Author Topic: Interesting situation with ccw and alcohol sales. Need help (Read 5111 times)

lunchbox · « **on:** October 29, 2012, 02:55:27 AM »

Here is my situation guys. I am a brewer for a local brewery in Omaha. Since 100% of our sales are derived from alcohol. Am I allowed to carry while I work? I'm usually working nights by myself and I feel this is an easy target to get robbed. Roughly 98% of our sales are to a distributor and not the public. We do have a tasting room open to the public part time during the week. There is also a fence that divides the tasting room And the brewhouse. I do occasionally have to enter the tasting room during business hours but the majority of my work is done in the production area. I also have permission from the owner to carry my weapon. I'm just curious on your thoughts about this.

gsd · « **Reply #1 on:** October 29, 2012, 07:03:06 AM »

I would think by the letter of the law no, but permission from the owner could theoretically invest you with some sort of armed security powers.

I am not a lawyer, this is just my interpretation.

bullit · « **Reply #2 on:** October 29, 2012, 07:16:41 AM »

As it is private property and you are an employee at work (or owner for that matter), CHP would not apply. Now imbiding in the fruits of your labor may get in a pickle after leaving work.

lunchbox · « **Reply #3 on:** October 29, 2012, 08:40:08 AM »

Ironically I don't drink much. But definitely not while I'm armed.

00BUCK · « **Reply #4 on:** October 29, 2012, 03:12:36 PM »

Is the booze sold for on-site consumption? If not, then you can legally carry there - just as you can in a liquor store.

lunchbox · « **Reply #5 on:** October 29, 2012, 04:29:33 PM »

Quote from: 00BUCK on October 29, 2012, 03:12:36 PM

Is the booze sold for on-site consumption? If not, then you can legally carry there - just as you can in a liquor store.

Thats my dilemma. I work in the production area behind the fence divide. On the other side of the fence we have a tasting room that does serve to the public part time. The only day the tasting room is open and I'm at work is Wednesday from 6pm-8pm. Other than that, the brewery is closed to the public. The fence is(by Nebraska definition) A business divide. The tasting room is in the distillery and technically a different company. All owned by the same LLC.

smitty81 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 29, 2012, 04:32:37 PM »

Quote from: 00BUCK on October 29, 2012, 03:12:36 PM

Is the booze sold for on-site consumption? If not, then you can legally carry there - just as you can in a liquor store.

Hmm............I could be wrong here but I think your info is incorrect. This is word for word the state law.

"Establishment having a liquor license which derives over onehalf of its income from the sale of alcoholic liquor"

It does not say anything about on-site consumption....................you have to abide by the way the laws are written until fruther changes in the written law state otherwise.

Other states have it written out even fruther that you may carry in places where there is no on-site consumption but Nebraska's law isn't written like that.

Can anyone confirm one way or the other?

smitty81 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 29, 2012, 04:33:43 PM »

Quote from: lunchbox on October 29, 2012, 04:29:33 PM

Thats my dilemma. I work in the production area behind the fence divide. On the other side of the fence we have a tasting room that does serve to the public part time. The only day the tasting room is open and I'm at work is Wednesday from 6pm-8pm. Other than that, the brewery is closed to the public. The fence is(by Nebraska definition) A business divide. The tasting room is in the distillery and technically a different company. All owned by the same LLC.

I would say that according to state law, your SOL. You can however keep it in your vehicle.

bullit · « **Reply #8 on:** October 29, 2012, 08:16:43 PM »

PRIVATE PROPERTY..PRIVATE PROPERTY...He is an employee on his companies private property. No different from you pr I chugging down the suds on our couch at home with our gun stuffed in our pocket. By the way I don't do this personally. Open carry if it makes youto feel better and your owner is cool with it.

smitty81 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 29, 2012, 08:30:06 PM »

Quote from: bullit on October 29, 2012, 08:16:43 PM

PRIVATE PROPERTY..PRIVATE PROPERTY...He is an employee on his companies private property. No different from you pr I chugging down the suds on our couch at home with our gun stuffed in our pocket. By the way I don't do this personally. Open carry if it makes youto feel better and your owner is cool with it.

I guess you can do what you want. If you owned a bar and you were working while you were carrying, its still breaking the law private property or not. Just because you own the business or work there doesn't exempt you from the law. An example would be doctors, just because they work at the hospital doesn't make them exempt from the law.

Law states "Establishment having a liquor license which derives over one half of its income from the sale of alcoholic liquor"

Does not state any stipulations about private property or consumption at said business. Your adding your own stipulations and reading to far into the written law.

It's one thing for an applebees to post no weapons but Nebraska state law takes a step further and basically says no concealed carry at an establishment having a liquor license which derives over one half of its income from the sale of alcoholic liquor. Dosen't matter if the owner says it's ok because the state already said it's against the law.

Your home is quite different then out in the public rather you own the business or not.

bk09 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 30, 2012, 12:38:42 AM »

Quote from: 00BUCK on October 29, 2012, 03:12:36 PM

Is the booze sold for on-site consumption? If not, then you can legally carry there - just as you can in a liquor store.

Just like smitty81 said. I have always been under the assumption that you can't carry in a liquor store. That's why I buy my alcohol at grocery stores. Maybe Chris Z will chime in on this one, he always has good input.

lunchbox · « **Reply #11 on:** October 30, 2012, 03:20:26 AM »

It's looking like oc may be my only option. Which shouldn't pose a problem. I work nights and we are closed. If I understand correctly, oc is not subject to the same conditions regarding alcohol sales? I would love to hear Chris's take on this.

bullit · « **Reply #12 on:** October 30, 2012, 06:52:55 AM »

"Your home is quite different then out in the public rather you own the business or not."
Smitty81 with all due respect from a business owner (me) and the desire to become a little more educated, please define the difference in my rights at MY home and my rights at MY business?
Lunchbox, there are NO laws forbidding the OC of a firearm (Omaha included as you have a CHP) in the State of Nebraska with regards to your situation.

smitty81 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 30, 2012, 08:22:53 AM »

Quote from: bullit on October 30, 2012, 06:52:55 AM

"Your home is quite different then out in the public rather you own the business or not."
Smitty81 with all due respect from a business owner (me) and the desire to become a little more educated, please define the difference in my rights at MY home and my rights at MY business?
Lunchbox, there are NO laws forbidding the OC of a firearm (Omaha included as you have a CHP) in the State of Nebraska with regards to your situation.

yes, you have rights but you are still subject to the law.

If you own a bar and lets say your drinking at this bar you own. For some reason or another, the cops pay you a vist while your in the process of consuming. Now you are telling me that just because you own the bar you can do what you want and you do not have to abide by the laws?

I think your CCW permit would probably be revoked if they wanted to push it.

The key here is public and private.

cracked junior · « **Reply #14 on:** October 30, 2012, 09:35:45 AM »

My chp instructor said that going into a liquor store and purchasing would be ok since you are not consuming at the time.

I think the 50% law is for bars.

bullit · « **Reply #15 on:** October 30, 2012, 09:53:06 AM »

Cracked Junior.....Sec. 018.01M under Prohibited places....."Establishment HAVING A LIQUOR LICENSE which derives over one-half of its income from the sale of alcoholic liquor".

Being a CHP instructor myself, I make the following comment understanding (and assuming) that there is only one form of "LIQUOR LICENSE" in Nebraska...., your instructor would be incorrect. There is NOTHING in the above section or elsewhere in CHP law specifying consuming versus not consuming in said licensed establishment. (Emphasis in caps all mine).

SemperFiGuy · « **Reply #16 on:** October 30, 2012, 10:00:43 AM »

lunchbox

Does your company have a legal department (probably not) or have a law firm on retainer that you can go to for legal advice??

In this case, your best bet is to go to an attorney who knows the NE handgun laws and lay this question before him.

What you are getting here on the forum is best guesses, conjecture, personal interpretation, and a whole lot of uninformed opinion and sea-lawyering that you definitely cannot take to court and present to the judge. It's great to have the discussion, but push comes to shove, saying "Your honor, I read it on the NFOA Forum..." may not work out all that well.

This legal question should go to a knowledgable attorney. Actually, even his opinion does not entirely settle the question; it just gets you closer to the safer side of the issue. In a situation such as this one, you never know clearly where you actually stand until that day when you are leaving the courtroom.

It's your own personal rear end that's hanging out in the open if you carry as discussed above; best to keep it out of the grinder.

sfg

SemperFiGuy · « **Reply #17 on:** October 30, 2012, 10:03:41 AM »

cracked junior

As a mild suggestion, it's a good idea to assimilate cautiously whatever truth is heard from CHP instructors.

As a lot, they are a generally uninformed bunch. [Bullit.....definitely ain't talkin' about you in this present instance. But I'll bet you've met enough other instructors goin' around to appreciate this particular point.]

sfg

bullit · « **Reply #18 on:** October 30, 2012, 10:19:54 AM »

Yes as SFG alludes to... my opinions are mine and mine alone and I, Bullit, sponsored this advertisement.

With regards to SFGs advice "In this case, your best bet is to go to an attorney who knows the NE handgun laws and lay this question before him"

SFG... you will likely agree with me seeking and getting this advice alone is a HUGE problem in our state.....i.e. "an attorney who knows the NE hangun laws", However, it will indeed put you on the safer side of the street.

I'm out.....

SemperFiGuy · « **Reply #19 on:** October 30, 2012, 10:29:24 AM »

Playing Hooky from School for a Coupla Hours, Contractors are All Gone from the House, Obviously I've Got Way Too Much Excess Time on My Hands This Morning to Spend on the Forum, So...........

As is happens, Nebraska has about a zillion different kinds of liquor licenses.

Looky Here: http://www.lcc.ne.gov/formsdiv.html

Title 272, NAC 21, Section 018.01M reads as follows:

018 PROHIBITED PLACES AND PREMISES
Establishment having a liquor license which derives over one-half of its income from the sale of alcoholic liquor;

Doesn't say exactly, specifically, precisely, and very clearly just which of the many kinds of liquor licenses are being addressed here and whether the income is wholesale, retail, or whatever. Trial case has to go before a judge, get adjudicated, make new case law to cover this particular situation.

You don't want it to be your case.

sfg