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Author Topic: Homage to a Competition Shooter from a SOCOM operator.  (Read 1331 times)

Offline JTH

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Homage to a Competition Shooter from a SOCOM operator.
« on: April 17, 2013, 12:09:05 PM »
On Jerry Barnhart, by Kyle Defoor, discussing Kyle's memories of a great competition shooter who trained many, MANY soldiers in effective, efficient firearms usage.

http://www.kyledefoor.com/2010/11/homage-part-2-of-6.html


Why am I posting this?  Because shooting competitions will push you to be a better shooter.  Simple as that.  And if you DON'T push yourself, then how do you know if you are any good?  How do you know that you are good enough? 

Some other people's thoughts on trainers, and competition:

http://texasgunner.wordpress.com/2013/04/17/forged/

And another commentary on the "competition will get you killed on the street!" nonsense.

http://www.gunnuts.net/2013/04/11/tactical-vs-competition-theres-no-controversy/
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Offline SeanN

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Re: Homage to a Competition Shooter from a SOCOM operator.
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2013, 01:39:26 PM »
I used to think I was a pretty good shooter... Then I started competing. It really can be eye-opening.

I've improved a ton compared to when I first started but I know now that I still have a great deal to work on.

I highly recommend everyone do some competition, not to replace other forms of training, but to work on shooting skills under pressure and to gauge your talents and necessary development areas.

Offline JTH

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Re: Homage to a Competition Shooter from a SOCOM operator.
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2013, 01:50:01 PM »
I used to think I was a pretty good shooter... Then I started competing. It really can be eye-opening.

I've improved a ton compared to when I first started but I know now that I still have a great deal to work on.

I highly recommend everyone do some competition, not to replace other forms of training, but to work on shooting skills under pressure and to gauge your talents and necessary development areas.

There it is.  Competition tells you significant things about your shooting skills, that (quite frankly) you won't get anywhere else.
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Offline JTH

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Re: Homage to a Competition Shooter from a SOCOM operator.
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2013, 02:40:39 PM »
I used to think I was a pretty good shooter... Then I started competing. It really can be eye-opening.

A lot of people can't take the ego hit that occurs in their first competition, so they go away, never come back, and then (often) start repeating the mantra "that stuff will get you killed on the street" so that they don't have to ever be compared to good shooters again.

Everyone who says that isn't in that category, of course.  However, if you hear someone say it---either they haven't tried it, or just weren't very good.  Or maybe they believe it, because they haven't thought about it very much.

Let's see:  Mike Seeklander, Kyle Lamb, Frank Proctor, Bill Rogers, Pat MacNamara, Shannon Smith, and many others----ALL talk about the good things of competition.  (Heck, Larry Vickers was one of the founders of the competition sport of IDPA.  One of the scoring methods is named after him!)

Who doesn't speak well of competition?  People like Rob Pincus, who maintains that his method of teaching is the best due to his huge amount of personal experience, which consists of a couple of years as a 2nd Lt in the Reserve after ROTC, a couple of years as a cop in a small town, and a few years as the director of security of a resort. 

Don't get me wrong---Pincus is extremely well-known, has fantastic marketing, seriously good networking skills, and makes tons of money from his classes, DVDs, etc.  He's even talked the NRA into including some of his DVDs and such with the NRA materials.

He's also the idiot talking about things he either doesn't understand or deliberately misrepresents in the first video from this link:  http://www.gunnuts.net/2013/04/11/tactical-vs-competition-theres-no-controversy/

He deliberately doesn't allow any objective skills testing in his classes and won't use timers and such for measurement of improvement (so none of his students know if they can meet even basic shooting standards, and certainly can't tell if they are actually improving), and actively says that competition shooting "will get you killed."

Amazing how many people disagree.  Like Bob Vogel (cop and USPSA Grandmaster), Ted Puente (cop and USPSA Grandmaster, well known for Multigun championships), and JJ Racaza (homeland security officer and USPSA/SCSA Grandmaster). 

Competition shooting won't teach you self-defense tactics.  It will, however, give you important feedback about your shooting skills.
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Offline kurtbec

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Re: Homage to a Competition Shooter from a SOCOM operator.
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2013, 02:49:52 PM »
I agree with SeanN.  Competition shooting is fun!  It also gets me to the range more often to practice skills.  We are lucky enough to have a monthly USPSA match (among others such as Multigun, Steel Challenge, Pro-Am, etc.).  In Lincoln we also have a bi-monthly IDPA league as well as weekly practical shooting.  If I didn't compete, would I go to the range to practice my skills?...not very often.  Have I ever been in a situation on the street?  Nope, not even close, and hope that day never comes.  But I am more confident in my ability because of my training in direct correlation with my competition.  Yes competition shooting is stressful, when that beeper goes off everything you planned for can go awry on any misstep, fumbled reload, etc.   

Offline bkoenig

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Re: Homage to a Competition Shooter from a SOCOM operator.
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2013, 04:02:31 PM »
Another thing to note:  shooting skills are perishable.  I was never a great multigun competitor, but I used to at least place in the top 50% at local matches, with an occasional higher placing when everything came together.  Last year, however, I got really busy and didn't make it to a single match.  That was reflected in my performance in the one I shot last month.  I knew what I needed to do, but when the buzzer went off it all went out the window.  I didn't have the muscle memory anymore, and I had to spend so much time just thinking about what I was doing that I not only was a lot slower but I made a lot of mental mistakes.

Whether it's self defense training or competition, you need to keep at it until it's second nature, and then keep those skills sharp. 

Offline bullit

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Re: Homage to a Competition Shooter from a SOCOM operator.
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2013, 04:16:28 PM »
+1 JT.....from this month's American Handgunner.....

http://americanhandgunner.com/when-cops-compete/

And let us not forget Jerry Miculek who is just a tad faster than I with a revolver......
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 04:20:21 PM by bullit »

Offline JTH

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Re: Homage to a Competition Shooter from a SOCOM operator.
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2013, 04:36:30 PM »
And let us not forget Jerry Miculek who is just a tad faster than I with a revolver......

Jerry Miculek is an absolute freak of nature.  And apparently, has passed that genetic gift to his offspring.  (Lena is going to be SCARY good at multigun when she gets older.  And it isn't as if she is bad now!)

(I've shot with Jerry and Kay, and they are great people.  I don't know how he does it, but Jerry is nice and polite to every single wingnut fanboy that runs up to him to get a picture.)
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Offline SeanN

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Re: Homage to a Competition Shooter from a SOCOM operator.
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2013, 10:18:54 AM »
I don't know how he does it, but Jerry is nice and polite to every single wingnut fanboy that runs up to him to get a picture.

Some people are absolutely amazing at pulling this off and I have to respect them. Chris Costa was the same way when I got to meet him. Thousands of people coming up to him for pictures and he put on a genuine smile and enthusiastically shook hands with all of them throughout the day... Even though it was hotter than hell and sand was whipping around all over.

I couldn't do that.

I would love to meet the Miculeks sometime. Maybe if I get off my butt and go to some of the big matches. :P