< Back to the Main Site

Author Topic: NFOA Raffle is on!  (Read 6364 times)

Offline JTH

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 2300
  • Shooter
    • Precision Response Training
Re: NFOA Raffle is on!
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2013, 08:44:21 AM »
I'm glad you're not teaching math to my kids. 

There will be a maximum of 1000 tickets sold. Each ticket has a 1 in 1000 chance of winning.
Buying 4 tickets gives you a 4 in 1000 chance of winning.  Buying 4 tickets does not magically reduce the number of tickets sold to 250. 

Sheesh.   ::)

[sigh]  Folks, I never said that the number of tickets gets reduced to 250.  I said the ODDS are 1 in 250.

And folks---that number is correct.  I'm sorry you are having trouble with math, I'm sorry your teachers in high school didn't do a better job---and I'm sorry you want people who don't know math to teach it instead.

I'm going to let this go after this post, because apparently some people just want to have their opinion---but seriously, folks:  4/1000 = 1/250.  As such, if you have 4 tickets out of 1000, and each ticket has an equal chance of being chosen, and only one ticket will be chosen (all of which has been assumed thus far by everyone) --- then your odds of winning are 1 in 250.  They are ALSO 4 in 1000 -- but standard form means reducing them. 

And those two sets of odds (4 in 1000 and 1 in 250) are the same.

If you don't want to believe that, that's certainly up to you.  However, unfortunately for you, math doesn't really care about your opinion---it is either right or wrong.

If you buy one ticket, your odds:  1 in 1000
If you buy two tickets, your odds:  1 in 500
If you buy four tickets, your odds:  1 in 250
If you buy eight tickets, your odds:  1 in 125.

I'm sorry to hear that this doesn't make sense to you---however, please don't harm your kids by insisting that your opinion is more important than actually being correct.

Feel free to check with any probability/statistics book, or better yet, with any high school student who can do math.

(We all do know that 4/8 = 2/4 = 1/2, right?  This is no different.)
Precision Response Training
http://precisionresponsetraining.com

Offline OnTheFly

  • Steel Benefactor
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2009
  • Location: Lincoln, NE
  • Posts: 2617
  • NFOA member #364
Re: NFOA Raffle is on!
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2013, 04:43:51 PM »
I was a math major in college and I endorse jthhapkido's calculations.  What he is stating is VERY simple...to math geeks at least.  Statistics were not my strong point, but what he is presenting is a fundamental principle.

Think of it this way...

jthhapkido's examples of buying one, two, four or eight tickets is spot on, but what if you bought ALL of the tickets sold?  What would your odds be of winning?  They would be 1,000 in 1,000, or when reduced they would be 1 in 1.  That is to say, they are going to draw one ticket, and since you own ALL of them, you will hold the winning ticket.  Or you are 100% guaranteed to be holder of the winning ticket.

Assuming all 1,000 tickets were sold, if you bought 500 tickets, your odds of winning will be 500 in 1,000, or simplified they would be 1 in 2.  That is to say, you will have a 50% chance of winning and a 50% chance of losing.

Fly
« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 05:20:28 PM by OnTheFly »
Si vis pacem, para bellum

Offline lneuke

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Mar 2012
  • Location: Waverly
  • Posts: 124
Re: NFOA Raffle is on!
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2013, 05:14:46 PM »
All I know is that I bought a few tickets, and if I don't get that receiver I am going to be PISSED THAT YOU GUYS DIDN'T BETTER EXPLAIN THE PROBABILITY OF ME WINNING

Offline JTH

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 2300
  • Shooter
    • Precision Response Training
Re: NFOA Raffle is on!
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2013, 08:46:54 PM »
All I know is that I bought a few tickets, and if I don't get that receiver I am going to be PISSED THAT YOU GUYS DIDN'T BETTER EXPLAIN THE PROBABILITY OF ME WINNING

Well, crap.






:)
Precision Response Training
http://precisionresponsetraining.com

Offline gsd

  • 2013 NFOA Firearm Rights Champion award winner
  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Oct 2010
  • Location: Lincoln, NE
  • Posts: 1831
Re: NFOA Raffle is on!
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2013, 08:57:01 PM »
All I know is that I bought a few tickets, and if I don't get that receiver I am going to be PISSED THAT YOU GUYS DIDN'T BETTER EXPLAIN THE PROBABILITY OF ME WINNING

This guy.  He gets it. :)
It is highly likely the above post may offend you. I'm fine with that.

Offline JTH

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 2300
  • Shooter
    • Precision Response Training
Re: NFOA Raffle is on!
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2013, 10:13:28 PM »
This guy.  He gets it. :)


Hey, GI Joe always told me that KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE!


Schoolhouse Rock said that KNOWLEDGE WAS POWER!


Fine, be that way.    :-[







 ;D
Precision Response Training
http://precisionresponsetraining.com

Offline Neeco

  • It is what it isn't...
  • Steel Benefactor
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Location: Waverly
  • Posts: 237
Re: NFOA Raffle is on!
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2013, 09:03:56 AM »
Just a bit of clarity. 

From here: http://www.problemgambling.ca/en/resourcesforprofessionals/pages/probabilityoddsandrandomchance.aspx


Probability: A Definition

Probability is the likelihood or chance that something will happen. Probability is an estimate of the relative average frequency with which an event occurs in repeated independent trials. The relative frequency is always between 0% (the event never occurs) and 100% (the event always occurs). Probability gives us a tool to predict how often an event will occur, but does not allow us to predict when exactly an event will occur. Probability can also be used to determine the conditions for obtaining certain results or the long-term financial prospects of a particular game; it may also help determine if a particular game is worth playing. It is often expressed as odds, a fraction or a decimal fraction (also known as a proportion). Probability and odds are slightly different ways of describing a player’s chances of winning a bet.

Probability

Probability is an estimate of the chance of winning divided by the total number of chances available. Probability is an ordinary fraction (e.g., 1/4) that can also be expressed as a percentage (e.g., 25%) or as a proportion between 0 and 1 (e.g., p = 0.25). If there are four tickets in a draw and a player owns one of them, his or her probability of winning is 1 in 4 or 1/4 or 25% or p = 0.25.

Odds

Odds are ratios of a player’s chances of losing to his or her chances of winning, or the average frequency of a loss to the average frequency of a win. If a player owns 1 of 4 tickets, his/her probability is 1 in 4 but his/her odds are 3 to 1. That means that there are 3 chances of losing and only 1 chance of winning. To convert odds to probability, take the player’s chance of winning, use it as the numerator and divide by the total number of chances, both winning and losing. For example, if the odds are 4 to 1, the probability equals 1 / (1 + 4) = 1/5 or 20%. Odds of 1 to 1 (50%) are called “evens,” and a payout of 1 to 1 is called “even money.” Epidemiologists use odds ratios to describe the risk for contracting a disease (e.g., a particular group of people might be 2.5 times more likely to have cancer than the rest of the population).

In gambling, “odds” rarely mean the actual chance of a win. Most of the time, when the word “odds” is used, it refers to a subjective estimate of the odds rather than a precise mathematical computation. Furthermore, the odds posted by a racetrack or bookie will not be the “true odds,” but the payout odds. The true odds are the actual chances of winning, whereas the payout odds are the ratio of payout for each unit bet. A favourite horse might be quoted at odds of 2 to 1, which mathematically would represent a probability of 33.3%, but in this case the actual meaning is that the track estimates that it will pay $2 profit for every $1 bet. A long shot (a horse with a low probability of winning) might be quoted at 18 to 1 (a mathematical probability of 5.3%), but these odds do not reflect the probability that the horse will win, they mean only that the payout for a win will be $18 profit for every $1 bet. When a punter says “those are good odds,” he or she is essentially saying that the payout odds compensate for the true odds against a horse winning. The true odds of a horse are actually unknown, but most often the true odds against a horse winning are longer (a lower chance of a win) than the payout odds (e.g., payout odds = 3 to 1; true odds = 5 to 1).  The posted odds of a horse actually overestimate the horse’s chance of winning to ensure that the punter is underpaid for a win.

Equally Likely Outcomes

Central to probability is the idea of equally likely outcomes (Stewart, 1989). Each side of a die or coin is equally likely to come up. Probability, however, does not always seem to be about events that are equally likely. For example, the bar symbol on a slot machine might have a probability of 25%, while a double diamond might have a probability of 2%. This does not actually contradict the idea of equally likely outcomes. Instead, think of the 25% as 25 chances and the 2% as two chances, for a total of 27 chances out of 100. Each of those 27 chances is equally likely. As another example, in rolling two dice there are 36 possible outcomes: (1, 1), (1, 2), (1, 3), (1, 4), (1, 5), (1, 6), (2, 1) . . . (6, 6); and each of these combinations is equally likely to happen. A player rolling 2 dice, however, is most likely to get a total of 7 because there are six ways to make a 7 from the two dice: (1, 6), (2, 5), (3, 4), (4, 3), (5, 2) and (6, 1). A player is least likely to get a total of either 2 or 12 because there is only one way to make a 2 (1, 1) and one way to make a 12 (6, 6).

Offline Phantom

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Location: Omaha/Bellevue
  • Posts: 503
Re: NFOA Raffle is on!
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2013, 12:14:14 PM »
(Shakes Head)

(Walks away Humbling to self ......and I thought my kids were bad!) :o
"If the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the...the gene pool, they'd a stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea.....Hell, I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated.  "-- Sheridan, "Babylon 5"

Offline Neeco

  • It is what it isn't...
  • Steel Benefactor
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Location: Waverly
  • Posts: 237
Re: NFOA Raffle is on!
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2013, 01:47:08 PM »
Oh and I picked myself up a few tickets via the website!  Wish me luck!

I have 5 out of 1000 tickets now! Or half a percent chance to win, or a 1 in 200 shot at it. 

Offline lneuke

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Mar 2012
  • Location: Waverly
  • Posts: 124
Re: NFOA Raffle is on!
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2013, 05:12:21 PM »
From all I've read, I'm pretty sure I have it correct.  I bought 5 tickets out of 1000, so 1000 / 5 = 200, meaning I have a 200% chance of winning.  Sorry to everyone else.

Offline Iguana

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 6
Re: NFOA Raffle is on!
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2013, 07:13:40 PM »
When should I expect the raffle tickets in the mail?  I ordered the first day but havent received anything yet.

Offline Husker_Fan

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Apr 2010
  • Location: Omaha
  • Posts: 717
Re: NFOA Raffle is on!
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2013, 07:35:34 AM »
Hmmm... If I had bought all 1000 tickets for $5,000, I'd have about as much in it as some people are asking for stripped lowers on Armslist. :)

Offline whatsit

  • Powder Benefactor
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2012
  • Location: Lincoln
  • Posts: 387
Re: NFOA Raffle is on!
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2013, 07:39:52 AM »
When should I expect the raffle tickets in the mail?  I ordered the first day but havent received anything yet.
Yeah, I haven't gotten mine either. I'm sure the volunteers are just a little behind/busy. They'll show up before the drawing, I'm sure.

Offline gsd

  • 2013 NFOA Firearm Rights Champion award winner
  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Oct 2010
  • Location: Lincoln, NE
  • Posts: 1831
Re: NFOA Raffle is on!
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2013, 07:42:25 AM »
DanW talked about this at the show. There was a small hiccup in getting the tickets out. Rest assured, it has been addressed and you will be receiving your stubs prior to the drawing.
It is highly likely the above post may offend you. I'm fine with that.

Offline Clint

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 43
Re: NFOA Raffle is on!
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2013, 09:26:50 AM »
When should I expect the raffle tickets in the mail?  I ordered the first day but havent received anything yet.

I imagine we will have to present a little dissertation on statistics and probability before we are eligible to receive our numbers :)

Actually, I found that discussion kind of interesting. Not going to jump into the middle of it, though.....

Offline OnTheFly

  • Steel Benefactor
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2009
  • Location: Lincoln, NE
  • Posts: 2617
  • NFOA member #364
Re: NFOA Raffle is on!
« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2013, 09:32:42 AM »
I imagine we will have to present a little dissertation on statistics and probability before we are eligible to receive our numbers :)

Actually, I found that discussion kind of interesting. Not going to jump into the middle of it, though.....


The facts are in jthhapkido's post(s) if you want the real math, but all you REALLY need to know is that you (and by "you" I mean ALL of you) are going to lose and I am going to win.   ;D

Fly
Si vis pacem, para bellum

Offline lunchbox

  • Steel Benefactor
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2012
  • Posts: 61
Re: NFOA Raffle is on!
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2013, 08:01:59 AM »
I was just wondering if the ticket kink had been worked out. I still haven’t received my stubs.

Offline Neeco

  • It is what it isn't...
  • Steel Benefactor
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Location: Waverly
  • Posts: 237
Re: NFOA Raffle is on!
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2013, 08:22:24 AM »
I haven't received mine either, but I am confident that the guys running the show have it figured out!

Offline RLMoeller

  • Sponsor- NFOA Firearm Raffle at the 2009 Big Buck Classic. 2010 Firearm Rights Champion Award winner
  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: La Vista, NE
  • Posts: 3058
Re: NFOA Raffle is on!
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2013, 08:43:41 AM »
I have the ticket stubs filled out for all online sales.  I have not gotten emails sent back out to everyone to let them know what ticket number was sold to them.  We realized after the initial announcement that we cannot mail raffle tickets through USPS, so it was decided to use email to provide that information back to the customer.   Sorry for the delays in getting that information out.

Offline lunchbox

  • Steel Benefactor
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2012
  • Posts: 61
Re: NFOA Raffle is on!
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2013, 08:44:49 AM »
Thanks for the update.