Starting Life as a Concealed Carrier

[patrickdm]

I recently received my CHP and started carrying.

This was a huge decision. I never envisioned carrying, never thought I would have a reason to. There is nothing in my life that would make me an attractive target, ie., gobs of money, drugs or anything else a "bad" guy would covet. Sadly today's "bad" guys don't seem to need a reason to attack. In some parts of our country it's a sport, like the knock out game. If any of you are unfamiliar with the knock out game just do a google.

I cannot say with any assurance yet that I have felt safer while carrying however I rarely find myself in circumstances that having a gun would be reassuring. I do find myself studying people just a tad harder than usual, not really sure of what I'm searching for though. Each day I've walked out of the house carrying I say a prayer that it never has to leave it's hiding place. 

No idea what the point of my post is, thinking aloud perhaps. Part of it may be to share a little with people who have come to the same decision.

Take care.

[SemperFiGuy]

patrickdm:

May You Never Draw Your Handgun in Fear nor Anger.

sfg

[patrickdm]

Thanks SemperFiGuy. I hope and pray the same for you and all of us.

[Hank]

Congratulations.
Hmmm, I understand what you are saying. One of the primary reasons for getting my CCW permit, was the simple fact that I was able to, and the more law abiding citizens that choose to the better IMO.

[Gary]

Every coin has two sides.  One side of this coin, may be the bad guys you talked about, but the other side of the coin, could be Law Enforcement Officers.   Now any contacts you make with an LEO, or EMT's, you need to show your ID, and your CHP ID.  You have multiplied the complexities of your life many fold.   You are more likely to encounter LOE's or EMT's than bad guys, for most of us I would think. 

While most all LEO's support the concept of the 2nd amendment, 14 LEO's have been shot and killed by licensed CHP holders  in the USA from May 2007 to date.    While 14 is not a high number (50,000 people die each year in traffic deaths in the USA) that number is 14 too high.

Every time a LEO pulls someone over for speeding, or an expired tag, he wonders if this will be the stop where his wife gets a visit from the Chief and the chaplain.

To ease the worries of any LEO that happens to pull you over.  Be polite.  Be courteous.  Have your dash lights on, dome lights on, key off, and on the dash, where he can reach them, as easily as you.  Have your windows open, so he can see all points into your vehicle.    Have your hands relaxed on the wheel, at 10 & 2.  Radio off.  Maintain eye contact.   ASAP, let the officer know you are a CHP holder and you have your handgun with you.  Listen to any question or instruction he may have, and make no sudden movements while you politely follow instructions.

Knowing all this, and knowing the odds of being robbed, car jacked, kidnapped, murdered are pretty slim, is it all worth it?  Did you get more rights picking up a CHP, or did you just become one of the sheep?  It would seem, the correct answer is a little bit of both.

Be careful, and remember, the NRA recommends you practice with your CC handgun at least once a month, and at least 100 rounds.  Dummy round, or empty chamber  exercises are also important.  Be safe.

The one thing that is more important than you carrying safely, is storing your gun and ammo safely, when you are not carrying.  It is far better to have one gun, and one gun safe, than two guns.   Tin the thickness of your car door, is not a safe.  Better than nothing, but not enough protection, that is really required to keep unauthorized people away from your guns.   

[dcjulie]

Congrats on getting your CCW.  It is an awesome responsibility, but it is also A Good Thing.  Having a gun on your person is a tool that can be used to defend yourself or others (if you choose to defend others).  It is not a talisman, a good luck charm, or a protective shield.  To the common person, you should not be identifiable as someone carrying a gun.  Concealed means concealed.  Getting used to carrying a hunk of metal (or plastic ) takes time.  It is not comfortable for most to carry at first, but it can become routine.  If you feel as if you are going to be conspicuous, practice with it at home before you venture out into the public.  I would also highly suggest you put in a barrel blocker, use snap caps, or an empty magazine to practice drawing from your concealment holster - A LOT!  Shooting yourself as you draw the gun would not be a good thing. 

If you have questions, concerns, etc. regarding the lifestyle of carrying a concealed weapon, ask.  Many of us on the forum are happy to provide you with good and reliable advise.  This forum, however, like all media avenues, has good and not-so-good advice being posted on it - take everything you read with a grain of salt.  (unless its from me, then it's Gospel )

While I don't usually make "plugs" for our firearms classes, we do offer a Concealed Carry Lifestyle course that addresses many of the concerns people have regarding Concealed Carry.  We will hold another one of these classes in the fall.  http://precisionresponse.4t.com/CCW101.html

Welcome to the "club".  Be safe.


Gary - can you provide some information on the LEOs shot by CCW holders.  I was not aware of that information - thanks.

[bullit]

the NRA recommends you practice with your CC handgun at least once a month, and at least 100 rounds. 

While you are answering Julie's request, can you source the above statement, too?

[Sandhillian]

I'd like to clarify Gary's statement that:

Now any contacts you make with an LEO, or EMT's, you need to show your ID, and your CHP ID.

That statement isn't accurate.  First of all, it says "any contacts you make."  If you are making contact with a LEO or EMT, you don't have to let him/her know you are carrying a concealed handgun.  If a LEO is contacting you, you have to disclose only if the contact is for an "official purpose" or in the course of the LEO's "official duties".  For an EMT, you only need to disclose if he/she is providing you treatment as part of his/her official duties.

The law says: "contact with a peace officer means any time a peace officer personally stops, detains, questions, or addresses a permitholder for an official purpose or in the course of his or her official duties, and contact with emergency services personnel means any time emergency services personnel provide treatment to a permitholder in the course of their official duties."

[bullit]

 

For an EMT, you only need to disclose if he/she is providing you treatment as part of his/her official duties.

The law says: "contact with a peace officer means any time a peace officer personally stops, detains, questions, or addresses a permitholder for an official purpose or in the course of his or her official duties, and contact with emergency services personnel means any time emergency services personnel provide treatment to a permitholder in the course of their official duties."

Sandhillian your comment regarding "EMTs" is not quite correct...."official contact" means exactly that whether treatment is rendered or not.  Ref. statute below. 

019.02 A permit holder carrying a concealed handgun who is officially contacted by
any peace officer or emergency services personnel must immediately inform
the peace officer or emergency service personnel of the concealed handgun
unless physically unable to do so.

With regards to Gary's comment, the CHP and your ID only need to be presented "upon request".

[SeanN]

Glad you joined the "club."

As previously stated... The gun shouldn't be there to make you feel safe and you never want to do anything you wouldn't do unarmed with a gun. If you are feeling unsafe and feel the need to put your gun on because of it, I would recommend not doing what you are planning on or staying home.

We have to be even more wary of avoiding violent situations as people that carry guns on a daily basis.

Practice is always good. Just make sure you're practicing PROPERLY. Practicing improper or inefficient techniques simply makes them permanent. And it takes a LONG time to get rid of those bad habits (ask me how I know). I'd highly suggest taking some classes with any of the NFOA forum sponsors. I've taken classes with many of them and the instruction is excellent.

And I also hope you never need to draw your weapon to defend yourself or others.

[Sandhillian]

bullit,

What you are quoting is not a statute.  Based on the number, it looks like you are referencing the administrative rules and regulations promulgated by the State Patrol.

You are correct that "upon request" you must show your CHP and ID to a LEO or emergency services personnel.  However, if they don't request, my previous statement is accurate.  Absent a request to show your CHP and ID, you aren't required to inform a LEO or emergency services personnel that you are carrying unless it's for an official purpose or in the course of their official duties.  And, with regard to emergency services personnel, they have to be providing treatment to the permitholder in the course of their official duties, just like I said.

Take a look at the statute enacted by the Legislature, Neb. Rev. Stat. sec. 69-2440, particularly subsections (1), (2) and (4).

[bullit]

However, if they don't request, my previous statement is accurate.  Absent a request to show your CHP and ID, you aren't required to inform a LEO or emergency services personnel that you are carrying unless it's for an official purpose or in the course of their official duties. 

I was referring to Gary's comment on this fact....you and I are in agreement.

And, with regard to emergency services personnel, they have to be providing treatment to the permitholder in the course of their official duties, just like I said.

Subsection (4).

I stand corrected.....the second time I've been wrong about something in my lifetime....

[Gary]

Anyone can dance around the statutes about letting LEO's know you are a carrying CHP, and read into it as you wish, and comply with the statutes as you wish, but when contacted by a LOE, safe is better than sorry. 

Here is an example of a guy that informed the officer, but not as quickly as the officer wishes he had of.

I guess this would be an example of how not to go about informing a grumpy officer. 

When pulled over, my ID will be in my hands, on the wheel.  I will verbally offer it to the officer, without moving one iota.

[bullit]

Yes and this clown was justly fired ...and should have never been a LEO.

[Gary]

How many clowns does Grand Island have?  Omaha? Kearny? Humbolt? Ashland? Syracuse?  Geneva? Lincoln? Beatrice? York? McCook? Benkelman? Ainsworth?

We must hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst of you tube to pull us over. 

Do all your signal lights work?  Is your vehicle up to muster inspection wise?  Good tires, everything works?  Clean? Even a Husker sticker in the back window may trigger a traffic stop.

Then, how is your mood?  Just had an argument with someone at work?  Kids? 

If everything is not ideal, and that comes through in your contact with an LEO, how will that effect the outcome of you pronouncing you are a CHP and are carrying concealed?

Most officers are great people in a rough job.    Carrying a firearm on your person, just makes his day a little more complex, and possibly a little more stressful.  Try to understand all he wants to do is finish his shift without incident and go home in one piece. 

[Gary]

Here is the retired Sheriff from this town, getting to know a rookie fresh from the police academy.

If the retired Sheriff has this much trouble communicating to an LEO, what chance do we have?

Error - Getting out of vehicle

Error, - Not following orders to return to vehicle

Error - Getting stuff out of pockets when ordered to hold still.

Error - Resisting arrest

Any I missed?  Hitting the white line a couple times, does not show well. 

[unfy]

I was uncomfortable carrying for the first 3 months or so of Carry.

I was brought up with range safety and paper shooting lines of safety.

The thought of a fully loaded weapon on my hip with no external safety was just.... erf.

You'll eventually get used to the feeling -- to the point that if you're ever dressed and you don't feel the weight of the weapon & holster tugging on your body you'll feel very weird / naked.  A lot like those who wear watches and the band breaks ... thus they feel 'weird' in not wearing the watch for a day or two.

Tips:

a) be aware of your surroundings, sure this was prolly covered in your CHP class.  For me this took a while to get used to - I used to *ALWAYS* have earbuds playing some soft music.  Not anymore.  While I don't doubt I could be aware of things with the soft music (usually a smooth jazz for those curious) ... it's just a good idea to not have it

b) resist the urge to tap your weapon when you talk to someone or go through a doorway into a store etc. most people make a subconscious check of it's presence. 

c) it stays holstered unless you feel the need to pull it's trigger is immanent.

d) find a really good quality holster.  i've got a crossbreed with horse leather.  many folks will agree that they rock.  get something sturdy, ultra comfortable (or else ya won't wear it), and something that completely covers the trigger guard / area (safety reasons).

e) for my particular pistol in it's holster, i've found a 2 o'clock position with a heavy cant to be the most comfortable for me.  a 4 to 5 o'clock position with heavy cant also worked for me but was hard on my jeans.  the 2 o'clock *might* print a bit more... (right handed btw).

f) you're armed. you know you're armed. what are the odds that the other person you're talking to is armed ? Be polite and courteous to everyone if you're not already that way.  Sir, Ma'am, the whole nine yards. A polite and friendly attitude goes a long way for staying out of a nasty situation.... doesn't matter if the other guy is armed or not... there IS a gun in EVERY situation YOU will be in.

g) practice your draw with an unloaded weapon at home.  practice your draw with a live weapon at the range. practice! practice! practice!

h) your weapon is only there to keep you alive if you're in immediate bodily danger, not to try to de-escalate a screaming match.


*) NE state law is clear about interaction with peace officers. You walk up to an officer to report something - declare yourself (it's official contact... i don't care if you initiated it damnit...). You're in the passenger seat and buddy gets pulled over for not using his turn signal - declare yourself.  LEO is checking out an alarm in your office complex, declare yourself.

Talking about the weather, sports, and completely random stuff ? Don't worry about declaring yourself.

LEO aren't the bad guys.  Telling them that you're armed usually also makes things slightly less stressful from what I can tell (not a LEO, so dunno?).  They appreciate being told and usually take such a thing as a sign that you're not gonna be a total dick to them. Also, find something to do with your hands to keep them in front of you and away from your weapon (something odd for me, i'm a thumbs-in-pockets kinda guy).

There are some bad videos and bad stories about encounters with LEO while concealed carry.  Those are unfortunate and are a MINORITY.

There are several videos of LEO using excessive force on random folks.  Again, it's a minority.  Why these particular LEO don't get the full force of the law brought down on them is beyond me... but that's a side rant.

Treat the LEO with respect (has this particular LEO done anything bad to you to warrant otherwise??).

Get to the point where you find yourself being arrested ? Resisting even an illegal arrest is illegal in NE.  Which is odd, SCOTUS says differently ... but... whatever. 

Is a shot LEO, yourself being shot, or those around you being shot (if you happen to be in NYC or LA )... and the mountains of paperwork and legal fees worth the hassle of how an unfriendly contact with LEO will turn out ?  Be polite and take judicial routes after the fact.

[SemperFiGuy]

Well............

After viewing this video, these thoughts come to mind:

A 29-year veteran of a county sheriff's police force should certainly know well enough to..........

1)   Stay in the vehicle when stopped by an LEO.   [At a road stop, LEOs are most often shot by a perp busting out of the door, walking back to the police car, and shooting the cop through the car window.]

2)   Keep hands in sight and NEVER reach for anything [including documents] that is stored in pockets or on person.

3)   Say, "I'm a Retired County Police Officer" clearly, audibly, and repeatedly in the hope of obtaining some level of professional courtesy and perhaps taking some of the edge out of the situation.

4)   Avoid physical resistance to arrest, especially after his behavior triggered several of the LEOs Uh-oh buttons.

Sympathy for the Stop-ee is surely in order, but.....he certainly added some culpability in this situation as well with his aggravating behaviors.

Hope the ice cream in back of his SUV didn't melt.

sfg
And AMEN to these points from unfy:

NE state law is clear about interaction with peace officers. You walk up to an officer to report something - declare yourself (it's official contact... i don't care if you initiated it damnit...). You're in the passenger seat and buddy gets pulled over for not using his turn signal - declare yourself.

[CitizenClark]

.

[SemperFiGuy]

you are blaming the victim.

Classic Liberal-Speak

Yes, indeed...if reasons clearly exist for the Victim being the Victim.

sfg