a day where we can acceptably open carry anywhere, but now isn't the time.

I still stand by my original post, and feel that if you didn't find it constructive other members will.  I also still feel that we should first concentrate on the public's acceptability of firearms, rather than focusing on raising awareness of our firearms rights.

[NENick]

dcjulie, I want to thank you for posting a constructive response rather than assuming I am uneducated about the pros and cons of open vs concealed carry or just out right criticizing open carry. However, while the NFOA certainly seems to have been instrumental in helping to push through legislation and will likely continue to be so, its not legislation that I'm looking to get involved with directly. Its certainly important, and I support those that are directly involved, but its not something I'm looking to be active with right now. Perhaps thats not all the NFOA does, but its all I've seen.
To the rest. I understand you don't like open carry, and I understand the reasons why. But I lived in WV for many years and have only been back in the midwest a short time. So WV is still fresh in my mind. Out there (at least the part of the state I lived in) open carry was very common. I can't remember a single business that banned firearms other than the college. Anywhere I went it was normal to see several people open carrying. We had a state maintained free outdoor range for both pistol and rifle. I even knew a guy that 2 or 3 times a month rode through the city and out to the range on his motorcycle with his AK-47 on his back and never once got hassled by the police for it. And all this was in a democratic state. Then I move to NE, a republican state, and suddenly guns are no where to be seen and are apparantly percieved as evil. Its hard to wrap my head around that twisted reality. Add to that my years in armed security(ie. being required to open carry), and yes, I'm comfortable with open carry. I do understand that not everyone that will see me necessarily is.
Perhaps there is no answer. Perhaps NE is a lost cause. If the majority of members in what appears to be the states most influential gun rights group have come to see open carry the same way the liberals see firearms ownership, well then perhaps the liberals have already won. I'm sure this post will likely upset many members, and for that I apologize. I simply spoke my mind. I'm also sure that many people will try to tear me apart for my opinions. And thats ok. I'm clearly out of touch with NE. So I will it to you all.

I'm with ya on this. Unfortunately, two plus two equals purple nowadays.

[wallace11bravo]

Coming into someone else's house and insulting them is not a good way to start off here. With the forum, the organization, or the state in general. There are people here who have given countless hours and dollars to start up and maintain this organization. Including people who pushed through CC in this state in the first place.

Personally, I've never sided too much with or against OC. I do not teach pistol, and have never had a student ask my opinion. I haven't OC since I got my CHP, and when I did it was out of legal necessity. After reading your account of these events, I am going to have to plant my flag in the anti-OC camp. I've been leaning that way for a long time.

When dealing with anti-gunners and fence-sitters, you do not want to fuel their fire. OC only serves to do just that, just as me walking down O street with my AR-15 would be a terrible move right now, or any time really. They will not listen, they will not learn, they refuse to, and instead will use your demonstration of your right to bear arms as ammo for their argument. It does not make sense, and it does not need to for them. Their minds are made up and they will feed on fear and ignorance to pursue their issues.

It is similar in almost every way to the anti-tobacco campaigns. How many people believe that there is any real evidence that secondhand smoke is harmful? What if I told you that there exists no such evidence? The ONLY  report was completed by the CDC in the late 1980s that attempted to show causation between secondhand smoke and smoking related illness was thrown out by a federal judge only a few years later for ignoring it's own data (confirming a false hypothesis) In the study of 100,000 participants, the chances for increased risk of smoking related illnesses between those exposed to secondhand smoke and those who were not exposed where "statistically irrelevant" IOW a number not worthy of measuring, and not valid for confirming a hypothesis.

Yet there exists today public smoking bans, in fact, I cant remember the last time I saw someone smoking indoors in this country. Why? because the masses are ignorant, and will support whatever feels and sounds right.

[Gunscribe]

"Open carrying in public is one heck of a way to NOT gain any support for gun rights, all it does is hurt our cause through creating additional fear.  In our anti-gun society, it is not a good idea to be showing off our rights in the faces of gun-hating voters (especially when you have a CHP already)."

Anti-gun people want guns gone ... period. Open or concealed it doesn't matter. If you think keeping your guns covered or locked up in a safe is going to change any minds your deluded. If you don't like open carry don't do it.

When a large number of pro-gun people publically slam another large number of pro-gun people for their LEGAL method of carry it creates a divide that the anti-gun folks drive a wedge into. It is the reason we have all of those "sensible gun laws". Too many supposed pro-gun people siding with the anti's. We need this (fill in the blank law), see even pro-gun people are in favor of it.

It does not matter one wit whether you carry openly or only fondle your gun under your bed after midnight in a dark room the anti-gun people want you dissarmed. The sooner some of you get that and quit trying to placate the anti's the more that can be accomplished. 

[lneuke]

"Open carrying in public is one heck of a way to NOT gain any support for gun rights, all it does is hurt our cause through creating additional fear.  In our anti-gun society, it is not a good idea to be showing off our rights in the faces of gun-hating voters (especially when you have a CHP already)."

Anti-gun people want guns gone ... period. Open or concealed it doesn't matter. If you think keeping your guns covered or locked up in a safe is going to change any minds your deluded. If you don't like open carry don't do it.

When a large number of pro-gun people publically slam another large number of pro-gun people for their LEGAL method of carry it creates a divide that the anti-gun folks drive a wedge into. It is the reason we have all of those "sensible gun laws". Too many supposed pro-gun people siding with the anti's. We need this (fill in the blank law), see even pro-gun people are in favor of it.

It does not matter one wit whether you carry openly or only fondle your gun under your bed after midnight in a dark room the anti-gun people want you dissarmed. The sooner some of you get that and quit trying to placate the anti's the more that can be accomplished.

If you're insinuating that I would be on the side of any "sensible gun law" then you are definitely mistaken.  I agree that the issue of open vs concealed divides people to some extent, but I don't think that a healthy discussion such as this is hurting our cause and not allowing us to accomplish anything.  I also agree with you that keeping our guns covered/in our safes is not going to change any minds, however, what it does do is keep people from panicking over a gun wielding citizen.  You can't argue with that.

However, I want to ask, how is open carrying in a gun fearing community going to help our cause?  What about the voters that are on the fence on this issue?  I agree that there is probably no way to sway the majority of the anti-gun people, but why give them anything more that they could use against us to gain support for their side?  The way they'll swing it is that we're a boastful bunch of 2nd Amendment supporters that live to tout our gun rights in the faces of those that are fearful of us.

[bk09]

All I can say is your timing is very poor considering recent events

+1

Western part of the state people probably won't say a thing about open carry. In the liberal east part this is probably another story. I only open carry if I am out at a WMA or on my way to a WMA to hunt or fish. I would carry concealed but I'm still waiting for that dang permit...

[cckyle]

First off, I realize the negative attention that OCing can bring, especially in certain places.  I have OCed in the past, but since acquiring my CCW have only CCed daily for fear of others knowing I am actively practicing my right to keep and bear arms.  Isn't that ironic, that we are scared of people knowing we are legally practicing a right because of what their reaction might be. (I know that's not the only reason)  I realize the pros and cons.  And I think that after that encounter and the replies to this post you likely will think twice about OCing again, at least in Lincoln. However seeing all the previous posts I'm going to bring a different perspective to this post, just because.

"Tackled you on the way in?" Wow, I don't even know what to say about that, other than that was uncalled for and idiotic. The ironic thing is that these same customers who were disgruntled with you would likely be the ones you would be defending should something bad happen.  Not that guy who felt so big by stating he almost tackled you and certainly not the police who would arrive 20 min. after an occurrence.  I'm not going to rag on you OCing, something that is legal and perfectly within your rights.  I understand that it can draw bad attention, but I highly doubt any of these people in the grocery store will go to the polls bent solely on voting for whomever will abolish guns.  Should they, they will be sad to find that candidate not on the ballot.  I'm sure many didn't even notice your firearm, while some saw it but didn't think anything of it because they know our rights, others thought "what is that guy doing carrying a gun around" but didn't say anything, and the few you encountered decided to open their mouth about it.  The last two obviously are uneducated and misinformed on something as simple as our 2A. 

I know there are negative aspects but, a positive aspect of your encounter you did inform a few about our rights, and that what you were doing is perfectly legal.  They may not have liked that but maybe next time they see someone OCing, they won't feel the need to open their mouth about it because you informed them that it is perfectly legal. 

We have all seen the videos on youtube of those OCing and video taping their negative encounters with the public and/or police.  I have seen some videos of a guy OCing and people actually asking him questions and him handing out pamplets and he seemed to be truly educating the public.  He also after having some negative encounters with police, had videos of positive interaction where they would just stop see that it was him, have a casual conversation with him, and both go on their ways.  I always wondered why the dispatcher doesn't simply say, "guy has a gun, that's legal." Or simply drive by say hi, see whomever isn't a danger and go on there way.

I have an acquaintance who frequently OC's everywhere around my town (a town of around 25k ppl 20 min from Omaha).  One time I saw him at walmart, he was OCing and I stopped to talk to him.  While talking to him I overheard a man and his daughter talking at the checkout behind us.  The daughter said to her dad, "that guy has a gun." I then heard the dad say, "yes, he could be a cop, or a security guard, or anyone. It's ok for someone to have a gun as long as you aren't a bad guy".  What a great example of how the media has slandered and biased ppl (the girls reaction), but yet the dad was obviously educated on our rights and able to inform her.  I don't know whether he supported it or not, but at least he seemed to be knowledgable of our rights and respectful of them.  I wish every OC encounter could be like this one.

From your post you don't seem like the kind of person OCing to prove how cool you are or that you a real man because you have a gun, or the kind that was purposely trying to draw attention to yourself.  And when someone did say something to you you didn't freak out on them, and stated that you weren't rude to them.  So I don't feel I can be judgmental of you.   

Bottom line they want guns gone whether their on your hip or under your shirt.  The mind set of, "a real man carries his gun on his hip, a criminal tries to conceal it," has gone.  Originally we couldn't conceal it, but we could carry it openly.  Then because less and less OCed, when someone did want to carry people weren't "comfortable" with it.  So now we have to hide it and CC so no one knows it's there.  We can't let anyone realize that we are practicing a right.  If they knew we were practicing a right legally, they would wish to take it away.  Kind of crazy to me when you think about it, but I guess that's the way it is.  Sad though that we have to tip toe around our rights like we do. 

[wallace11bravo]

  Isn't that ironic, that we are scared of people knowing we are legally practicing a right because of what their reaction might be.

Sad is what it is. A shame.

Anti-gun people want guns gone ... period. Open or concealed it doesn't matter. If you think keeping your guns covered or locked up in a safe is going to change any minds your deluded.

I do realize that they want guns gone no matter where they are. It is a matter of out-of-sight=out-of-mind. Once you start shoving it in their face, they become more adamant and active... you have "poked the bear" in a matter of speaking.

For reference on this: the AWB expired in 2004, I have not heard ANY real public outcry to reinstate it until this past week. Nothing changed except the fact that it is now public attention. Now I doubt someone OCing is going to make the news, but it still has an impression on those you encounter. I will say that given the scenario handed too him by "Mr. Ihaveanenourmouspenis" who stated that he almost tackled him, and others, that 'o' handled this encounter very well, and I would doubt there was any real negative consequences.

[HuskerXDM]

I will say that given the scenario handed too him by "Mr. Ihaveanenourmouspenis" who stated that he almost tackled him,

Most of the time when I say LOL, I didn't actually... this one I really did LOL

[just_me_mongo]

To quote Gunscribe:

"When a large number of pro-gun people publically slam another large number of pro-gun people for their LEGAL method of carry it creates a divide that the anti-gun folks drive a wedge into. It is the reason we have all of those "sensible gun laws". Too many supposed pro-gun people siding with the anti's. We need this (fill in the blank law), see even pro-gun people are in favor of it."

I completely agree!!  Very well stated.

[00BUCK]

The two guys in the video are total douchebags. The "I'm too cool sunglasses" made that evident before I even hit play. Thirty two seconds into it I had to stop. I'd had all the douchebaggery I could stand for one evening.

[lneuke]

The two guys in the video are total douchebags. The "I'm too cool sunglasses" made that evident before I even hit play. Thirty two seconds into it I had to stop. I'd had all the douchebaggery I could stand for one evening.

Perhaps, but feel free to check their credentials

[wizard]

The two guys in the video are total douchebags. The "I'm too cool sunglasses" made that evident before I even hit play. Thirty two seconds into it I had to stop. I'd had all the douchebaggery I could stand for one evening.

I have to agree with you. I think I made it a little farther than 32 seconds but not to much more. As "normal" sized guys, I don't see how they can say I should have no problem carrying concealed if it's a IWB holster. I have a much smaller waist than a lot of men (and some chunky women) which makes carrying concealed a little difficult depending on what I'm carrying or what kind of shirt I'm wearing. Of course a different holster can make a world of difference. Don't get me wrong though I like carrying concealed especially when it's some place I don't know the police very well, but around here I have no problems OCing.

[lneuke]

I have to agree with you. I think I made it a little farther than 32 seconds but not to much more. As "normal" sized guys, I don't see how they can say I should have no problem carrying concealed if it's a IWB holster. I have a much smaller waist than a lot of men (and some chunky women) which makes carrying concealed a little difficult depending on what I'm carrying or what kind of shirt I'm wearing. Of course a different holster can make a world of difference. Don't get me wrong though I like carrying concealed especially when it's some place I don't know the police very well, but around here I have no problems OCing.

I don't understand that if someone appears to be a douchebag, that their talking points are rendered invalid.  Close-mindedness is something we expect anti-gun people to overcome, yet some of us are equally guilty of...

I'm a fairly skinny gun, and I have a friend that is very skinny.  We both are able to easily conceal our carry guns on a daily basis using different carry methods (appendix vs. small of the back).  All I have is a cheap Galco leather IWB holster that I bought at Scheels while I wait on my Alabama holster to arrive. 





...and just for the record, i do agree that they are a bit douchebaggy