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Starting a new argument! Timers, Competition, and Cover...
Lorimor:
Heheheheh.... Thomas you have just walked right into my carefully laid trap. heheheheheh I've been waiting for you to blog. heheheheheheh
Good thread. Great thread.
I see nothing wrong with shooting competition. STRESS INOCULATION! It helps hone skills under stress. It's a tool to help measure progress.
It doesn't however, develop and maintain skills such as one hand/weak hand malfunction clearing (from what I've seen anyway.) I don't believe it instills the mindset, the situational awareness, the "stay in the fight" attitude, the willingness/ability to overcome the urge to freeze and internally scream, "OMG! This isn't happening to me!" and become a victim.
We all need to improve/practice our trigger manipulation, freestyle, SHO and WHO. We all need to perfect our reloads. We all need to improve our drawstroke (and subsequently, holstering back up WITHOUT looking and using our off hand to aid in holstering.) Competition is of value here. Competition and defensive shooting intersect in these areas.
Personally, the one time I shot USPSA, I did it "tactically." I didn't stand full value stupid in the middle of the doorway and blaze away. I backed away from the door I had just opened. I pie'ed the corners. That was my choice. I consider that kind of thing "practice." Costs time and some competitor types I'm sure ridicule that approach. (I see the phrase "Tactical Timmy" used on the 'net.) :)
Cost me time but considering how slow I shot (and still shoot), it wasn't really a difference maker.
I am looking for improvement. Winning would be great, but it's secondary to improving skills, in my world.
Competition is great as long as you have a good time, no matter how you approach it AND do it safely. But it's not true defensive training IMHO. :)
Any trigger time is better than no trigger time.
I'm not sure I'm conveying the message I'd like to here and I feel it's a might incoherent. Maybe I can coalesce my thoughts later and express them better down the road.
PS Thanks to the training I've received over the years, I know it's prudent and entirely reasonable to instantly ramp all the way up to Condition Orange whenever I know I'm in the same zip code as Zebra. It's okay to treat a threat as a threat. :)
JTH:
--- Quote from: Lorimor on August 26, 2013, 08:20:56 PM ---Heheheheh.... Thomas you have just walked right into my carefully laid trap. heheheheheh I've been waiting for you to blog. heheheheheheh
--- End quote ---
Uh-oh...
{snip}
--- Quote ---It doesn't however, develop and maintain skills such as one hand/weak hand malfunction clearing (from what I've seen anyway.) I don't believe it instills the mindset, the situational awareness, the "stay in the fight" attitude, the willingness/ability to overcome the urge to freeze and internally scream, "OMG! This isn't happening to me!" and become a victim.
--- End quote ---
Agreed. As I said on the blog:
"This isn’t to say that I think that either combat skills or competition skills (or a combination thereof) actually cover the full range of specific skills most important to citizen self-defense—I don’t. There is, however, overlap in both cases. (In a later post I’ll talk about what self-defense skills are lacking in both the combat skillset and the competition skillset.)"
...thanks for giving me a starting point when I get around to that post. Ha, you've fallen into MY trap!
--- Quote ---Personally, the one time I shot USPSA, I did it "tactically." I didn't stand full value stupid in the middle of the doorway and blaze away. I backed away from the door I had just opened. I pie'ed the corners. That was my choice. I consider that kind of thing "practice." Costs time and some competitor types I'm sure ridicule that approach. (I see the phrase "Tactical Timmy" used on the 'net.) :)
--- End quote ---
Actually, the Tactical Timmy label is used for those folks who use phrases and terms like "big boy rules," "dynamic critical incident," and "contact!" but can't actually shoot worth a darn, yet still think that their terminology makes them experts on self-defense. (They also tend to wear LOTS of tac gear, even when the class or circumstances don't require it at all.)
I can think of plenty of people who have lots of tactical knowledge that wouldn't be called "Timmys". (Kyle Defoors, Frank Proctor, and Pat Mac, to name a few.) But that is because they spend the time in practice to actually 1) shoot well, 2) make intelligent tactical choices based on reality, and 3) articulate the specific logical reasons why they make the choices they do.
This makes them significantly different than, for example, the HammerFour folks.
Or these idiots:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4RImcB4h9k#at=47
Or these guys:
(And that video, while someone ELSE turned it into a joke with the music, was originally a promo video for that shooting school---they actually thought that was a good advertisement for what they taught to citizens.)
--- Quote ---I am looking for improvement. Winning would be great, but it's secondary to improving skills, in my world.
--- End quote ---
Agreed. Like I said on the blog, though, (I replied to your comment! So there!) I think you would be better served to practice defensive skills in a different venue, as you'll get a greater return on your time. Competitions aren't practice---they are tests. You can use them for practice---but you won't get very good practice out of them. (No feedback, no analysis, no chance to get better, etc...)
--- Quote ---Competition is great as long as you have a good time, no matter how you approach it AND do it safely. But it's not true defensive training IMHO. :)
--- End quote ---
Agreed. But since it isn't supposed to be, I think that's just fine. :)
--- Quote ---Any trigger time is better than no trigger time.
I'm not sure I'm conveying the message I'd like to here and I feel it's a might incoherent. Maybe I can coalesce my thoughts later and express them better down the road.
--- End quote ---
It's okay. We're here all week. Be sure to tip your waitress!
--- Quote ---PS Thanks to the training I've received over the years, I know it's prudent and entirely reasonable to instantly ramp all the way up to Condition Orange whenever I know I'm in the same zip code as Zebra. It's okay to treat a threat as a threat.
--- End quote ---
Orange? I'm thinking Condition Terror, with a side of RUN!
wallace11bravo:
I got Part V up now, which includes a conclusion of sorts. This one took me a while as I kinda started out going in all different directions. I whittled it down to something more manageable to hit up a few key points that really all stem back to situational awareness and decision making.
http://www.mwts-training.com/blog
JTH:
--- Quote from: wallace11bravo on August 26, 2013, 10:15:12 PM ---I got Part V up now, which includes a conclusion of sorts.
--- End quote ---
Hey, wait! I haven't commented on 1, 2, and 4 yet! Let me catch up!
(No, I'm not going to comment on each one. I will be blogging about part 1, though, because I have some range stories that I have to tell---in the hope that people will STOP DOING STUPID THINGS.)
wallace11bravo:
--- Quote from: jthhapkido on August 26, 2013, 03:57:39 PM ---...I'll be interested to read it when you do. I personally would agree that the change in weapon (from what is effectively a defensive weapon to an offensive weapon) effectively means that a significant change in effective rules of engagement (due to the situation) has occurred---which means that I would expect that the mindset really should go from "defense/LEO" to "combat/threat interdiction"---and thus that thinking of it in terms of "defense" similar to citizen self-defense is actually detrimental to LEO health, as they won't necessarily make the correct choices.
I may be wrong about that, of course. Hm. I may need to think about that more.
--- End quote ---
I'll probably have a blog post about it in the future, but it will probably end up being a long one.
I'm also currently working on turning my SUIT smartbook into more of an independent textbook (partially at the request of the 91st TD who I'm sure will copy/paste everything, put their insignia on it, and give precisely zero credit to me as they distribute it all over the place) That, and college, will eat up a decent amount of my writing energy for a few months.
One of the things covered in there is how to recognize different environment types and differences in posturing, movement, etc, at the individual and unit level, between them.
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