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Author Topic: Info on Government Stockpile of Ammo  (Read 5638 times)

Offline SemperFiGuy

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Offline Gary

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Re: Info on Government Stockpile of Ammo
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2013, 03:39:13 PM »
It will give them some way of filling the millions of 3 person coffins Fema has stockpiled all around the country. 

That child game of connect the dots, makes todays headlines rather ominous.


Offline abbafandr

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Re: Info on Government Stockpile of Ammo
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2013, 07:51:28 PM »
Should I adjust my tin foil hat, again?

Offline RedDot

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Re: Info on Government Stockpile of Ammo
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2013, 11:15:06 PM »
I still have trouble believing "high-minded elitist Liberals" could openly suppress this country.  You could overwhelm most of them with a fart in a cramped elevator. >:D

Offline Hank

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Re: Info on Government Stockpile of Ammo
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2013, 11:07:55 PM »
you guys...tin foil hat adjustment..etc :laugh:
I know next gun show I attend I`ll be looking for a copy of the jihadis guide to IED`s ...lol

Offline ILoveCats

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Re: Info on Government Stockpile of Ammo
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2013, 02:16:18 PM »
I still have trouble believing "high-minded elitist Liberals" could openly suppress this country.  You could overwhelm most of them with a fart in a cramped elevator. >:D

That's why these kooky theories are so laughable, whether the party in power is liberal or conservative.  Whether it's the "FEMA death camps" theory, the "massive stockpiles of ammo" theories that are based on mis-reading of RFPs, a general misunderstanding of the truly massive scope of securing the border (e.g. the Border Patrol is the largest law enforcement agency in the US for a reason: we have a BIG border on the edge of a hell-hole country), or oldies like the "moon landing hoax" theory; the point that people don't get unless they've actually worked inside the beltway is ... there's NO WAY the government could actually keep a major secret on something so nefarious.

That's not a slam on any administration.  The system is **supposed** to be like that!  There are times when officials of any branch overstep their bounds, and that's when "leaks" can and do happen.  Watergate is the big example, but there are lots of smaller leaks that have been success stories.  Some agencies even have dedicated "Dissent" channels communications by which anyone, without any supervisory approval, and send a "dissent" message directly to the top of the organizational chart. 

And then there's the media which - as annoying as they can be - are actually an effective "fourth" branch of government providing checks-and-balances of their own.  Regardless of their political bent, it's every journalist's dream to be the next Bob Woodward and uncover a corrupt administration.  And that's a good thing.

Another factor is that the federal law enforcement officers, who feature as villains in the kooky theories, are in reality some of the most patriotic and staunchly conservative folks you'll find out there.  That's usually because they're pulled out of military ranks.  There's a veteran's preference applied to federal hiring which makes it very difficult for non-vets to get in.  The higher the disability incurred in combat, the higher the preference.  Again, that's a good thing.  As much as we love to moan about organizations like TSA, I've seen a lot of TSA guys with pretty awful burns and other obvious injuries, and it's not much of a stretch to assume those were incurred in combat.  (By comparison, I've found the private sector can often be disappointingly / disgustingly reluctant to hire veterans, especially if they suspect PTSD.)

If people want to watch something fictional that is a better representation of Washington ills than the kook sites depict, I **HIGHLY** suggest the Netflix-only miniseries "House of Cards".   For something produced exclusively by/for Netflix, it's surprisingly good television.  Sure, it's a lot of fantastical caricature with all the drama that they've packed into it of drugs, murder, sex, etc.  But, in terms of depicting the political horse-trading and power plays, it at least gives the viewer a little better taste of how things can work inside the beltway. 
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Offline RedDot

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Re: Info on Government Stockpile of Ammo
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2013, 05:09:56 PM »
That's why these kooky theories are so laughable, whether the party in power is liberal or conservative.  Whether it's the "FEMA death camps" theory, the "massive stockpiles of ammo" theories that are based on mis-reading of RFPs, a general misunderstanding of the truly massive scope of securing the border (e.g. the Border Patrol is the largest law enforcement agency in the US for a reason: we have a BIG border on the edge of a hell-hole country), or oldies like the "moon landing hoax" theory; the point that people don't get unless they've actually worked inside the beltway is ... there's NO WAY the government could actually keep a major secret on something so nefarious.

That's not a slam on any administration.  The system is **supposed** to be like that!  There are times when officials of any branch overstep their bounds, and that's when "leaks" can and do happen.  Watergate is the big example, but there are lots of smaller leaks that have been success stories.  Some agencies even have dedicated "Dissent" channels communications by which anyone, without any supervisory approval, and send a "dissent" message directly to the top of the organizational chart. 

And then there's the media which - as annoying as they can be - are actually an effective "fourth" branch of government providing checks-and-balances of their own.  Regardless of their political bent, it's every journalist's dream to be the next Bob Woodward and uncover a corrupt administration.  And that's a good thing.

Another factor is that the federal law enforcement officers, who feature as villains in the kooky theories, are in reality some of the most patriotic and staunchly conservative folks you'll find out there.  That's usually because they're pulled out of military ranks.  There's a veteran's preference applied to federal hiring which makes it very difficult for non-vets to get in.  The higher the disability incurred in combat, the higher the preference.  Again, that's a good thing.  As much as we love to moan about organizations like TSA, I've seen a lot of TSA guys with pretty awful burns and other obvious injuries, and it's not much of a stretch to assume those were incurred in combat.  (By comparison, I've found the private sector can often be disappointingly / disgustingly reluctant to hire veterans, especially if they suspect PTSD.)

If people want to watch something fictional that is a better representation of Washington ills than the kook sites depict, I **HIGHLY** suggest the Netflix-only miniseries "House of Cards".   For something produced exclusively by/for Netflix, it's surprisingly good television.  Sure, it's a lot of fantastical caricature with all the drama that they've packed into it of drugs, murder, sex, etc.  But, in terms of depicting the political horse-trading and power plays, it at least gives the viewer a little better taste of how things can work inside the beltway. 

I stated that I don't believe they COULD successfully suppress the country, however I have yet to be convinced that they are not so far out of touch that they THINK they could.  John Brown thought the raid on Harper's Ferry would start a slave insurrection.  Charles Manson thought the Tate/Labianca murders would start a racial war.  Bin laden thought the 9/11 attacks would get the U.S. to pull out of the mideast.  In fact they were all wrong but nonetheless the attempts were made.

As for the press being the "fourth branch" of govt., nothing could be scarier to anyone other than Herr Goebbels.  The press today seems inclined to go along with what the govt. deems worthy of note.   Where are the Pulitzer seekers digging into Fast & Furious?  Surely one country illegally shipping guns into another would be worth an in depth look?  Wars have been declared over such actions in the past.  The Bengazi attack is still being brushed aside by most media, a dead ambassador and 3 other americans, more weapons trafficking, and a White House sponsored snow job (readily promoted by media), are apparently not enough to hold interest.  Yet ironically, the media was quick to applaud the arrest and detention of an Egyptian immigrant for exercising his newly aquired 1st amend. right, the same right which allows them to function.

True, there are fringe elements putting out rumors, but sometimes rumors lead to facts.  Trusting the mainstream media to search for those facts is about as effective as the "ghost shirts" worn by the Sioux. By the time you figure out it doesn't work, it's too damn late.

Offline gigabelly

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Re: Info on Government Stockpile of Ammo
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2013, 05:49:56 PM »
RedDot, you are much more tactful than I.  Thank you for that rebuttal.  My rough draft was rather....combative.  I like yours better.
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Offline RedDot

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Re: Info on Government Stockpile of Ammo
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2013, 06:09:54 PM »
Standing in the cold at 72nd & Dodge for 2 hours does wonders for clearing the mind  ;D

Offline Phantom

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Re: Info on Government Stockpile of Ammo
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2013, 06:25:01 PM »
Standing in the cold at 72nd & Dodge for 2 hours does wonders for clearing the mind 

how did it Go out there .....I wasn't feeling well enough to be there like i'd planed
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Offline SS_N_NE

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Re: Info on Government Stockpile of Ammo
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2013, 06:28:33 PM »
It seems our "transparent" administration is keeping a number of events and agendas rather opaque.

Recent Congressman questioning regarding DHS requisition of 1.6 billion rounds of ammuniton, 7000 select fire rifles, 2700 armored vehicles and body armor has resulted in no response.  It is concerning that we have a number of military branches that can provide security but are allowing another entity to build power without having to answer to purpose.

I recently sent email asking for the DHS purchase necessities to Administration, Senate, and Reps of NE. I am certain this will not get an answer, but at least press some concerns at the lack of answers.

Offline Phantom

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Re: Info on Government Stockpile of Ammo
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2013, 06:35:45 PM »
Recent Congressman questioning regarding DHS requisition of 1.6 billion rounds of ammuniton, 7000 select fire rifles, 2700 armored vehicles and body armor has resulted in no response.  It is concerning that we have a number of military branches that can provide security but are allowing another entity to build power without having to answer to purpose.

I recently sent email asking for the DHS purchase necessities to Administration, Senate, and Reps of NE. I am certain this will not get an answer, but at least press some concerns at the lack of answers.

No ......but it did get you listed on the NO Fly and several other lists  :P You bad boy! you....
« Last Edit: March 23, 2013, 06:40:50 PM by Phantom »
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Offline RedDot

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Re: Info on Government Stockpile of Ammo
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2013, 06:48:59 PM »
how did it Go out there .....I wasn't feeling well enough to be there like i'd planed

50-60 people showed up and stuck it out.  Lots of favorable responses from traffic.  Only saw/heard 2 hecklers, one screaming "Obama is God" which was puzzling as I would have assumed God in his omnipotence could manage a fiscal budget...  ??? go figure.  The other was someone wearing a scarf over their face pantomiming a drive by with his "finger gun".  Considering the high probability of CHP holders in the crowd I find the lack of intelligence from the opposition to be ...heartening. :kiss:

First time I ever went to such an event and I enjoyed it, felt safe enough to have my 12yr old daughter there, and am feeling pretty good for myself after being a part of it. ;D

Offline ILoveCats

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Re: Info on Government Stockpile of Ammo
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2013, 06:56:23 PM »
I think we're on the same page with what you've written there, RedDot.  I agree too that the issue is whether they "could" or "could not".  I'm not pretending that nobody ever would try.  Again to use the Nixon example, he tried some shenanigans -- and got caught.

That's why I say that the media and the first amendment play an important role, not forming a fourth branch in the Nazi sense that they are controlled by the administration, but rather that they are independent and free to also pitch in as part of the system of checks-and-balances.  I've lived much of my life posted overseas, including some pretty nasty places where the media truly were nothing more than a front for the dictator who had been running the country for a couple decades.  I've had very good friends dragged out of their houses at night by the "president's" goon squad and detained for a few weeks, just for writing the wrong story.  One friend finally got gunned down one night. Another finally gave up the good fight and sought (and received) asylum in the US after his newspaper's building was torched for the second time.  By comparison, we've got a heck of a great media despite their (generally) liberal tendencies and I'm as passionate about the first amendment as I am about the second.

I suppose conspiracy theories have their place.  As Nebraskans especially, we should all have the phrase “The salvation of the state is watchfulness in the citizen.” memorized from elementary school.  But... when the penchant for theories isn't balanced with discernment, let alone credible firsthand experience or knowledge, it quickly starts to become counterproductive, and detracts us from real threats. 

There are real threats that are being combated every day along our thousands of miles of land borders and coasts.  The prior, Bush administration set up a big, expensive way to deal with those threats.  Whether it is worth it is a valid conversation.  Should we stop inspecting EVERY single shipping container that enters the US for nukes or radiological devices? That would be good discussion.  Does Customs and Border Protection have UAVs and AWACS planes?  You bet, and they're on display every year at the Joint Forces Open House at Andrews AFB for you to see.  Shall we defund them and stop using them to watch the borders?  That would be a good discussion too.  Do they have Lenco Bearcat armored vehicles.  Yep... been there, done that.  Awesome ride.  Shall we take them away and make our guys drive unarmored pickups into cartel hostilities?  We can discuss that too.  My point is... at least those would all be discussions about real things that are really happening.

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Offline Dan W

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Re: Info on Government Stockpile of Ammo
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2013, 07:46:14 PM »
My question is this...

If all this activity can so easily be explained away, why does the administration not respond to inquiries from Congressman?

Especially when I believe the majority of Americans are wanting increased border security, and the answers would bolster that perception
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Offline ILoveCats

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Re: Info on Government Stockpile of Ammo
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2013, 09:46:37 PM »
My question is this...

If all this activity can so easily be explained away, why does the administration not respond to inquiries from Congressman?

Very interesting question.  The short answer is: I really don’t know why this isn’t handled better. 

If you look at social media forums, it’s easy to see that the homeland security components have major PR problems.  For every positive “thanks for keeping us safe” message on Facebook, etc., there are five ranting about the latest conspiracy theory. 

Obviously more transparency would help.  But I imagine -- in a world where a lot of the most worrisome threats are highly classified -- the activities and assets needed to counter those threats are commensurately classified.

Changing public perception is expensive.  Some agencies do it way better than others.  The DOD must have spent a fortune over the years running “Army of One” and “The Few, the Proud…” commercials.  NASA had some pretty effective programs to do outreach to teachers, who are in a position to then take cool science curricula back to the classroom and, in the process, get future generations psyched up about space exploration.  DHS’s own “Coast Guard Alaska” on the Weather Channel is quite good.  But, like I said, PR campaigns are spendy.  Using tax dollars to do PR to explain why an agency needs more tax dollars to buy more equipment or hire more people should be viewed quite skeptically.

As you suggest, though, the logical answer would just be to ANSWER the questions.  Explain why FEMA, which is responsible for dealing with large scale disasters, needs coffins.  (OK, that’s kind of a “duh” issue, but obviously some people need it spelled out, and what harm could come of explaining disaster preparations?)  Take the media on a tour of the federal law enforcement training centers.  Take them on ride-alongs on the southern border.  Maybe this is being offered and the media doesn’t care because they sell more commercials doing TV interviews with some idiot pop star.  Or maybe it’s not being done for reasons I cannot guess and am not privy to.  But if there is reluctance to answer, a fair assessment would be that the underlying reasons are highly “political” rather than apocalyptic. 

Ultimately, combating conspiracy theorists may just be swimming upstream.  Right now the “FEMA death camps” are en vogue.  Rewind to a few years ago and people on the other side of the political spectrum were claiming that President Bush used his hurricane-generating equipment to wipe out New Orleans.

My beef with the conspiracy theories is that they detract us from the real political fight.  Someone said here recently that this president wants to make us a communist nation.  That’s not quite right: he wants to make us a socialist one.  He wants to make us like Europe.  Hey, Europe’s an awesome place.  I have lived there, and I love visiting there.  But when I come back to the US, I don’t want it to be like Europe here.  The US is better, as evidenced by all the Europeans trying to immigrate here because they have lost their liberties.  We don’t need to “change.”

Wow, even as I wrote that last paragraph, it occurred to me THAT might be the answer to your question.  If your political opponents are barking up the wrong, conspiracy theory tree, why should you stop them?  Let them expend their time and resources in fruitless pursuits.
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Offline GreyGeek

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Re: Info on Government Stockpile of Ammo
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2013, 10:33:04 PM »
The biggest problem with the denial  is that they purchased JHP ammo for "target practice".   If they were buying in bulk to "save money", and for "training" purposes,   they'd purchase the cheaper ball ammo, not the more expensive hollow point ammo.

Offline RedDot

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Re: Info on Government Stockpile of Ammo
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2013, 10:38:46 PM »
Why do conspiracy theories get started?  For the most obvious of reasons,.. people feel they are being lied to.  I almost get the sense Feral, you are going to lengths to cover for the fact that this Admin. has repeatedly lied to the public.

 The conspiracies you look down on start out with one little nobody who sees something that makes him stop and think "Why is this happening? What is this for?".  In answer to his question he gets a nonsense answer or none at all, "nothing to see here".  Left to his own devices he may indeed come up with the wrong conclusion, but it does not disprove the fact that he did indeed see "something".

  In 1941 there were several "sightings" and indications which were dismissed right up to the time the first wave crossed over Pearl Harbor.  Leading up to the 9/11 attacks (both of them it seems) there were also several indictions of "something" building up. 

 It seems foolish to just dismiss it all as "conspiracy theory" as all facts start as theories and "sightings" and "somethings" have a bad way of adding up to hit us right in the mouth.

Offline NENick

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Re: Info on Government Stockpile of Ammo
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2013, 01:13:25 AM »
Why do conspiracy theories get started?  For the most obvious of reasons,.. people feel they are being lied to.  I almost get the sense Feral, you are going to lengths to cover for the fact that this Admin. has repeatedly lied to the public.

 The conspiracies you look down on start out with one little nobody who sees something that makes him stop and think "Why is this happening? What is this for?".  In answer to his question he gets a nonsense answer or none at all, "nothing to see here".  Left to his own devices he may indeed come up with the wrong conclusion, but it does not disprove the fact that he did indeed see "something".

  In 1941 there were several "sightings" and indications which were dismissed right up to the time the first wave crossed over Pearl Harbor.  Leading up to the 9/11 attacks (both of them it seems) there were also several indictions of "something" building up. 

 It seems foolish to just dismiss it all as "conspiracy theory" as all facts start as theories and "sightings" and "somethings" have a bad way of adding up to hit us right in the mouth.
This. I'm perfectly fine with conspiracy theories. I like to know that folks are out game planning and watching for potential problems. People who knock conspiracy theories never have any way to disprove them.

As for the government... I'll never trust it, nor assume that it isn't trying to utilize its current power to gain more power.

Offline SS_N_NE

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Re: Info on Government Stockpile of Ammo
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2013, 10:57:03 AM »
The biggest problem with the denial  is that they purchased JHP ammo for "target practice".   If they were buying in bulk to "save money", and for "training" purposes,   they'd purchase the cheaper ball ammo, not the more expensive hollow point ammo.

I also use various bullets in factory and reload ammo. Largely to test the function of various bullet styles in my handguns and reliability. It is not unreasonable to practice with JHP if you intend to use that style bullet. If your firearm chokes feeding hollow points, you need to resolve the issue or get a different firearm. I have noticed difference in various weight and style of bullet and charge to target hit (who hasn't that have tried different styles?). It could well be that someone is savy enough to realize that they should practice with what they will use on a regular basis.

Just my opinion/explanation. However, the sheer volume of ammunition is alarming. Maybe a "spend it" budget effort? They have funds allocated and need to spend it or loose it? Concern over ammo availability? A 'good ol' boy' purchase? A requisition error? Could be dozens of reasons, could be embarrasing to explain.

In any case, with issues of government spending and existing resources (military, et al) it seems unnecessary to build/fund another army. Especially when Obama suggested building some entity with military capacity in some of his speeches. I really dislike the idea that a president can evoke his own militia.