Exploding targets

[ProtoPatriot]

Anyone know a local place to get tannerite?

Or better yet, get the ingredients? I'm hoping it will be cheaper to make it myself, not to mention more fun and customizable targets.

[paulbow]

Scheels sells it.  Cabelas at one point and may still sell star (different brand same thing) targets.

[ProtoPatriot]

Yeah, I should have said besides Cabelas...as yes they do have them and I can get i at a discount there...but I was wanting to compare prices.

I am also really interested in ingredients to see if it is worth while to make it myself or purchase premade.

[sidearm1]

Just be careful that you don't run into problems with manufacturing an explosive device.  130 milligrams or more will get you into potential felony problems. (28-1213)  If not properly licensed, buying approved pre-manufactured material is the way to go.

[GreyGeek]

Or better yet, get the ingredients? I'm hoping it will be cheaper to make it myself, not to mention more fun and customizable targets.

It's cheaper to make it your self.  The  forumla is 95% powdered Ammonium Nitrate with 5% powdered Aluminium.    The components have to be mixed on site.  It is illegal in Nebraska to transport them already mixed.   You can get the makings from Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=a9_sc_1?rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aammonium+nitrate&keywords=ammonium+nitrate&ie=UTF8&qid=1373462754

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_11?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=powdered+aluminum&sprefix=powdered+al%2Caps%2C168&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Apowdered+aluminum

[RobertH]

the "recipes" can be found online on various sites.  every time i used an exploding target i got a fire, so i pretty much stopped using them.  and follow the rules (transporting, etc), its not worth getting busted over.

[ProtoPatriot]

Well, I was looking more locally, get tired of mail order so much...not to mention trying to return to a more cash based life and strip plastic out.

Also would like to support a small local company rather than a large company.


As for getting fires when using tannerite...well yeah, of course, it's an explosion, that will always be a risk/possibility to occur with any explosion...always have a fire extinguisher and even more so try to use it near water.

[Chris C]

Just be careful that you don't run into problems with manufacturing an explosive device.  130 milligrams or more will get you into potential felony problems. (28-1213)  If not properly licensed, buying approved pre-manufactured material is the way to go.

Are you sure it's milligrams?  Doing an online conversion 130 milligrams converts to 0.000286601 pounds which pounds is what some of the tannerite is sold in.  But the pre-manufactured stuff is ok even though it's more than the 130 milligrams?

[GreyGeek]

Are you sure it's milligrams?  Doing an online conversion 130 milligrams converts to 0.000286601 pounds

Sidearm1 is correct.    And, I might add, Tannerite is powerful.  Although it has only half the Relative Effectiveness of TNT, one would be foolish to treat it like a 4th  of July firecracker.  A pound of it would create a shock wave that could be dangerous within 10 to 15 feet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_effectiveness_factor

[ProtoPatriot]

Yes, powerful and fun as hell...hence why I want to find a cheaper way to do it.

Tannerite is weak compared to some of the stuff I have played with in the past.

And what is with everyone always focusing on how dangerous something can be? The most important things anyone will ever do in their lives are dangerous and they are often the most difficult (not that this is important, but it sure is fun). Things that are truly worthwhile are simply dangerous and never easy.

Danger just means so little.

There are way too many safety nets....most need to be eliminated (specifically anything government ran).

[CitizenClark]

Are you sure it's milligrams?

He gave you the statutory citation, but here is the link so you can just click through and see for yourself: http://nebraskalegislature.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=28-1213

[GreyGeek]

And what is with everyone always focusing on how dangerous something can be?

Because most people want to see tomorrow,  not sleep in a grave.

In 1970 I was the faculty sponsor of a college fraternity where I taught Physics.   The frats had gotten together to do a campus project of removing a dozen tree stumps to make the grounds more beautiful.  I watched as they tried to use shovels to dig  the dirt but were stopped by the roots.  They tried to use axes to cut the roots but the dirt dulled them too quickly to be affective.  So, I drove to Council Bluffs, to a construction firm, and with  my credit card as my only ID, I purchased 50 sticks (a box, or "brick" ) of dynamite which had 40% Ammonium Nitrate to moderate.   With a post  hole digger I had the boys dig a tunnel about 4 feet down next to the base of the root.  I put in 3 to 5 sticks, based on the size of stump, into each hole, packed it with mud, and reeled out the wire to about 150 feet away, where my car was with the hood up.    In 11 of the 12 stumps there was a muffled "thump" and the stump lifted up out of the ground about 5 feet and fell back to earth about 5 feet away, next to the hole.  The frat boys would take the dirt from some pickup trucks to fill the hole and haul the stump off.   

On the last stump, the biggest by far, about 3 feet in diameter, I decided that I'd make the cavity of the bottom of the hole a little bigger so that in addition to the 5 sticks of dynamite I could add a 1 lb bottle of Picric Acid that had a pre 1900 date on it, and a couple bottles of mono and di-nitro compounds that were equally unstable due to age.  They had been in the chem lab stockroom for all  that time and were,  IMO, too unstable for student assistants to handle, or for me as far as that matters.    For this stump I backed people beyond 300 feet and I sent people to the intersections 600 feet away to block traffic.    I carefully carried the bottles from the lab and gently put them into the hole, followed by 5 sticks of dynamite.   When the blast went off there was a tremendous noise and moderate shock wave, most of the shock wave going straight up.   I noticed that 2/3rds of the stump came back down, about 10 feet way.   The smaller  piece sailed through the air in a perfect parabola and landed in the street intersection 600 feet away, about 15 feet from where my watchers were standing!   It took several boys to lift it into the pickup truck.  The Picric Acid and Nito compounds added an unexpected violence to the explosion. 

I kept that lesson  in mind later when I was using dynamite taken from 5 lb  plastic tubes of 90% Nitroglycerine dynamite, and when I used Potassium Perchlorate and table sugar to split huge logs too big to fit in a power wedge.   No matter how much experience you have you can't depend on mother nature to behave the same way every time.

[sidearm1]

Always treat explosives with respect.  While the danger makes the heart beat faster, one misstake and the tragic stuff happens.  Respond to a call where person playing with fireworks is injured.  Arrive on scene and find out that they took railroad fuse (the things that make a warning pop when a train runs over them before a work crew location) and put them in a pipe and tried to pack more in.  they exploded and he did not have fingers.  Don't forget the guys by Hastings that are facing explosive charges for their tannerite fun.

I am not against having fun, when I was an instructor for the University Fire Training division it was fun to make all sorts of things that would burn or pop.  (Lt. Kluge of the Penn. State Troopers - my instructor stated that you could not know how things work, if you did not see them work).  Just be careful and stay within the law.

[Chris C]

He gave you the statutory citation, but here is the link so you can just click through and see for yourself: http://nebraskalegislature.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=28-1213

I see that but that makes the pre packaged tannerite containers they sell at Cabelas, Scheels, ect illegal to actually use...  So I guess if it’s illegal to use why is it being sold?  Kind of like pipes are legal until you smoke weed or crack out of them then they become paraphernalia? 

[ProtoPatriot]

Always treat explosives with respect.

That should be the case for anything and everything...not just explosives or things perceived as "dangerous". I'm not saying ignore the dangers, but don't focus on them so much. With anything and everything it is the responsibility of the individual to do their due diligence and know what they are doing or voluntarily seek the information or training to become knowledgeable...but it shouldn't be mandated by law or anything.

That guy that blew his figures off... oh well, that is his problem alone, he failed to do is due diligence and know what he is doing. That should have no impact on what I do or anyone else does (besides it provides more knowledge for others, but nothing legally speaking). People goofing off and getting hurt is their problem, it should have no impact legally on anyone else, especially when they had no involvement. The same thing applies to things like: failure to prepare for the weather (i.e. Katrina and Sandy), seat belts, driving fast, gun laws, etc.

All this preventative crap just needs to stop...it is the individuals responsibility and it must stay with the individual.

[ProtoPatriot]

I see that but that makes the pre packaged tannerite containers they sell at Cabelas, Scheels, ect illegal to actually use...  So I guess if it’s illegal to use why is it being sold?  Kind of like pipes are legal until you smoke weed or crack out of them then they become paraphernalia?

The tannerite you buy at the store is not a complete until mixed (so really, it's not tannerite yet), you are not buying an explosive directly...you are buying the components pre-measured out.

Only when mixed does it become an explosive and only then does it fall under that statute.

[ProtoPatriot]

Because most people want to see tomorrow,  not sleep in a grave.

In 1970 I was the faculty sponsor of a college fraternity where I taught Physics.   The frats had gotten together to do a campus project of removing a dozen tree stumps to make the grounds more beautiful.  I watched as they tried to use shovels to dig  the dirt but were stopped by the roots.  They tried to use axes to cut the roots but the dirt dulled them too quickly to be affective.  So, I drove to Council Bluffs, to a construction firm, and with  my credit card as my only ID, I purchased 50 sticks (a box, or "brick" ) of dynamite which had 40% Ammonium Nitrate to moderate.   With a post  hole digger I had the boys dig a tunnel about 4 feet down next to the base of the root.  I put in 3 to 5 sticks, based on the size of stump, into each hole, packed it with mud, and reeled out the wire to about 150 feet away, where my car was with the hood up.    In 11 of the 12 stumps there was a muffled "thump" and the stump lifted up out of the ground about 5 feet and fell back to earth about 5 feet away, next to the hole.  The frat boys would take the dirt from some pickup trucks to fill the hole and haul the stump off.   

On the last stump, the biggest by far, about 3 feet in diameter, I decided that I'd make the cavity of the bottom of the hole a little bigger so that in addition to the 5 sticks of dynamite I could add a 1 lb bottle of Picric Acid that had a pre 1900 date on it, and a couple bottles of mono and di-nitro compounds that were equally unstable due to age.  They had been in the chem lab stockroom for all  that time and were,  IMO, too unstable for student assistants to handle, or for me as far as that matters.    For this stump I backed people beyond 300 feet and I sent people to the intersections 600 feet away to block traffic.    I carefully carried the bottles from the lab and gently put them into the hole, followed by 5 sticks of dynamite.   When the blast went off there was a tremendous noise and moderate shock wave, most of the shock wave going straight up.   I noticed that 2/3rds of the stump came back down, about 10 feet way.   The smaller  piece sailed through the air in a perfect parabola and landed in the street intersection 600 feet away, about 15 feet from where my watchers were standing!   It took several boys to lift it into the pickup truck.  The Picric Acid and Nito compounds added an unexpected violence to the explosion. 

I kept that lesson  in mind later when I was using dynamite taken from 5 lb  plastic tubes of 90% Nitroglycerine dynamite, and when I used Potassium Perchlorate and table sugar to split huge logs too big to fit in a power wedge.   No matter how much experience you have you can't depend on mother nature to behave the same way every time.

That's not what I was meaning. See my previous post.

We focus on the dangers of something so much and we try to prevent things so much that we stop allowing life to take it's course. Focusing on the dangers so much prevents us from seeing what else is going on. I never said precautions shouldn't be taken, just that they should be on the individuals directly involved.

For instance, if I'm blowing something up on my own private property, it is up to me alone to ensure that I don't use more than the area I am using can handle without damaging or harming another person or their property. That the law has no place. That it is my responsibility and I have to deal with whatever happens (however, I am not responsible for those there with me or their property to spectate/participate, they are responsible for themselves and their property, and it is their choice to be there. They also have the choice to take cover further back or leave completely).

If done on public land (such as a WMA), then it is my responsibility to warn other people around (but that is not taking responsibility for them, that is just providing information so they can make their own informed choice) and being that it is public land, little to no damage to the area should occur (basically, tannerite would not work out on public land as understandably so).

[Chris C]

The tannerite you buy at the store is not a complete until mixed (so really, it's not tannerite yet), you are not buying an explosive directly...you are buying the components pre-measured out.

Only when mixed does it become an explosive and only then does it fall under that statute.

Sure would be nice for the retailers to explain this.  Kind of misleading to the majority of people who buy it and have no idea they are committing a felony when they mix it and set it off.   I bought a small 1/2lb (it really is small) container at Cabelas awhile back but am leery of using it at the WMA I primarily shoot at because of the thread a few weeks back in Hastings.  Granted they were clearly using a lot more than a 1/2lb but still.  Will have to use it on private land. 

But to stay on topic when I found a recipe a long time back some of the stuff could be bought at Tractor Supply and the rest online.   

[ProtoPatriot]

Sure would be nice for the retailers to explain this.  Kind of misleading to the majority of people who buy it and have no idea they are committing a felony when they mix it and set it off.   I bought a small 1/2lb (it really is small) container at Cabelas awhile back but am leery of using it at the WMA I primarily shoot at because of the thread a few weeks back in Hastings.  Granted they were clearly using a lot more than a 1/2lb but still.  Will have to use it on private land. 

But to stay on topic when I found a recipe a long time back some of the stuff could be bought at Tractor Supply and the rest online.   

It's only a crime to transport it.

It is not a crime to own the components or mix them to create tannerite and use it, as long as they are used at the location they are mixed.

Transporting the mixed compound without the stupid permit is what they made the felony.

As I said earlier, I would avoid using it at a WMA without some verifiable permission from game and parks. The reason is the "leave no trace" principle. When using such places as a WMA, no one should really leave any major trace they were there. Well, things like tannerite would leave a pretty noticeable trace, unless of course you only use a small amount, say like a film canister (which is what I would do to extend my enjoyment of the tannerite, especially on a public land). Private property though...have at it.

[ProtoPatriot]

Tannerite is not quite classified as an explosive by the ATF (it's under binary explosive, as they separate it down to), they classify it the same as black powder once the two components are mixed up to create tannerite.

There is an exception for tannerite, just the same as black powder. You can store, mix, and detonate for personal recreational use. But it is limited to 20 pounds. Nebraska follows the suit with this. Other wise, black powder would not be allowed and the rifles would be useless (FYI: there is no permit of any kind, no background check, etc. for a black powder pistol/rifle...it's a pick up and purchase, no paperwork of any kind...same for all the components like black powder, primers, black powder balls, etc.).

"Storage regulations do not apply to binary explosives until they are mixed."
"Persons manufacturing explosives for their own personal, non-business use only (e.g., personal target practice) are not required to have a Federal explosives license or permit."

https://www.atf.gov/explosives/how-to/binary-explosives.html

"...will not apply to..."
"The storage or possession of or dealing in black powder used for recreation purposes by a sportsperson"
http://www.nebraskalegislature.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=28-1239

This is the series of laws applicable here. It is large and can be confusing. Their are many repeals in there as well.
http://www.nebraskalegislature.gov/laws/browse-chapters.php?chapter=28

Now don't get confused with the news, as we all know they only tell as much to push their agenda and then twist the rest. There was a couple of guys that got cited/arrested for exploding 50 pounds without a permit (that incident out in kearney), obviously well over the amount the exception allows.

Also, if tannerite was classified as an explosive, places like Cabelas would not be able to sell it. Only a few of the Cabelas have the FEL (same as FFL, only for explosives though) and the LaVista store is not one of them, but they have tannerite and black powder.