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Author Topic: SCHOOL SHOOTING IN CONNECTICUT  (Read 9705 times)

Offline bkoenig

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Re: SCHOOL SHOOTING IN CONNECTICUT
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2012, 08:12:12 AM »
Interesting side note - the shooting a few days ago in Oregon was quite possibly stopped by a CCW holder:

http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html

Of course, this will be ignored by the national media.

Offline RLMoeller

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Re: SCHOOL SHOOTING IN CONNECTICUT
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2012, 09:12:19 AM »
So much information out there and who knows what is accurate, knowing I can't trust the media to verify much if anything.  But I saw on ABC last night something that sounded conflicted and I don't know how many viewers would have caught this.  They kept saying these guns were legally purchased.  I also head that he "borrowed" a family members purchase card to buy the guns.  How is that legal?  We all know the answer.  I don't know if what was stated by ABC was accurate.  God knows I despise ABC news and don't trust them, but that seemed like an odd little tidbit of information.

I believe the reason the mall shooting in Oregon didn't get used more by the anti's is because the gun was stolen.

Offline abbafandr

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Re: SCHOOL SHOOTING IN CONNECTICUT
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2012, 09:20:13 AM »
I believe the guns were owned and registered to his mother.  Technically, they were legal, just not for him.

Offline JTH

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Re: SCHOOL SHOOTING IN CONNECTICUT
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2012, 09:29:06 AM »
Just thought I'd point out---that the number of mass shootings actually hasn't changed over time----merely the amount of coverage of such things.

http://boston.com/community/blogs/crime_punishment/2012/08/no_increase_in_mass_shootings.html

I don't necessarily agree with the author's conclusions regarding what needs to be "fixed" --- but his statistics regarding mass shootings over time is interesting.

This isn't in any attempt to say that "this was just another one of those things"----but it is to note that yes, kids play lots of video games, watch violent movies, and are indeed obviously reared in a "self-esteem" mode versus a "self-respect" mode AND YET those really don't seem to be causing much in the way of changes.

Matter of fact, if you think about it, given those statistics, the RATE at which mass shootings are occurring is actually getting lower each year, due to how the population is growing.

We just hear about it much, much more.

That should tell people something.  (It won't, of course---as has been pointed out, we want a "fix" for everything horrible that happens, even if there cannot be a "fix" for it.)

Guns aren't the problem.  If they were, the massive increase in the number of guns in the US would have driven a corresponding increase in mass shootings (and deaths).

Mental health issues and meds aren't the problem.  If they were, the massive increase in population plus the massive increase in the amount of meds that are given each year to people would have driven a corresponding increase in mass shooting (and deaths).

Violence on TV, in movies, and in video games isn't the problem.  If any of those (or combinations of those) were, we'd see a HUGE increase in mass shootings because the number of video games with direct, shoot-em-up violence, the number of movies directly about violence, and the amount and types of violence now allowed on TV has gone up in amounts that would be unbelievable to someone living in 1980.

People are the problem.  And you can't fix people BEFORE they do something.  You can deal with them during, and you can deal with them after.  But you can't actually "fix" people when they haven't done anything yet.

 "If they don't have weapons, they can't shoot people."  "If we decide they are a danger, we can force them to be on meds."  "If we make laws to restrict everyone from anything, the world will be all fine."

Every parent eventually figures out that they can't coat the world in cotton batting to protect their children.   (Well, I suppose some don't.)  When something horrible like this happens, people revert back, and many reactions are all emotional.  (Unsurprisingly.)
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Offline Lorimor

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"It is better to avoid than to run; better to run than to de-escalate; better to de-escalate than to fight; better to fight than to die. The very essence of self-defense is a thin list of things that might get you out alive when you are already screwed." – Rory Miller

Offline Lorimor

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Re: SCHOOL SHOOTING IN CONNECTICUT
« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2012, 09:56:53 AM »
Does Michigan get it?

The deadly school shooting in Connecticut came less than 24 hours after Michigan lawmakers passed legislation that allows those with concealed pistol licenses to carry guns into schools and other once forbidden places.

Proponents of the legislation said if the bill is signed into law, it will give people the opportunity to respond to crimes and possibly stop a similar situation.

“This kind of tragedy is hard to process, but if one person – a faculty member or a parent – could legally carry, at least it could have limited some of the mayhem,” said Rob Harris, media director for Michigan Open Carry Inc., on Friday. “This legislation has to be passed to at least have a fighting chance against the evil in this world.”

http://www.freep.com/article/20121214/NEWS06/121214074/In-Michigan-supporters-say-new-gun-law-could-help-stop-tragedies-like-Conn-massacre
"It is better to avoid than to run; better to run than to de-escalate; better to de-escalate than to fight; better to fight than to die. The very essence of self-defense is a thin list of things that might get you out alive when you are already screwed." – Rory Miller

Offline Sincendiary

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Re: SCHOOL SHOOTING IN CONNECTICUT
« Reply #46 on: December 15, 2012, 10:18:14 AM »
Interesting link jth.  I always appreciate stats.  I like things I can measure.

Mental health issues and meds aren't the problem.  If they were, the massive increase in population plus the massive increase in the amount of meds that are given each year to people would have driven a corresponding increase in mass shooting (and deaths).

There's also been huge advances in mental health treatment and availability of care.  Without any actual formal science or number crunching to back it up this looks like it might be *gasp* actually working.  However, since I work in the field I know I am trying to justify my own existence on some level.

People are the problem.  And you can't fix people BEFORE they do something.  You can deal with them during, and you can deal with them after.  But you can't actually "fix" people when they haven't done anything yet.

It's really hard to measure prevention unfortunately.  Education on mental health issues and how to get help seems to be like a better solution than most, I spend most of my time doing this so again I am biased as all hell.   I don't know for sure that people I've helped would have gotten to the point where they'd be so broken that they'd take others or their own life but I know I've helped people.  I don't want to force anyone to get care.  I don't want to mandate mental evals for anyone.  I just want people to know that it's there and there's choices.

Of course making schools and gun free zones harder targets is also a form of prevention, which is again really hard to measure.

Interesting side note - the shooting a few days ago in Oregon was quite possibly stopped by a CCW holder:

http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html

Of course, this will be ignored by the national media.

Additionally, thanks for pointing that out bkoeing.

Offline Roper

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Re: SCHOOL SHOOTING IN CONNECTICUT
« Reply #47 on: December 15, 2012, 10:29:05 AM »
This tragedy could be a tipping point for additional gun control.  The loss of children like this is so difficult and emotional for everyone.  God bless the families.
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Offline Ronvandyn

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Re: SCHOOL SHOOTING IN CONNECTICUT
« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2012, 11:22:21 AM »
A very interesting article from the Canada Free Press…

“Gun control isn’t about putting an end to horrors, it’s about controlling people. And people who are used to being controlled have even less ability to cope with the uncontrolled and the uncontrollable.”

More at the link…http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/51786
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Offline RLMoeller

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Re: SCHOOL SHOOTING IN CONNECTICUT
« Reply #49 on: December 15, 2012, 11:25:57 AM »
“Gun control isn’t about putting an end to horrors, it’s about controlling people. And people who are used to being controlled have even less ability to cope with the uncontrolled and the uncontrollable.”
Excellent quote.

Offline David Hineline

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Re: SCHOOL SHOOTING IN CONNECTICUT
« Reply #50 on: December 16, 2012, 11:39:05 PM »
We had hard times in the Depression too.  I don't recall stories of mass murder in our schools though.  We're reaping the harvest of those who think we can lead a pain free/consequence free life. 


Mass Murder has been around along time. Durring the Depression.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
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Offline D1sclaimer

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Re: SCHOOL SHOOTING IN CONNECTICUT
« Reply #51 on: December 17, 2012, 01:42:33 PM »
I wonder if people realize that Connecticut has an "Assault Weapons Ban?"  If it didn't work there to prevent the shooting, how would it work nationwide?

http://www.cga.ct.gov/current/pub/Chap943.htm#Sec53-202c.htm

Offline kozball

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Re: SCHOOL SHOOTING IN CONNECTICUT
« Reply #52 on: December 20, 2012, 07:40:23 PM »
\"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn\'t pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.\"

Ronald Reagan

Offline sjwsti

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Re: SCHOOL SHOOTING IN CONNECTICUT
« Reply #53 on: December 21, 2012, 11:47:16 AM »
At its press conference today the NRA calls for a nationwide effort to put professional armed security in every school......thats just crazy  ::)

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Offline AAllen

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Re: SCHOOL SHOOTING IN CONNECTICUT
« Reply #54 on: December 21, 2012, 11:59:33 AM »
Here is the transcript of the press confrence: http://home.nra.org/pdf/Transcript_PDF.pdf

Offline bullit

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Re: SCHOOL SHOOTING IN CONNECTICUT
« Reply #55 on: December 21, 2012, 12:01:00 PM »
At its press conference today the NRA calls for a nationwide effort to put professional armed security in every school......thats just crazy 

- Shawn

+++++1  ...bad idea......better solution, if a teacher has a CHP let'em legally carry and go about their vigilance as if out and about anywhere else.....

Offline JTH

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Re: SCHOOL SHOOTING IN CONNECTICUT
« Reply #56 on: December 21, 2012, 01:37:42 PM »
At its press conference today the NRA calls for a nationwide effort to put professional armed security in every school......thats just crazy  ::)

- Shawn

Yep, that's so much like having a full-time security team in each building, which you called for.



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Offline AAllen

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Re: SCHOOL SHOOTING IN CONNECTICUT
« Reply #57 on: December 21, 2012, 01:43:39 PM »
I have an issue with one item that Wayne said; making a database of everyone with any mental issues is a bad idea.  I don't believe in putting people on lists, just to be rounded up the next time something goes haywire (see gun registration).  We do need to improve our mental health system but making it less likely that someone would seek help does nothing to fix the bigger problem.

Offline FarmerRick

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Re: SCHOOL SHOOTING IN CONNECTICUT
« Reply #58 on: December 21, 2012, 03:17:54 PM »
I have an issue with one item that Wayne said; making a database of everyone with any mental issues is a bad idea.  I don't believe in putting people on lists, just to be rounded up the next time something goes haywire (see gun registration).  We do need to improve our mental health system but making it less likely that someone would seek help does nothing to fix the bigger problem.

It's my opinion that there'd be a whole lot of politicians on that list...
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Offline wallace11bravo

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Re: SCHOOL SHOOTING IN CONNECTICUT
« Reply #59 on: December 21, 2012, 03:34:30 PM »

Gun registration = mental illness database

Bans (limiting 2A) = censoring (limiting 1A)

Its satire, though it could have been delivered better.