Spring Gardening: preparation to bounty.

[Neeco]

I will be starting my first garden this spring (here shortly) and I have a bed that I have been putting my yard clippings in, letting them dry, then tilling into the soil.

For those that actually have successful spring and summer/fall gardens, where do I start now?

I have read that I need to adjust the pH.

We plan to have an indoor test run in the spring for veggies and salsa components. In the summer we would like cukes, maters, and a host of other things.

We are in climate zone 5.

Also, I have dark soil, and it is typically rather clay-ey. Any suggestions besides testing it? Amend with top soil/compost?

Wasn't sure I wanted this in the survival category as it will not be a survival garden, yet...  But we would love some insight with that type of garden in mind.  We have an ample yard and have one section already sectioned off. It is about 6 x 10 and was a previous dog kennel spot.  Hopefully that means the soil is well... fertilized.

[gigabelly]

Well, there is a lot of ground to cover here.  Okay, I will go in order of your post.  First, if you have an iphone, get the gardnate app.  It tells you what you can plant, when.  It is good that you are starting to garden now, because if we ever get to where we have to survive off our garden, a lot of people will starve.  I have been gardening, organically with heirlooms, for several years.  A lot of stuff goes wrong and it isn't as simple as dirt water and sun. 

Ph is important in most regions, but I have never really worried about it here in Nebraska.  The soil is pretty rich around here.  The clay can be combated with sand, but I suggest you keep doing what you are doing, with the compost.  You may want to compost separately from your bed, however.  That is not paramount, but it will compost better and then you can mix it in with your tilling.

Go get some of those little greenhouse flats.  They have the transparent plastic lid to make miniature greenhouses.  I already have Kale and parsley up.  I have peppers planted but they  have yet to sprout.  This is just as expected.  Some plants just germinate and sprout faster than others. 

Also, some things shouldn't be panted next to each other and some things should.  Plants love Nitrogen and some plants, beans in particular, are nitrogen fixators so other plants thrive around them.  In your garden, surround the perimeter with garlic and onions.  Also, marigold flowers.  These things will help to keep some pests at bay.  This is all called companion planting.  You can find volumes of info on this and it gets confusing, the app helps.

Okay. Lastly, use Heirlooms.  Most seeds and plants you buy at the store are hybrids.  They cannot usually reproduce for more than one or two generations.  Then they will either die off or revert to one of their parent varieties.  If you use Heirlooms, you can save the seeds, and they will be reproducing for your grandkids without ever having to buy another seed.  That is part of the problem that seed companies have with heirlooms.  They lose their customer base after the first purchase.  Therefore, the heirloom market is seek as kooky and is marginalized.  This makes heirlooms harder to find, but several companies specialize in only heirlooms.  I buy from Heirloomsolutions.com  but there are many out there.  Also, there is a seed swap every winter, but it has already passed this year.  It is usually at Meadowlark Coffee on South St.   

Okay, that is the 30,000 foot view of gardening.  PM me if like.  Best of luck.  Gardening is a very rewarding, yet frustrating, hobby that might just save your life, so it is virtuous is my opinion.  Let me know if I can help

[Mudinyeri]

A note on grass clippings: You may be introducing grass and weed seed into your garden, depending on the state of your grass when cut and whether or not your lawn contains weeds that have gone to seed.

If you're new to gardening and composting here are a couple good articles on composting:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/organic-gardening/composting-myths-composting-facts-zmaz98djzraw.aspx#axzz2MmTrVz5V
http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/airwaste/wm/recycle/compost/Home3.htm

As far as a container for your compost goes, you can go really simple or you can upgrade a bit to a compost tumbler.  Tumblers are nice because they make aerating the compost (providing oxygen) really easy.

Here's an excellent primer for anyone new to gardening: http://www.motherearthnews.com/Organic-Gardening/1989-03-01/Beginning-Gardening.aspx#axzz2MmTrVz5V

[Neeco]

Well, there is a lot of ground to cover here.  Okay, I will go in order of your post.  First, if you have an iphone, get the gardnate app.  It tells you what you can plant, when.  It is good that you are starting to garden now, because if we ever get to where we have to survive off our garden, a lot of people will starve.  I have been gardening, organically with heirlooms, for several years.  A lot of stuff goes wrong and it isn't as simple as dirt water and sun. 

Ph is important in most regions, but I have never really worried about it here in Nebraska.  The soil is pretty rich around here.  The clay can be combated with sand, but I suggest you keep doing what you are doing, with the compost.  You may want to compost separately from your bed, however.  That is not paramount, but it will compost better and then you can mix it in with your tilling.

Go get some of those little greenhouse flats.  They have the transparent plastic lid to make miniature greenhouses.  I already have Kale and parsley up.  I have peppers planted but they  have yet to sprout.  This is just as expected.  Some plants just germinate and sprout faster than others. 

Also, some things shouldn't be panted next to each other and some things should.  Plants love Nitrogen and some plants, beans in particular, are nitrogen fixators so other plants thrive around them.  In your garden, surround the perimeter with garlic and onions.  Also, marigold flowers.  These things will help to keep some pests at bay.  This is all called companion planting.  You can find volumes of info on this and it gets confusing, the app helps.

Okay. Lastly, use Heirlooms.  Most seeds and plants you buy at the store are hybrids.  They cannot usually reproduce for more than one or two generations.  Then they will either die off or revert to one of their parent varieties.  If you use Heirlooms, you can save the seeds, and they will be reproducing for your grandkids without ever having to buy another seed.  That is part of the problem that seed companies have with heirlooms.  They lose their customer base after the first purchase.  Therefore, the heirloom market is seek as kooky and is marginalized.  This makes heirlooms harder to find, but several companies specialize in only heirlooms.  I buy from Heirloomsolutions.com  but there are many out there.  Also, there is a seed swap every winter, but it has already passed this year.  It is usually at Meadowlark Coffee on South St.   

Okay, that is the 30,000 foot view of gardening.  PM me if like.  Best of luck.  Gardening is a very rewarding, yet frustrating, hobby that might just save your life, so it is virtuous is my opinion.  Let me know if I can help

Thanks Gig!

So.  Our first goal is salsa.  We don't use much of the other veggies, and the salsa components grow fairly well in our neighborhood. 

I don't know how to take plants to seed, but google will tell me, I am sure.  You let them die without harvest don't you?

Some specifics-
1- What plants should I start indoors right now?
2- What would you consider the best way to combat the high clay soil, adding a planting type sand? Continually adding compost?  I have another spot on my property that should be where I put a shed, but that isn't going to happen this year, so I could certainly build a compost bin there.  What else besides grass clippings make good compost?  Organics from the kitchen, I assume.
3- Any no-no's I should know in advance?  Again my plot is roughly 6x10 and near our house, and our deck.  It gets plenty of sun from noon on as it runs east-west.
4- Heirlooms- can you suggest any specifics for say:
    a) tomato
    b) onion (we prefer a white onion in our salsa, and yellow for cooking)
    c) peppers (jalapeno and bell)
    d) herbs (coriander/cilantro)  (are these perennials?)

That's enough questions for now.  I could go on and on.... As there is plenty of info online, but its all opinionated from untrusted sources.  Not that I trust you lot, but at least you are local in the event of a poisoning... :grin:

[Neeco]

A note on grass clippings: You may be introducing grass and weed seed into your garden, depending on the state of your grass when cut and whether or not your lawn contains weeds that have gone to seed.

If you're new to gardening and composting here are a couple good articles on composting:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/organic-gardening/composting-myths-composting-facts-zmaz98djzraw.aspx#axzz2MmTrVz5V
http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/airwaste/wm/recycle/compost/Home3.htm

As far as a container for your compost goes, you can go really simple or you can upgrade a bit to a compost tumbler.  Tumblers are nice because they make aerating the compost (providing oxygen) really easy.

Here's an excellent primer for anyone new to gardening: http://www.motherearthnews.com/Organic-Gardening/1989-03-01/Beginning-Gardening.aspx#axzz2MmTrVz5V

Thanks Mudin!  I will peruse these during lunch. 

On the clippings:  You may be correct.  After the first batch of clippings in early spring last year, we had a rush of weeds (thorny bastids on the stems) and crab grass (not sure if thats actually what it was, but it had long runners that reminded me of crab grass).

Towards the summer/fall we had giant shrooms sprouting (after the drought subsided a bit, and I was willing to water the yard/garden).

[gigabelly]

You can go ahead and plant your peppers indoors. They take a while to produce and so often you get your  tomatoes and cilantro up but your peppers and onions are not producing till late summer.  Timing is important.  Learning to can is helpful in case you miss the timing.  You can save your tomatoes till the peppers are in, for example.

Two problems solved at once: Compost any plant based clippings or left overs.  Do NOT add dog poop to your clippings.  Cat poop either.  Chicken and rabbit poop is the best, but basically, you want the poop from herbivores, not carnivores.  Dogs kibble is made with meat. Maybe. Anyway, the only real exception to this is egg shells.  they compost well.  The other problem this solves is the clay.  Compost is not dirt.  It is organic matter that holds moisture and fertilizes.  It also will cut your clay when worked in.  Note that term: worked.  It is work to get it in there good, but it will do it in time with regular tilling.

Make sure your plot gets full sun.  Put up a deer fence, even if you live in town.  I live near Southpoint and I have had deer in my back yard. Electric fences help with coons, but keep the ground wet below the fence.

Start your Heilooms with just one.  Some stuff is hard to seed save.  Tomatoes are a great starting point.  I personally love the Nebraska Wedding tomatoes the best, but they are yellow and kinda sweet for salsa in some peoples opinions.  You may want a Brandywine or other variety. you can harvest the fruit, just pull the seeds out and dry them.  Then store in a zip lock in the freezer after they are completely dried out.  Next year, pull em out and plant them.  You can do this every year as long as you live.  And, they taste better.

Cilantro is easy, too. I actually get two seasons of cilantro in one year.  Take the coriander and just stick them back in the dirt.  Doesn't always work, but it does fairly well. 

Hope this helps.  Oh, get a rain barrel. Plants prefer rainwater to processed city water. 

This hobby will pay for itself, by the way.  We hardly buy any produce in the late spring, summer, and early fall.  With food prices skyrocketing, it will be a skill others will envy.  Till they outlaw gardening, of course. 

[gigabelly]

Mudinyeri is right about introducing weed seed into your compost.  That is why  a container helps.  When composting, your organic matter will heat up to around 120 degrees, thereby killing any seeds in it.  That is one reason why separate composting is superior to mixing in through the year.

Also, you will be amazed at how much matter you add to your compost and how little compost you get out of it.  I have a large lot and I save all my clippings and a couple of my neighbors.  I would say I get about 4 wheelbarrels worth when it is done cooking.

[Neeco]

You can go ahead and plant your peppers indoors. They take a while to produce and so often you get your  tomatoes and cilantro up but your peppers and onions are not producing till late summer.  Timing is important.  Learning to can is helpful in case you miss the timing.  You can save your tomatoes till the peppers are in, for example.

Two problems solved at once: Compost any plant based clippings or left overs.  Do NOT add dog poop to your clippings.  Cat poop either.  Chicken and rabbit poop is the best, but basically, you want the poop from herbivores, not carnivores.  Dogs kibble is made with meat. Maybe. Anyway, the only real exception to this is egg shells.  they compost well.  The other problem this solves is the clay.  Compost is not dirt.  It is organic matter that holds moisture and fertilizes.  It also will cut your clay when worked in.  Note that term: worked.  It is work to get it in there good, but it will do it in time with regular tilling.

Make sure your plot gets full sun.  Put up a deer fence, even if you live in town.  I live near Southpoint and I have had deer in my back yard. Electric fences help with coons, but keep the ground wet below the fence.

Start your Heilooms with just one.  Some stuff is hard to seed save.  Tomatoes are a great starting point.  I personally love the Nebraska Wedding tomatoes the best, but they are yellow and kinda sweet for salsa in some peoples opinions.  You may want a Brandywine or other variety. you can harvest the fruit, just pull the seeds out and dry them.  Then store in a zip lock in the freezer after they are completely dried out.  Next year, pull em out and plant them.  You can do this every year as long as you live.  And, they taste better.

Cilantro is easy, too. I actually get two seasons of cilantro in one year.  Take the coriander and just stick them back in the dirt.  Doesn't always work, but it does fairly well. 

Hope this helps.  Oh, get a rain barrel. Plants prefer rainwater to processed city water. 

This hobby will pay for itself, by the way.  We hardly buy any produce in the late spring, summer, and early fall.  With food prices skyrocketing, it will be a skill others will envy.  Till they outlaw gardening, of course. 

Sooo... Are you saying the manure from the dog kennel is a bad thing?  It is, remember, not our kennel but the previous owners, And has since been removed, the area tilled and clippings worked/tilled in all last year.

And we have a wood fence for deer, I live in Waverly so they are common enough in the town, but if a deer can get into my backyard, I have other issues....

Coons are likely not going to be able to squeeze in, but we have plenty of rabbits and cats and other critters on a regular basis... Wish I could harvest the rabbits, but there is no trapping/hunting in town limits (I am assuming)...

[gigabelly]

Yes.  I am saying the dog manure is crap....oh, sorry.  Get it out of the garden.  Ever notice how dog urine and poop kills your grass?

Get some backyard chickens.  It is the right time of year.  We have 6 and love it.  The poop is Plentiful and the eggs are sooo incredibly good.  If you have kids, they will love em.  THe feed is cheap...well it is chicken feed.  and they eat some of the compost.  That is okay because they break it down further and it composts much faster.  They help with insects...a lot.  But, they will eat your maters and kale, and spinach, and on and on and on.   Plus, you know what your chickens are eating so you know what you are eating. 
They actually sell chicken poop.  It is called coop poop at earl may.  go figure. 

[Neeco]

Yes.  I am saying the dog manure is crap....oh, sorry.  Get it out of the garden.  Ever notice how dog urine and poop kills your grass?

Get some backyard chickens.  It is the right time of year.  We have 6 and love it.  The poop is Plentiful and the eggs are sooo incredibly good.  If you have kids, they will love em.  THe feed is cheap...well it is chicken feed.  and they eat some of the compost.  That is okay because they break it down further and it composts much faster.  They help with insects...a lot.  But, they will eat your maters and kale, and spinach, and on and on and on.   Plus, you know what your chickens are eating so you know what you are eating. 
They actually sell chicken poop.  It is called coop poop at earl may.  go figure. 

How am I supposed to get the dog poo out of the ground when it has been broken down into particles for the last year? 

Maybe I am not making it clear, there is no actual poo left, and I am not supplimenting with ANY manure at this time.

The track that I repurposed into a garden was the track the kennel sat on, as there wasn't any grass there anyway.

I haz a sad now if my veggies are going to have a hint of dog to them...

I have thought of getting chickens, but that may be a little out of my scope at the moment.  I would have to build shelters and not sure my neighbors would like the smell.  While I am sure they would love the bounty...

[gigabelly]

No, I didn't understand.  Just don't add any more.  If it is already broken down, it is fine. 

[Mudinyeri]

Sure, dog manure is crap.  However, if it is plentiful, you can use it in your compost.  FWIW, most dog food contains very little actual meat. 

Here is an excellent resource on dog poop compost from the USDA and the Fairbanks (AK) Soil and Water Conservation District: ftp://ftp-fc.sc.egov.usda.gov/AK/Publications/dogwastecomposting2.pdf

Composting is different from simply tilling organic matter (dog manure, grass clippings, etc.) into your soil.  One of the major differences, as gigabelly mentioned, is the heat generated by composting.  Heat, over time, kills bacteria, grass seeds, weed seeds and other undesirable elements that may be a part of your organic material.  Without the heat generated by composting, the undesirable elements take much longer to break down.  You can "denature" the undesirables by working in desirable materials, e.g. compost, potting soil, etc to "cut" the percentage of undesirable elements in your garden patch.

Without composting or cutting, you may end up with some foul tasting veggies.  Terroir is the characteristics of the land interacting with the genetics of the plants to produce the final product.  In this case, your land has the characteristic of dog manure.  Ultimately, that manure may show up in the flavor of your garden's produce.  The flavor may be undetectable or it may be very strong.

[gigabelly]

Well, ya learn something every day.  I don't claim to be any sort of authority  on any subject, but I can look at something with an open mind and reexamine an issue I thought was solved.  I guess, then, that the decision for or against dog waste composting is up to the individual.  I was always told not to.  Toby has shown that it might be okay.  That is the beauty of community, I suppose.  Thanks Toby.  Now, go write a novel, would ya? I cant wait for UCJII

[Mudinyeri]

Well, ya learn something every day.  I don't claim to be any sort of authority  on any subject, but I can look at something with an open mind and reexamine an issue I thought was solved.  I guess, then, that the decision for or against dog waste composting is up to the individual.  I was always told not to.  Toby has shown that it might be okay.  That is the beauty of community, I suppose.  Thanks Toby.  Now, go write a novel, would ya? I cant wait for UCJII

You may recall that human waste was being used for compost in my first book.

[Neeco]

Sure, dog manure is crap.  However, if it is plentiful, you can use it in your compost.  FWIW, most dog food contains very little actual meat. 

Here is an excellent resource on dog poop compost from the USDA and the Fairbanks (AK) Soil and Water Conservation District: ftp://ftp-fc.sc.egov.usda.gov/AK/Publications/dogwastecomposting2.pdf

Composting is different from simply tilling organic matter (dog manure, grass clippings, etc.) into your soil.  One of the major differences, as gigabelly mentioned, is the heat generated by composting.  Heat, over time, kills bacteria, grass seeds, weed seeds and other undesirable elements that may be a part of your organic material.  Without the heat generated by composting, the undesirable elements take much longer to break down.  You can "denature" the undesirables by working in desirable materials, e.g. compost, potting soil, etc to "cut" the percentage of undesirable elements in your garden patch.

Without composting or cutting, you may end up with some foul tasting veggies.  Terroir is the characteristics of the land interacting with the genetics of the plants to produce the final product.  In this case, your land has the characteristic of dog manure.  Ultimately, that manure may show up in the flavor of your garden's produce.  The flavor may be undetectable or it may be very strong.

So, with that said, what is the difference in bagged manure and dog manure, if you are going to taste it in the veggie?  Personally, I'd rather taste cow, if given a choice, but poo still taste like poo.  Not that I would know...

Thanks again for the insight Toby!   

First thing I am going to do is probably build or buy some sort of compost bin/box for the corner of the yard.  Then I need to get the soil tested and figure out what to mix in.   Also need to get some plants started indoors to be ready come full spring.

Meh, either way, its the experience that matters, more than the bounty the first year. 

[Neeco]

You may recall that human waste was being used for compost in my first book.

Are you published in hard copies?  Or is it strictly electronically based?

I would love a version in Audio book format if there is one.

I have to be honest, I have read a couple chapters of your current blog/story, and put it aside to actually work.  Need to pick it up again...

[gigabelly]

Right.  We are omnivores.  We used to use septic tank sludge for fertilizer.  Gross, but it works.  In fact, the lawn fertilizer Millagronite, is produced by the sewage department in Minneapolis, I think.  It is processed, but it is what it is. 

Also, the Native Americans taught us to bury a fish with the corn.  Now you can buy fish emulsion and that works great.  Better than the dead fish in your yard and your neighbors wont laugh at you fish burials.

Good look, Neeco

[Mudinyeri]

So, with that said, what is the difference in bagged manure and dog manure, if you are going to taste it in the veggie? 

The composition of manure, especially fresh, un-composted manure tilled directly into the soil, will produce varying flavor subtleties depending on the animal, the sex of the animal, the animal's diet, etc.  My bigger concern, as far as flavor goes, is tilling in fresh manure of any sort - canine, feline, bovine, porcine, equine, human or any other - directly into the soil shortly before planting.  As gigabelly suggested earlier, you can see what your dog's poop on your yard does to your grass.

As for my book, it is not available in print.  However, you can purchase it for Kindle or Nook and, I believe, use the audio feature of any compatible device to play it back as an audio book.

[JimP]

We plan to have an indoor test run in the spring for veggies and salsa components. In the summer we would like cukes, maters, and a host of other things.

I just saw this ...... I've been making my own salsa for about 10 years ........ Salsa garden must haves include Tomatoes, peppers, onion, and cilantro.....

I also had clay soil (about a foot and a half of it) over a layer of sandy "hardpan"....... adding organic matter via compost/grass clippings/manure/whatever is a long term solution ...... what you can do this year, when you transplant your started veggies is to use a post hole digger, thusly:

http://thedeliberateagrarian.blogspot.com/2008/03/my-whizbang-squash-planting-secret.html

It basicly involves making the soil around and under your plant as good as you can get it, and not feeding the space between your plants ......

The three best tips I can give for gardening are the use of drip irrigation and MULCH! everything you don't want weeds growing out of..... and pruning your tomato vines to get airflow undereath them will keep fungi from climbing up on them.....

That Deliberate Agrarian site is full of gardening info...... he's got all kinds of good information and ideas  ...... I want to try his row cover ideas ......

[Hank]

Looks like you have a wealth of good replies to the OP, so all I can add is, ` I am soooo ready for warmer weather so I can do yard work and gardening...( is that a sign of getting old?)..lol
We usually just plant tomato, cukes,bell pepper, banana pepper, cantelope, beets(yuck..taste like dirt to me),and asparagus(gets better each year), and the wife also uses dill for pickled spicy carrots,also have rhubarb for pies. This year we need to start strawberries over..they were overcome by some kind of vine that is throughout the back yard.