Officers Take Fire

[Gary]

Hope both in the police car are doing well.  One lost a finger from gunfire. Dangerous job protecting and serving the public.  To all those that hold this position, we owe respect and gratitude.   I have been on ride-a-longs, with police officers in a major Nebraska town.  You feel pretty vulnerable sitting in the passenger seat, without all the safety gear officers wear, and no gun to help protect yourself. 

[wusker]

Wow, what a maniac I dont feel bad saying glad hes dead and they are alive. I totally agree Gary we owe those that serve to protect in any manner our respect.

[OnTheFly]

I'm not sure, but it sounded like the guy was yelling "Kill me!".  Might be a suicide by cop.

Fly

[GreyGeek]

My first thought was "Is that guy on, or has just gotten off of an SSRI?"

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/05/middlefield_police_release_vid.html

Stanko said police found eight, 40-round magazines for the AK-47 in Gilkerson's car along with a number of books and magazines about militias and terrorism.

The names of some of the literature were "Backyard Rocketry: Converting Model Rockets Into Explosive Missiles," "Advanced Close-range Gun Fighting," "Homemade Detonators: How To Make Them." Another described how to get rid of a dead body.

"He was a scumbag, and a terrorist, and he's dead," Stanko said.

With that much ammo available, for him to merely step out of the car fully exposed and begin shooting highly suggests it is a case of suicide by cop. 

Another story about the event
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/03/gunman_who_fired_at_middlefiel.html
gave the following account:

In the last moments of his life, James Gilkerson sprayed bullets from a semiautomatic rifle at two Middlefield police officers, a contrast to the man who cared for his ill mother, according to interviews and documents.

The female officer, who can be heard crying out during the shootout, is a brave lady to face an automatic rifle with a semi-auto pistol.

Thomas, 33, a former Woodmere officer, suffered serious injuries to her left hand. Shrapnel was embedded in her right wrist, and she suffered a gunshot wound to her left thigh, according to a police statement that did not name her.

She was listed in good condition Monday at MetroHealth Medical Center, where she had been flown by helicopter on Sunday, a spokeswoman said.

She lost a finger.  It looks like she took a round in that hand.  If she doesn't go back on duty one could fully understand and appreciate why.

James Gilkerson either did not know gun fight tactics or chose not to employ them.  Either way, it seems to me that suicide was his intended goal.  IF he had been a real terrorist both of those cops would be dead and we'd be reading about a nation-wide man-hunt similar to what happened in California earlier this year.

[unfy]

The names of some of the literature were "Backyard Rocketry: Converting Model Rockets Into Explosive Missiles," "Advanced Close-range Gun Fighting," "Homemade Detonators: How To Make Them." Another described how to get rid of a dead body.

"He was a scumbag, and a terrorist, and he's dead," Stanko said.

In the last moments of his life, James Gilkerson sprayed bullets from a semiautomatic rifle at two Middlefield police officers, a contrast to the man who cared for his ill mother, according to interviews and documents.

I'm sorry, but the reading materials listed don't make you a terrorist.  Nor does it imply intent.

The dead body thing seems out of place and weird.... but okay... that means you have ill intent heh.

Stanko needs to rethink his definitions of certain terms.

My first thought was "Is that guy on, or has just gotten off of an SSRI?"

Ya seem to knee jerk to this reason semi-frequently.  I honestly wouldn't .  Up to you though heh.  I prefer blaming the person rather than anything else.


I'm glad the LEO's survived the encounter with no loss of life on their part and only "minor" (used loosely) harm.  Loss of a finger aint minor, I know.. but... coulda been a lot worse.

I dunno if the guy was intending to get killed or just wacko or the adrenaline dump made him a complete screwball in his actions....

Either way, a sad event

[lneuke]

That guy could have been absolutely destroyed by the white car at 2:05...I know I would have nailed the accelerator if I had seen that happening. 

[rudy]

That guy could have been absolutely destroyed by the white car at 2:05...I know I would have nailed the accelerator if I had seen that happening. 

While at first glance, this seems like it might be feasible, driving into a shooting doesn't seem like a great idea.  Yea, you might take the guy out, but flying debris or the car could also injure the officers.  Also, what happens when the scumbag's family files a wrongful death suit?  Seems like a can of worms to me. 

[lneuke]

While at first glance, this seems like it might be feasible, driving into a shooting doesn't seem like a great idea.  Yea, you might take the guy out, but flying debris or the car could also injure the officers.  Also, what happens when the scumbag's family files a wrongful death suit?  Seems like a can of worms to me. 

I think it would be well worth the risk in this case, probably even less risky than pulling a firearm.  Although the officers weren't killed in this shootout they very easily could have been, and maybe driving into the suspect would have been the best way to end it quickly. 

Also, a wrongful death suit?  For killing someone in an active shootout with police?  I don't think I'd be very afraid of that...

[GreyGeek]

Ya seem to knee jerk to this reason semi-frequently.  I honestly wouldn't .

Well, first it's not a "knee jerk reaction" and if you don't have an advanced degree in biochemistry then you shouldn't.

But, at the layman's level, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_serotonin_reuptake_inhibitor#Adverse_effects
the Wikipedia give many side effects to SSRI's.  The ones of interest to our discussion include

extremely vivid or strange dreams
insomnia and/or changes in sleep
changes in sexual behaviour (see the next section)
increased feelings of depression and anxiety (which may sometimes provoke panic attacks)
mania
autonomic dysfunction including orthostatic hypotension (head rush)
akathisia
suicidal ideation (thoughts of suicide)
cognitive disorders

These affects are explained by a doctor:
http://beforeitsnews.com/health/2012/07/mass-murders-and-the-ssris-connection-2417899.html

This report on psychotic drugs and mass shootings was made BEFORE Sandy Hook:
http://www.cchrint.org/2012/07/20/the-aurora-colorado-tragedy-another-senseless-shooting-another-psychotropic-drug/

Fact: Despite 22 international drug regulatory warnings on psychiatric drugs citing effects of mania, hostility, violence and even homicidal ideation, and dozens of high profile shootings/killings tied to psychiatric drug use, there has yet to be a federal investigation on the link between psychiatric drugs and acts of senseless violence.

Fact: At least 31 school shootings and/or school-related acts of violence have been committed by those taking or withdrawing from psychiatric drugs resulting in 162 wounded and 72 killed (in other school shootings, information about their drug use was never made public—neither confirming or refuting if they were under the influence of prescribed drugs).

Fact: Between 2004 and 2011, there have been over 11,000 reports to the U.S. FDA’s MedWatch system of psychiatric drug side effects related to violence.  These include 300 cases of homicide, nearly 3,000 cases of mania and over 7,000 cases of aggression.  Note:  By the FDA’s own admission, only 1-10% of side effects are ever reported to the FDA, so the actual number of side effects occurring are most certainly higher.

Fact: It took months for  the release of information showing that police had found psychiatric drugs in the apartment of Aurora Colorado movie theater shooter, James Holmes—including the anti-anxiety drug clonazepam and the antidepressant sertraline, the generic version of the antidepressant Zoloft.

Police have yet to release information about the drugs the Sandy Hook shooter was on, but relatives state that he, too, was taking an SSRI.

Here's a list of school shootings where  the shooter took psychotropic drugs.
http://www.ssristories.com/index.php?p=school

This website is a collection of 4,800+ news stories with the full media article available, mainly criminal in nature, that have appeared in the media (newspapers, TV, scientific journals)  or that were part of FDA testimony in either 1991, 2004 or 2006, in which antidepressants are mentioned.

Still think I have a "knee jerk" reaction?