I'll just leave this here...

[Dan W]

Here’s the transcript

When it comes to the Background Check Bill, some of you might not like what I’m gonna say, but I spent hours and hours, in Senator Manchin, with Senator Manchin and Pat Toomey going over what’s in that Bill.  And, I’m a little upset with the one … this whole debates gotten so polarized that it’s really hard for anybody to be intellectually honest about what any of the Bills say.  [unintelligible]  I’ll be candid, unfortunately with the background check that’s really what the case is right now.

The initial background check bill that Schumer put in was horrible.  There’s no way that any of us could support it.  It was gun registrations, there’s no two ways about it,  The Manchin-Toomey Bill despite some of my colleagues in the Gun Rights Movement talking about that  it’s registration, it is not registration.  Ahhh .. To be perfectly candid about it, it states in it that no guns can be registered.  It also carries a section in it that any federal or any state or any gun dealer with access to the NICS Check Records who misuses those records for registration purposes commits a felony with a 15 year … up to a 15 year prison term.  That’s really great protection for us.

Right Now?   Any gun sold through a dealer that goes through a background check:  there is no protection.  If someone were to misuse that list nothing happens to them.  Now they will serve 15 years … up to 15 years in prison for misusing that list, if in fact they do so.  That’s great protection.  It’s the first time we’ve had protection.  Other things in that bill which my sides not talking about?  We’re not taling about it for a reason.

If we talk about it too much, the other sie’s gonna find out about it and they’re gonna realize we’re gonna win off of this thing.  The back ground check is not even a Universal Background Check.  It’s at gun shows, commercial venues, or the internet.  And, to be candid about it, it doesn’t cover family members, of any kind, or any friends, or any gun transaction, that’s not done at a gun show or basically on the internet.  It gives protection, if you do go through the background check, you as an individual will now get both civil and criminal liability protection that you don’t have now.  If somebody sold a gun to somebody who’s misused it, nobody can sue you even in a civil court for damages.  That’s great protection that you don’t have right now.

There’s about 10 other important things in there.  One of them them that some of you have read in the newspapers that a lot of Veterans are being disarmed so to speak once they come back from combat in Iraq and Afghanistan and all of a sudden because they were out processed and had stress problems the VA now puts their name into the NICS system they can’t own a gun, this new bill, this Background Check Bill has a provision in it to eradicate that. Their Rights will be restored.

It goes on and on.  Traveling across the country.  It gives you more protection so that you can take your gun from state to state than you have now.

Another important one, you cannot now legally buy a handgun in a state that you don’t live in.  If you’re not a resident of the state you can’t buy a handgun.  Under the so-call “Background CHeck Bill,” you’ll be able to buy a handgun in all 50 states, as long as you buy it from a licensed dealer you can buy it from anywhere you want.

There’s a Million other things in there it’s a Christmas Tree.  We just hung a Million Ornaments on it.  We’re taking the Background Check and making it a pro-gun bill.  Unfortunately some of my colleagues haven’t quite figured it out yet because they weren’t standing in the room writing it.  My staff was.  I’ll be perfectly candid about it.  This will probably break on Monday in the Wall Street Journal.  So your getting a little of “Inside Baseball.” …

[Dan W]

Manchin-Toomey deal could allow gun owners, sellers to carry, sell across state lines
   

Published April 13, 2013 FoxNews.com

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/13/manchin-toomey-deal-could-allow-gun-owners-seller-to-carry-sell-across-state/

The deal between Sens. Joe Manchin and Pat Toomey on the gun-controlled legislation scheduled for formal Senate debate next week could make it easier to carry concealed weapons across state lines.

The provision is part of the deal Manchin, D-W.V., and Toomey, R-Pa., reached earlier this week on background checks for gun buyers and will be among the first parts of the legislation that senators will consider.

The provision is similar to the Interstate Commerce Reform Act of 2012, which was sponsored by two Republicans -- Rep. Steve Scalise, Louisiana, and Sen. Orrin Hatch, Utah. The legislation failed despite strong support from the National Rifle Association.

The proposal essentially grants states "reciprocity" regarding concealed carry provisions.

In other words, the provision would grant gun owners the right to obtain a firearm and a concealed-carry permit in their home state, then use the permit to carry and conceal the firearm in another state.

~More at the link~

[SS_N_NE]

The GOA is calling it this way:

“See a Shrink, Lose your Guns” sell-out bill that is being authored by Senators Pat Toomey (R) and Joe Manchin (D) - but which also has Chuck Schumer’s fingerprints all over it.

[Gary]

Any politician today passes me a salt shaker over a meal, I am testing it for strychnine.

[SS_N_NE]

Is this still S. 649?

S. 649: Safe Communities, Safe Schools Act of 2013
or,
S. 649 "The Public Safety And Second Amendment Rights Protection Act,"

There are text version releases everywhere with different names and different content. There is a lot of grant money allocation, withholding, attorney general function without clear definition and formation of various office and committee formation/function without clear definition.

Here is some sections and comments at the GOA site: http://gunowners.org/congress04112013.htm

This is the type of thing in all of these proposals that concern me. Formation of commissions or what ever they choose to call them with no limits assigned (sections and comments are from the link above):

(9) “SUBTITLE C – NATIONAL COMMISSION ON MASS VIOLENCE.”

(a) "There is established a commission to be known as the National Commission on Mass Violence..."

COMMENT:  Half of the members (including the chairman) are appointed by Harry Reid, in consultation with Nancy Pelosi.  It is hard to imagine that this is anything other than a platform for continuing agitation for more gun control.

(b)  "The members [of the commission] shall include ... individuals who have expertise, by both experience and training, in -- (I) firearms..."

COMMENT:  Tacked onto a bill which ignores any remedy for violence except gun control, we now have a commission which has, as priority number one, guns.  We've seen this movie before.  Media efforts to exploit Newtown in order to achieve gun control will inexorably lead to more copycat shootings.  And, when they do, this commission will be there to serve as an engine for advocacy for anti-gun legislation.

(c)  "[The issues which the Commission shall study include] whether medical doctors and other mental health professionals have the ability, without negative legal or professional consequences, to notify law enforcement officials when a patient is a danger to himself or others..."

COMMENT:  It's not a huge thing, compared with the other problems in the bill.  But it's probably an indication of something that the draft looks not into whether turning in your patients to police or, possibly, the NICS system is ethical or ultimately efficacious, but, rather, whether it's legal.

(d)  "[The issues which the Commission shall study include] the availability and nature of firearms, including the means of acquiring such firearms, and all positive and negative impacts of such availability and nature on incidents of mass violence or in preventing mass violence..."

[FarmerRick]

Until I see the actual text of this Manchin-Toomey bill, I will just say this: Just because a private sale of a firearm happens in a building that has a lot of people wandering around in it, does not mean that that private sale should be treated any differently than one that happens at a shooting range, Walmart parking lot, or in someone's kitchen.

It bothers me greatly that the head of the SAF is touting the "great merits" of this compromise of our rights. 

[DanClrk51]

He also claims that the amendment gives vets their rights back in regards to being put on the list because of stress.

What I have seen in the "The Public Safety And Second Amendment Rights Protection Act" is that HIPAA protections would no longer apply and they would be able to start taking your guns away for merely being on certain medications or having been diagnosed by some mental health provider with having some form of mental illness.

This is a violation of Due Process. We dont need any more gun control...period. I dont care how good the candy in that bill is. Make no mistake about it, this amendment requires dealers to give gun show background checks priority over their own business transactions. This WILL raise costs!

[AAllen]

Text of the Toomey-Manchin bill/amendment that the CCRKBA has been involved in that seems to have the approval of Schumer (making it a friendly amendment so it has a lot better chance of being adopted than the NRA bill/amendment).  Before commenting too much I request that folks read the proposal for themselves, it is available in its entirety here:  http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/posted-full-text-public-safety-and-second-amendment-rights-protection-act_716249.HTML 

My reading of the bill it says that HIPAA rules apply, and the priority to "Gun Show" purchases are for the ATF/FBI (NICS background checks) not for dealers, in fact it blocks the price limit that other bills were trying to set for handling the transfer.

I think there are a couple of problems (Attorney General is blocked from having a gun registry, but not another non affiliated group, like the IRS) that need to be patched, but there are protections here that are good.  Knowing that the Senators are feeling pressured to do "something" you can not blame some for trying to make that be positive for us, unfortunately there are too many anti's that will try to change it and take it over.

[DanClrk51]

I wonder if the background check requirement for online stuff would include our forum firearms classifieds? Would it require BC's for online ads and thus face to face sales that are the fruits thereof?

[DanClrk51]

This is the language I was worried about Andy

"SEC. 117. CLARIFICATION THAT SUBMISSION OF MENTAL HEALTH RECORDS TO THE NATIONAL INSTANT CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECK SYSTEM IS NOT PROHIBITED BY THE HEALTH INSURANCE PORTABILITY AND ACCOUNTABILITY ACT."

To me that sounds like your mental health info would become accessible by the government via NICS and HIPAA wouldn't be able to protect against such.....leading to what has happened in New York State where they are confiscation firearms because people are on medication.

[AAllen]

That does make for an interesting question, and possibly opening another problem down the line.  At this time the only records that should be being reported are the names (personal data) for persons adjudged mentally incompetent, so it is not really a medical record but a court record but some states are questioning if that court record should be protected by the HIPAA rules as well and this is meant to clarify that.

I will say these questions and problems are what happens when legislation is rushed and not done with the full light of day being shown on the process.

[FarmerRick]

Well-known Gun Rights Attorney David Kopel is none too impressed...

http://www.volokh.com/2013/04/15/the-pro-gun-provisions-of-manchin-toomey-are-actually-a-bonanza-of-gun-control/

The “Pro-Gun” Provisions of Manchin-Toomey are Actually a Bonanza of Gun Control
David Kopel • April 15, 2013 2:20 am

The Toomey-Manchin Amendment which may be offered as soon as Tuesday to Senator Reid’s gun control bill are billed as a “compromise” which contain a variety of provisions for gun control, and other provisions to enhance gun rights. Some of the latter, however, are not what they seem. They are badly miswritten, and are in fact major advancements for gun control. In particular:

1. The provision which claims to outlaw national gun registration in fact authorizes a national gun registry.

2. The provision which is supposed to strengthen existing federal law protecting the interstate transportation of personal firearms in fact cripples that protection.



     ~  read more at link   ~

[FarmerRick]

Link to text of bill: http://www.toomey.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=968

gun show and private transfer section:


SEC. 122. FIREARMS TRANSFERS.
(a) In General.-Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is amended-
(1) by repealing subsection (s);
(2) by redesignating subsection (t) as subsection (s);
(3) in subsection (s), as redesignated-
(A) in paragraph (1)(B)-
(i) in clause (i), by striking "or";
(ii) in clause (ii), by striking "and" at the end; and
(iii) by adding at the end the following:
"(iii) in the case of an instant background check conducted at a gun show or event during the 4-year period beginning on the effective date under section 130(a) of the Public Safety and Second Amendment Rights Protection Act of 2013, 48 hours have elapsed since the licensee contacted the system, and the system has not notified the licensee that the receipt of a firearm by such other person would violate subsection (g) or (n) of this section; or
"(iv) in the case of an instant background check conducted at a gun show or event after the 4-year period described in clause (iii), 24 hours have elapsed since the licensee contacted the system, and the system has not notified the licensee that the receipt of a firearm by such other person would violate subsection (g) or (n) of this section; and";
(B) in paragraph (3)(C)(ii), by striking "(as defined in subsection (s)(8 ) )"; and
(C) by adding at the end the following:
"(7) In this subsection-
"(A) the term ‘chief law enforcement officer' means the chief of police, the sheriff, or an equivalent officer or the designee of any such individual; and
"(B) the term ‘gun show or event' has the meaning given the term in subsection (t)(7).
"(8 ) The Federal Bureau of Investigation shall not charge a user fee for a background check conducted pursuant to this subsection.
"(9) Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, upon receiving a request for an instant background check that originates from a gun show or event, the system shall complete the instant background check before completing any pending instant background check that did not originate from a gun show or event."; and
(4) by inserting after subsection (s), as redesignated, the following:
"(t)(1) Beginning on the date that is 180 days after the date of enactment of this subsection and except as provided in paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for any person other than a licensed dealer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed importer to complete the transfer of a firearm to any other person who is not licensed under this chapter, if such transfer occurs-
"(A) at a gun show or event, on the curtilage thereof; or
"(B) pursuant to an advertisement, posting, display or other listing on the Internet or in a publication by the transferor of his intent to transfer, or the transferee of his intent to acquire, the firearm.
"(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply if-
"(A) the transfer is made after a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer has first taken possession of the firearm for the purpose of complying with subsection (s), and upon taking possession of the firearm, the licensee-
"(i) complies with all requirements of this chapter as if the licensee were transferring the firearm from the licensee's business inventory to the unlicensed transferee, except that when processing a transfer under this chapter the licensee may accept in lieu of conducting a background check a valid permit issued within the previous 5 years by a State, or a political subdivision of a State, that allows the transferee to possess, acquire, or carry a firearm, if the law of the State, or political subdivision of a State, that issued the permit requires that such permit is issued only after an authorized government official has verified that the information available to such official does not indicate that possession of a firearm by the unlicensed transferee would be in violation of Federal, State, or local law;
"(B) the transfer is made between an unlicensed transferor and an unlicensed transferee residing in the same State, which takes place in such State, if-
"(i) the Attorney General certifies that State in which the transfer takes place has in effect requirements under law that are generally equivalent to the requirements of this section; and
"(ii) the transfer was conducted in compliance with the laws of the State;
"(C) the transfer is made between spouses, between parents or spouses of parents and their children or spouses of their children, between siblings or spouses of siblings, or between grandparents or spouses of grandparents and their grandchildren or spouses of their grandchildren, or between aunts or uncles or their spouses and their nieces or nephews or their spouses, or between first cousins, if the transferor does not know or have reasonable cause to believe that the transferee is prohibited from receiving or possessing a firearm under Federal, State, or local law; or
"(D) the Attorney General has approved the transfer under section 5812 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986.