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Author Topic: When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over  (Read 5007 times)

Offline abbafandr

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When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over
« on: January 09, 2013, 07:17:02 PM »
I read this awhile back on dailyreckoning.com.  What do we think?

“When they come for my gun, they will have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands,” is a common refrain I often hear from the Neo-Cons when there is a threat, credible or otherwise, that the US government is going to take their firearms.

And, when I hear this crazy talk, I agree with them openly. “You are right. They will pry your gun from your cold dead hands,” which I often follow with the question, “And where will that leave you except face down in a pool of your own blood [in] the middle of the street, just another dead fool resisting the State?”

This is not a question they are comfortable with, if only because the intent of their saber-rattling was to imply they would fight to keep their weapons, and win.

Nice fantasy. It’s not happening.

If the federal government decides to disarm the public, and when the increasingly-militarized rolls down your street after a not-so-subtle request that you kindly turn over your firearms and ammunition “for the common good,” it will be nothing less than suicide by cop to do anything other than what you are told.

The militarization of US police forces is ongoing and escalating. Many cities and towns now own tanks, armed personnel carriers, even attack helicopters, and almost all are outfitted with military weapons not available to the general public.

And, it is not just your hometown cops who are getting new boy-toys. The military itself is buying up weaponry not just for use in the current or next scheduled war, but to deal with the likes of you, citizens who don’t seem to understand that the Bill of Rights has been overruled, and that specifically includes, but is not limited to, the right to protest and engage in civil disobedience.

Also ignored (as if it didn’t even exist) is the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 which generally bars the military from law enforcement activities within the United States.

According to Public Intelligence:

“…for the last two years, the President’s Budget Submissions for the Department of Defense have included purchases of a significant amount of combat equipment, including armored vehicles, helicopters and even artillery, under an obscure section of the FY2008 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for the purposes of ‘homeland defense missions, domestic emergency responses, and providing military support to civil authorities.’ Items purchased under the section include combat vehicles, tanks, helicopters, artillery, mortar systems, missiles, small arms and communications equipment. Justifications for the budget items indicate that many of the purchases are part of routine resupply and maintenance, yet in each case the procurement is cited as being ‘necessary for use by the active and reserve components of the Armed Forces for homeland defense missions, domestic emergency responses, and providing military support to civil authorities’ under section 1815 of the FY 2008 NDAA.”

And, they are not just arming cops and weekend warriors for domestic purposes. Active duty Marines are now being trained for law enforcement operations all over the world (of which the US remains a part) specifically to deal with civil uprisings, and the US government knows that civil uprisings are coming to a town near you just as soon as the fantasy of a healing economy is shattered, the US dollar fails, and unemployment goes to 30%+ in real numbers.

And, to you tough-talking Neo-Cons with your AR-15 rifles and a few thousand rounds of ammo, here is the reality: they will take your guns, and no, all your Second Amendment bluster aside, you are not going to do anything about it. You are not going to take on a platoon of Marines with state-of-the-art automatic weapons and the best body armor you cannot buy protected by armed personnel carriers and attack helicopters unless you choose to die that day — for nothing. You will either be in the country or out, and if you are in, you will stay in and you will comply.

That is your choice… for the moment.

Regards,

Jim Karger
for The Daily Reckoning

Offline wallace11bravo

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Re: When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2013, 07:36:04 PM »
To answer the original question: No. I have long since come to terms with my morality, and I know some things eat at a man worse than dying. That being said, for the vast majority of "saber-rattlers" he is correct, most of the other information is mere fear mongering.

I found this to be a good read on this subject:
http://blog.wilsoncombat.com/paul-howe/2nd-amendment-and-the-kool-aid-drinkers-by-paul-howe/



Offline NENick

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Re: When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2013, 07:41:49 PM »
We'll surely wind up dead if the knock on the door comes and we start slinging lead. If people organize and stand shoulder to shoulder, it'll be a completely different story. Never forget that the gun confiscating criminals would be a drop in the bucket when compared to the armed citizenry. Just like the US military, they’d be in real trouble in a drawn out situation. There simply aren’t enough government agents…yet.

Offline lneuke

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Re: When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2013, 07:49:38 PM »
To answer the original question: No. I have long since come to terms with my morality, and I know some things eat at a man worse than dying. That being said, for the vast majority of "saber-rattlers" he is correct, most of the other information is mere fear mongering.

I found this to be a good read on this subject:
http://blog.wilsoncombat.com/paul-howe/2nd-amendment-and-the-kool-aid-drinkers-by-paul-howe/




Good read...kind of removes a little bit of my tinfoil hat

Offline AAllen

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Re: When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2013, 08:03:39 PM »
They seem to not realize, most of the police and military will join our side and bring their experience tanks attack helicopters and machine gins with them.  I have read where several police department feel that if a mass gun confiscation is ordered they will loose at lease 50 percent of their force  The military would expect even higher numbers defecting! Several retired Generals  have recently said that the military would completely disobey any order to confiscate civilian arms.

Offline abbafandr

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Re: When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2013, 08:23:34 PM »
They seem to not realize, most of the police and military will join our side and bring their experience tanks attack helicopters and machine gins with them.  I have read where several police department feel that if a mass gun confiscation is ordered they will loose at lease 50 percent of their force  The military would expect even higher numbers defecting! Several retired Generals  have recently said that the military would completely disobey any order to confiscate civilian arms.

I truly want to believe this.  I also hope it never comes to this. 

Offline wallace11bravo

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Re: When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2013, 08:38:42 PM »
Several retired Generals  have recently said that the military would completely disobey any order to confiscate civilian arms.

Except for this EDITED:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/retired-general-calls-serious-gun-control-measures-article-1.1235595

Same EDITED who ran Afghanistan into the ground, failed to stem the come back of the taliban, agreed to Karzai's 12 (google it) and seemed to not even the slightest understanding of Counter-Insurgency, Asymmetric Warfare, or even conventional warfare.

Hate to break it to you, but the vast majority of officers are no longer leaders, they are politicians and paper pushers. Anytime an officer is actually put in charge of anything, they screw it up.

Andy, read the article I linked to above. I personally know several cool aid drinkers and worse: people who oppose civilian firearms ownership, within the military and LE sectors. I'd say Paul's assessment is fairly accurate. I would say about 50/50 as far as percentages.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 08:45:51 PM by wallace11bravo »

Offline OnTheFly

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Re: When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2013, 11:14:23 PM »
My guns can't be confiscated.  They all fell in the Missouri river when I was transporting them in a canoe.  Dang...do I feel stupid.

Fly
Si vis pacem, para bellum

Offline unfy

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Re: When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2013, 02:36:36 AM »
I have my right to keep and bear arms.  Until there's a Constitutional amendment past stating otherwise, I shall remain armed.

If I am at home, and they knock on my door to STEAL my property, they will not be allowed inside.  If they forcibly enter the premises with the intention of taking my means of defending myself, I consider this a life threatening situation and *WILL* defend myself.... just as if someone else had broken into my house and went for the gun safe.

I have all due respect for LEO, and the military (being a military brat, but not having served myself)... but respect gets you a "sir", not a "surrender".

Just my 2 cents.
hoppe's #9 is not the end all be all woman catching pheramone people make it out to be ... cause i smell of it 2 or 3 times a week but remain single  >:D

Offline ckspeed

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Re: When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2013, 09:35:41 AM »
We'll surely wind up dead if the knock on the door comes and we start slinging lead. If people organize and stand shoulder to shoulder, it'll be a completely different story. Never forget that the gun confiscating criminals would be a drop in the bucket when compared to the armed citizenry. Just like the US military, they’d be in real trouble in a drawn out situation. There simply aren’t enough government agents…yet.


^^^ This is 100% correct IMO. 

One person standing their ground is just a gun nut, a "lone wolf", and doesn't stand a chance.  However a group, a community, a city, a nation, will not be a drop in the bucket and cannot be ignored. Remember the phrase "United We Stand, Divided We Fall"? 

Offline CitizenClark

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Re: When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2013, 10:53:02 AM »
I read this awhile back on dailyreckoning.com.  What do we think?

I think it is apparent that this writer doesn't know much about asymmetric warfare.

Offline dcjulie

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Re: When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2013, 11:32:40 AM »
My guns can't be confiscated.  They all fell in the Missouri river when I was transporting them in a canoe.  Dang...do I feel stupid.

Fly

That's a damn shame fly!  So sorry to hear that yours are hanging down there with mine from my boating accident. :(   

Offline Phantom

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Re: When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2013, 11:35:04 AM »
 The writer also doesn't seem to understand that a lot of those same military personal
from time to time leave or retire from the  military and they then become civilians once again .......

Oh and They also buy gun & ammo for hunting or defence.........


(I'm just saying) 
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Offline just_me_mongo

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Re: When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2013, 12:56:39 PM »
We'll surely wind up dead if the knock on the door comes and we start slinging lead. If people organize and stand shoulder to shoulder, it'll be a completely different story. Never forget that the gun confiscating criminals would be a drop in the bucket when compared to the armed citizenry. Just like the US military, they’d be in real trouble in a drawn out situation. There simply aren’t enough government agents…yet.

I agree completely :-)
"One of the ordinary modes by which tyrants accomplish their purposes without resistance is by disarming the people and making it an offense to keep arms." - Joseph Story

Offline bkoenig

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Re: When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2013, 01:35:02 PM »
According to Gallup, 47% of Americans own guns.  That equates to about 118,000 people in Lincoln alone.  If just 1% of those people in Lincoln decide to band together and fight for their rights that's still almost 1,200 people.  1,200 determined patriots could make quite a stand, enough that no one in local or Federal government would risk the PR nightmare.

Offline Neeco

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Re: When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2013, 01:50:36 PM »
According to Gallup, 47% of Americans own guns.  That equates to about 118,000 people in Lincoln alone.  If just 1% of those people in Lincoln decide to band together and fight for their rights that's still almost 1,200 people.  1,200 determined patriots could make quite a stand, enough that no one in local or Federal government would risk the PR nightmare.

Even the low end of that number, say half, would create enough of a nightmare that it would take serious action to quell.  600 Armed and pissed off Americans will be in just one city, in just one state, in just a single region of our country.  What type of manpower would be needed to quell a COUNTRY of pissed off Americans willing to defend their rights? WHO would stand against such a, wait for it... armed citizen group??? 

Offline NE Bull

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Re: When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2013, 01:52:49 PM »
GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH! 
I just don't see what is so hard to understand.
“It is not an issue of being afraid, It's an issue of not being afraid to protect myself.”
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 "A gun is a tool, Marian; no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that."  Shane

Offline NENick

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Re: When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2013, 02:19:16 PM »
Even the low end of that number, say half, would create enough of a nightmare that it would take serious action to quell.  600 Armed and pissed off Americans will be in just one city, in just one state, in just a single region of our country.  What type of manpower would be needed to quell a COUNTRY of pissed off Americans willing to defend their rights? WHO would stand against such a, wait for it... armed citizen group??? 
How big is OPD, 800 officers? Add on top of your statement that a boat load of the government responders will say "I didn't sign up for this" and disband.

Offline NENick

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Re: When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2013, 02:24:51 PM »
I pray that we don't end up on some server somewhere on a list of potential instigators.

Offline Neeco

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Re: When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2013, 02:38:48 PM »
I pray that we don't end up on some server somewhere on a list of potential instigators.

To late for that bud. :tinfoil: But, the reality is, that I am in no way condoning the use of force against our paid protectors.  When it comes to a BG busting down my door demanding what is rightfully and legally mine or intending to do harm to me and mine, I will respond with precise and deadly force, no matter their sex, color, or clothing.