NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
Ammunition & Hand Loading => Cartridge and Shotshell reloading => Topic started by: kozball on December 11, 2011, 04:31:25 PM
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Thinking about purchasing a reloading press to load about 2000 rds per year. Will be mostly 40sw and 9mm and could maybe get to some
223rem. Have been reading about the Hornady Lock n Load AP and the Dillon 550. I realize that 2000 rds is not alot per year, but for a few more $$ could get a progresive instead of a single. Less time loading= more time shooting.
What do you all use? Any problems with equipment or service?
Thanks in advance. Koz
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I use the Hornady LNL and love it. I had one issue and that just took a phone call. Spare parts in the mail the next day. I am not to excited with Hornady's full length sizing dies in 223 and 308. Got some Reddings instead. Pistol Dies from Hornady are just fine. One of the things i did to increase reliability is polishing the bottom part of the primer feed thingy.
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I reload with a old RCBS Rock Chucker. Bought everything I needed between sites like this, craigslist, and ebay. For me a single stage press is the way to go though I have been admiring some progressive presses but it will probably be til I find a good used deal somewhere. When I have time, in the winter months mostly, I go do a little reloading and by the time spring rolls around I have plenty to blast off. Also have a Dillon SL900 12 ga shotgun reloading press and a vintage Polar Bair 600 12 ga. My reloading room is getting full so I'll probably have to sell one of them. But as far as customer service, RCBS and Dillon are second to none. Both my presses were purchased used and I have called both company's to replace parts and they send them at no cost-no questions asked.
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I've got a Hornady LNL AP progressive.
Love it.
There have been a few tiny caveats here or there that are prolly just my machine specific... but... I've put thousands of brass through it with no problems.
Hornady has also been a pleasure to deal with, and they're from NE! :)
Dies are fairly interchangeable, a carbide / tungsten die set that doesn't need lube is suggested for pistol to make matters simpler.
Get a hornady powder cop die, for sure. Safety first, an extra visual reminder of not loading a powderless case is always a good thing.
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The turret presses are progressive in that it rotates the dies to feed into the brass. Cheap and supposed to be easy / reliable. No personal experience with them.
Not as fast as a plate full of brass spinning.
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The hornady has 5 die positions, which is handy compared to a 4 station setup.
After powder throw stuff is calibrated, I produce about 100 40s&w in about 20min.
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Required extras:
Powder scale (a $25 cheapy electric by mec is fine).
Calipers (digital or dial is your choice, make sure you can do .0001 of an inch or finer)
Bullet puller of some kind (either kinetic hammer thing or a die that goes in press)
Primer flip tray ($3, save your sanity)
Reloading manual(s) ($15-$25). Something current to start with is good (speer / hornady). Collecting more as you go isn't a bad idea either if ya find'em cheap.
Ammo storage boxes. Plastic things are $2-$4 a piece. Midway USA has cardboard box + styrofoam things cheap bulk.
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Suggeted:
Tumbler or sonic cleaner. I've got a vibrating bowl tumbler, does nicely. Sonic ones seem to have decent reviews online but dunno how long they live for. Cabella's has vibrator + media separator for not too much usually. If you get a vibrator you'll need vibrating material as well ($15-$20). You *can* just wash your brass in really hot soapy water, but a dedicated solution is handy.
Down the line you'll prolly pick up primer pocket cleaners / reamers, deburring / dechamfering tool, flash hole reamer. All are $5-$8 a piece, lyman might sell an all in one kit.
I recently just picked up a Foster case trimmer. Love it. Doing a fresh run of 41mag for my dad and factory brass tends to be a bit long / needs trimming. I've not checked my 40s&w brass to see if it needs to be trimmed just yet... haven't had any feed / gun issues yet. I'll prolly sit down one day and check / trim tho. It's a higher pressure round so it might flow the brass more.
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Btw, if you were the gentlemen at Guns Unlimited, hi! :D
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Edit: i've not tried rifle rounds on the LNL AP yet. Will eventually be doing 3030 in it.
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Oh.
Other requirement with the Hornady press -- and possibly other presses...
Hornady One-Shot dry lube stuff.
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I use the Hornady LNL and love it. I had one issue and that just took a phone call. Spare parts in the mail the next day. I am not to excited with Hornady's full length sizing dies in 223 and 308. Got some Reddings instead. Pistol Dies from Hornady are just fine. One of the things i did to increase reliability is polishing the bottom part of the primer feed thingy.
Primer feed slides are a bit annoying, and also had to adjust the plastic primer guide thing a bit further out for it to always grab a primer (just a screw driver).
For me, my press was also not indexing correctly, so i had to adjust the paws a bit.
My last issue with my press from time to time is that primers don't seem to seat all the way. Could be how I have the press mounted and use it (sitting down, typically at an angle). I found a thin metal washer under the primer seating nub fixes my problems. Note: doing large pistol primers, i've not had this problem.
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Bought a Lee Challenger Breech Lock and love it! The breech lock bushings help interchange dies in no time and keep them adjusted to where you set them. One night a friend joined me and we made about 800 .223 in 4 or 5 hours (he would full length size and give to me to chamfer/deburr new LC brass and then prime using a Lee hand held primer and then when that was done I filled with powder and he seated bullet). For the money there is nothing I feel that comes close to it. Every time I buy news dies I buy some Lee Breech Lock Quick Change Bushings with Die Lock Ring built in and allows Lee dies to be locked solidly in place with the ease of changing regular quick change bushings have. And for a dispenser/scale I feel my RCBS Chargemaster 1500 Dispenser/Scale combo is irreplaceable. Not as fast as a regular dispenser but at least I know for sure how much powder I am putting in each case. If you only plan on doing a couple thousand rounds a year then I would pick a single stage press, fewer problems to encounter compared to a turret/progressive. Personally I find reloading as/more fun than shooting, great sense of accomplishment knowing you just made your own high quality ammo, so slower single stage presses give me an excuse to spend more time doing what I love. If you have any more questions PM me and I would be glad to help!
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There are a few schools of thought about presses.
I have 3 different systems depending on the type of ammo
12 gauge is loaded on a 7 station progressive Hornady 366 Auto. No cleaning, just a case inspection, fill the shot and powder hoppers, set the lead charge, test for powder weight, load the primer tube and go
I load pistol rounds on a Dillon Square Deal - also a progressive, with 4 stations.
Just clean the brass, set the powder charge weight, fill the primer tube and go
But I reload .223 the old fashioned way. I don't think that accurate rifle ammo lends itself to progressive press operations.
All brass prep operation are done separately in batches.
For one I clean the brass , then deprime in a separate operation because I load a lot of crimped primer military cases. Crimped cases need to have the crimp ring removed the first time they are loaded
I then lube the case, full length resize with Redding dies, trim to length with a Possum Hollow trimmer run by a drill, chamfer the case mouth, then clean it again to remove the sizing lube
Lee hand priming tool assures that primer seating is firm and depth is OK
Powder charges are done in trays of 50 on a Redding powder measure, with a random check on a Balance beam scale
Sizing and bullet insertion are performed on a Lee Classic Cast 4 hole turret press.
I do not seat and crimp in one operation like the dies instructions indicate, but rather, crimping is done in a separate operation with a Lee Factory Crimp Die when desired.
The reasons I don't think a progressive is the best for rifle is the need confirm primer seating depth to avoid slam fires, and the need to clean the brass after full length resizing.
If not cleaned well, the powder sticks to the lube in the case neck.
I am not ever going to recommend Hornady One Shot as a lube. I use Imperial Case Wax. If you want to try a spray lube use Dillon or Frankford Arsenal brands
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Lees customer service is questionable ecspeacially when the 1 year warranty is up. Don't expect them to fix your problem without a cost to you. RCBS, Dillon, and I'm sure hornady (I don't actually own anything hornady) have lifetime warranties, no questions asked. And I agree bradkoll reloading is actually as enjoying if not more as shooting your own hand loads.
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Great post Dan, I can agree with the school of thought on much of that. With rifle reloading, I may pick up a cheap Lee single stage press or something, I dunno. Rock Chuckers are only $120 anyway. And rifle is all about exacting consistency and stuff.
I've got a Mec 600 or 650 jr shotshell reloader that I use for my own 3" 15 pellet shells. No problems with it, but not as fast as the autoloaders.
I am not ever going to recommend Hornady One Shot as a lube. I use Imperial Case Wax. If you want to try a spray lube use Dillon or Frankford Arsenal brands
Not suggested as bullet or case lube. More suggested for the press / dies itself :).
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Another thing a newbie wants to check out is how to remove a stuck .223 case from a die
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If a Rock Chucker, buy used! They still have a warranty.
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I've inherited my father's Lee press turret press and it still works fine after untold thousands of rounds of .38, 357, and 9mm through it. Is it a Cadillac? No, but it's a reliable old Chevy.
Like most people I would (am) doing a single-stage press for rifle. Rifle cartridges just have too much energy stored up to not be exceptionally diligent with the preparation.
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Wanna throw this out there.
My Hornady LNL AP with auto powder thing typically gets powder charges within +/- 0.1 grains. Have used Unique and Win296 in it (maybe Blue Dot as well). Soooo... I don't doubt that the quality volumetric powder throwers can be really consistent (how the plastic bushing lee thing works out i dunno).
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That said ... if you're wanting to produce match grade ammo, then lots of hand work and manual whatever probably isn't a bad idea. I've ran my LNL with a single die-at-a-time before for crimping some rounds. Soo... I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to get ultra consistent with a progressive if ya treat it like a single stage.
Going through 41mag.... trimming brass and then crimp seating bullets, I've found in 'mass production mode', it produces rounds that are virtually identical (can't tell two rounds apart).
But.... if you *are* producing match grade rifle ammo, you'll want to turn your necks, not full length size, and hand weigh all of your charges anyway. I don't see how a progressive press used as if it was single stage would matter much. The ram and plate base are just as solid, the dies don't move at all, etc. For the progressive presses that use die bushings, there might be some concern about a tiny bit of play from the bushings... but... they seem pretty darn solid in my press :).
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I would suggest a single stage press starting out ......YMMV.
I still use a single stage to do all my reloading ..... speaking of which, I need to get some rounds together for next monday .....later.
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Seems to me that you all seem to like what you have, and if there were any issues, you able to work thru them. Turning a short story into a long story, I want to reload for the knowlege and the challenge of it. I also have a 12yr old son that is showing some interest and hope to pass on what I can to him. I just started shooting some USPSA and such this year. I plan on doing a few matches per year to see if I can improve my skills. Being a 55yr old blind guy, I don't think that "Match Grade" falls into any category with my ability. The handgun loads would be close to "out of the box" type stuff. For bowling pins, I would need to explore some Chris Z type "special"loads. ;D Would like to do some 3-gun someday. That is where the 223 rem would be needed. But can't do 3-gun yet, as I don't have the grande huevos and my Ithica 37 blew up in my face.
Has anyone had anything that you didn't like and got rid of ?
Koz
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I have no idea of the quality of it.... but....
the lee 50th anniversary single stage kit comes with just about everything ya might need, and goes for $90-$120 ? i think ?
cabella's has them too.
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Equipment ya don't like ....
The Hornady 38 special / 357 mag / 357 max three die set is... a tad annoying. The bullet seater lacks any kind of crimp (not even taper). So if ya bell the case mouth too much, you have to crimp everything. I picked up a taper crimp die for cheap plated bullets and a roll / factory crimp die as well for the fancier bullets. $10-$15 for each type of crimp die. The Hornady dies not offering a crimp on seat in this particular set is REALLY annoying. Otherwise, they're fine dies. (Their 41mag dies do offer a roll crimp however).
The RCBS 40 s&w dies were almost too short for my press somehow. They feel more loose than the hornady ones as well (they are NOT loose though). I've produced thousands of rounds through them and they perform great though. They're precise and function wonderfully, they're just "weird" in how they sit in my press for some reason.
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I've got an electric caliper set. Batteries dying on those are really annoying. I'm real tempted to pick up an analog dial based one. If your eyes are troublesome, the digital might be a better idea though.
Some of the smaller hand tools (dechamfer/deburr, primer pocket etc) are.. a tad tedious. I think Lyman makes an easy to grip screwdriver sized all in one set thing that is probably a lot more ergonomic. I'll be picking up a powered case prep center when I get into rifle reloading... and will be using the hand tools as back up or whatever. But -- yeah -- get something more ergonomic than tiny little things.
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I've got a Mec 600 or 650 jr simple 12ga shotshell press that seems alright, but I've not done much with it. Then again, I don't load for trap / skeet.
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Unfy, I agree that using a press that has progressive capabilities in a manner similar to a single stage is a good choice.
When I think of progressive presses I am thinking auto advance- like my Square Deal or a Dillon 650
If you can disable the auto advance function, then it is no different than a single stage.
All the auto advance parts have been removed from my Lee turret
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If you can disable the auto advance function, then it is no different than a single stage.
On the Hornady LNL AP, you can prolly push the indexing paws all the way in, or possibly remove the the indexing plate from the bottom of the press (prolly preferred so ya don't have to recalibrate stuff).
I've not had to do much 'single stage'-esque stuff on my press, mostly just calibrating stuff (ie: powder drop / seating depth / etc)... and sometimes crimp... all of which, the auto progress part has not been a problem.
We'll have to see what happens when it comes to rifle....
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I have two Lee presses - a turret and a Classic Cast single stage. I can load about 200 rounds an hour of pistol ammo on the turret press. I haven't had any real problems with it, but IMO it's not precise enough for precision loading rifle ammo. Too much slop in the turret. Some day I'll get a Dillon or Hornady progressive.
I really like the Classic Cast press. It's built like a tank. I really think it's a hard press to beat for the money if you're looking at a single stage.
I've always wondered how guys load rifle ammo on a progressive press. With bottleneck cartridges you have to check case length after resizing, trim (if necessary) and then deburr. How does that work on a progressive when you're running cases through from beginning to end all at once?
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I have no idea of the quality of it.... but....
the lee 50th anniversary single stage kit comes with just about everything ya might need, and goes for $90-$120 ? i think ?
cabella's has them too.
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Equipment ya don't like ....
The Hornady 38 special / 357 mag / 357 max three die set is... a tad annoying. The bullet seater lacks any kind of crimp (not even taper). So if ya bell the case mouth too much, you have to crimp everything. I picked up a taper crimp die for cheap plated bullets and a roll / factory crimp die as well for the fancier bullets. $10-$15 for each type of crimp die. The Hornady dies not offering a crimp on seat in this particular set is REALLY annoying. Otherwise, they're fine dies. (Their 41mag dies do offer a roll crimp however).
The RCBS 40 s&w dies were almost too short for my press somehow. They feel more loose than the hornady ones as well (they are NOT loose though). I've produced thousands of rounds through them and they perform great though. They're precise and function wonderfully, they're just "weird" in how they sit in my press for some reason.
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I've got an electric caliper set. Batteries dying on those are really annoying. I'm real tempted to pick up an analog dial based one. If your eyes are troublesome, the digital might be a better idea though.
Some of the smaller hand tools (dechamfer/deburr, primer pocket etc) are.. a tad tedious. I think Lyman makes an easy to grip screwdriver sized all in one set thing that is probably a lot more ergonomic. I'll be picking up a powered case prep center when I get into rifle reloading... and will be using the hand tools as back up or whatever. But -- yeah -- get something more ergonomic than tiny little things.
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I've got a Mec 600 or 650 jr simple 12ga shotshell press that seems alright, but I've not done much with it. Then again, I don't load for trap / skeet.
My first press (only about a year ago) was that 50th anniversary breech lock package. I give the press 9.5/10 and think for the money the package costs I would pay that alone for the press, can't say enough about the breech lock system. However the powder dispenser and scale are complete junk and would rate them both 2/10, scale never holds its zero and dispenser jams with extruded gun powders and doesn't throw anything remotely consistent. I like the hand primer system since you can feel when it is seating properly and is easy to change from small primer tray to large primer tray and I give it 8/10. The chamfer/deburr tool is small and cramps up your fingers (especially after doing hundreds of rounds), but it does an ok job and I give it a 6/10.
After upgrading several things in this kit I love my setup.
Current setup:
Breech Lock Press
Lee Hand Primer
RCBS Chargemaster 1500 dispenser/scale combo
Lyman case prep set
Hornady M2 Tumbler
If I would start again I would buy everything separate. Chargemaster isn't necessary for a first time reloader but I'm glad I bought it early before I bought any other dispensers or scales so I feel no need to ever upgrade. The Lyman case prep tools save saved my hands a lot of aching and strongly advise getting some case prep tools that have comfortable handles. And for making brass nice and shiny I like my Hornady tumbler, to make sure you don't burn out a tumbler put it on a surface that allows it to get fresh air flow to the fan.
PS Lee's universal decapping die works great for depriming large amounts of brass of varying sizes, or when you don't want to go through the hassle of lubing cases and just want to clean the primer pockets
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Here's a great primer (pun intended) from a good friend of mine on reloading inexpensively: http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=776404 (http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=776404)
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The only thing I have that I did not like was the cheap aluminum press that came with my Lee Challenger kit ....... they have since stopped selling that press, and replaced it with their Classic Cast Press ..... which is a good one, as I have used y brother's ......
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I bought a Lee Turret Press which has worked for MANY rounds, and still gets use for occasional .223 and Revolver ammo.
Bought a Dillon 550 and Hands down runs circles around the Lee for reloading a good amount of ammo. The first time I was preparing for a big match and had to do 900 rounds on the Lee turret, was the last time!!!!!
If you have plenty of time and only loading 2k rounds a year, the inexpensive Lee Turret is good
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Thought I'd throw this out there.
Some people have done some basic swaging (lead forming and make your own jackets) stuff on Rock Chuckers. The older ones with the bigger ram seem to be darn near godly.
Not too sure if I'd trust doing any of that really high pressure swaging stuff on anything other than a Rock Chucker (or custom press for it).
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i want to get into reloading but it seems overwhelming :-[
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i want to get into reloading but it seems overwhelming :-[
There are several of us who reload if that's not obvious, and most reloaders tend to be quite friendly. I'm sure any one of us would gladly discuss the details.
Also, youtube has A LOT of videos on it. I particularly like ammosmith's videos.
I did a fair bit of reading and watching a lot of videos for about 2 weeks before getting into it. Watched a lot of the 'neat' videos where people were doing some unorthodox things. Videos where people where talking about loading match grade ammo. Annnnnddd I watched lots of the "how to set up your press" videos. Stuff that'd talk about assembly, basic info about dies, how to seat/calibrate/position/whatever dies, etc.
Ya just break it down into it's subsequent parts.
Similarly, I'm sure you know what a wrench is. A socket set. That there are SAE and metric sizes. Hammers, philips head and flat head screw drivers, etc. Reloaders have their own set of tools and such... that's all.
If you have an eye for detail, some patience and wisdom of safety, the desire, a place to do it in (i actually do my reloading in a spare bedroom - and i live alone), and some spare $$$ ... it's not terribly difficult to get into.
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i want to get into reloading but it seems overwhelming :-[
Read the information at the link I posted on the first page. It's a great primer from a guy who is a licensed ammunition manufacturer.
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BRAIN FREEZE ???
Question for you guys with the progressives. If you wanted to do some "match grade" type stuff, could you only use 1 or 2 stations and kind of use it as a single press?
Really looking hard at the Hornady LNL AP, mostly cause it has 5 stations and it's from Nbraski. ;D
And it gets good reviews except for the primer feed issues that some people complain about.
Thanks for all the info, Koz
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Dan W and I were discussing the feasibility of single staging it on progressive presses on first page :D
I've not had any problems doing single stage like actions on my press, just put the die in question in an easy to get to spot.
Looking at my LNL AP, getting the auto index mechanism / plate / star thing off looks like it'd be a real PITA.
Lets see, for match grade press operations you'll neck size & decap the old primer, seat the primer, and seat the bullet on the press.
Optionally, you might seat the primer by hand.
If you really wanted to single stage those operations, putting the appropriate die in the last position would give you single stage like operation.
The only real draw back I can maybe see is that progressive presses tend to hold shells in the plate by a spring. Shell holders on the single stage give a much more positive lock feel. If this matters at all, I dunno.
NOTE: I HAVE NOT DONE MATCH GRADE AMMO ON MY LNL AP
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i want to get into reloading but it seems overwhelming
It is easier than driving- no time pressure. You just break everything down to it's simplest steps, and do them one at a time, carefully. Simple.
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As noted in the copper plating thread, stuff came in for casting bullets. Included in my order was a Lee Sizing Die.
These have a punch you install into the shell plate holder or similar of single stage presses. The punch is what pushes the lead through the die.
I am not sure if I have an easy way to install this punch into my Hornady LNL AP. Dunno if the shell plate holder thing will handle it or not. Will update tonight how it handles.
Sooo... this is in reference to pro/con of progressive or single stage presses.
Also fun to note... with the indexing system of the LNL AP looking difficult to disable.... I will possibly be having to reposition the punch every bullet, or possibly not letting the ram fall all the way back down so it doesn't constantly index.
edit: this means pressing a bullet through the die, leaving the handle in the down position, getting next bullet ready, lowering ram only slightly, position bullet, push new one back through the die.
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Keep in mind - reloading will not save you any money if you are like most reloaders - you will just be able to shoot more with the money you spend. It is addicting! And you will likely not stick with your original setup, adding and changing tools and equipment as you become more proficient at it. Not saying it is a bad thing - just saying if you are doing this to SAVE money - you probably won't.
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Keep in mind - reloading will not save you any money if you are like most reloaders - you will just be able to shoot more with the money you spend. It is addicting! And you will likely not stick with your original setup, adding and changing tools and equipment as you become more proficient at it. Not saying it is a bad thing - just saying if you are doing this to SAVE money - you probably won't.
Sage advice and all too true.
I started out as a way of just saving money... but ended up going to the range several times a week, shooting 100+ rounds a trip.... rather than going once a week or every other week. I've been sick for much of this year and haven't shot much... but I'm starting to feel better and getting that *itch*.
Also note the little bit of money I'm spending on copper plating in the other thread. It's a fun hobby!
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You *can* save money by reloading.... you're just all too likely to shoot more instead :).
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Keep in mind - reloading will not save you any money if you are like most reloaders - you will just be able to shoot more with the money you spend. It is addicting! And you will likely not stick with your original setup, adding and changing tools and equipment as you become more proficient at it. Not saying it is a bad thing - just saying if you are doing this to SAVE money - you probably won't.
At this point for me, it is more of the "Guy Thing" :P of just being able to do it and pass some knowlege on to my son. For the amount of rounds that I may reload, I don't think I will ever save money after you figure in the cost of all the equipment that still needs to be purchased.
And, factory ammo in 9mm and 40cal can still be bought fairly cheap compared to FMJ bullets and needed supplies.
Currently checking out the Redding and RCBS turrets. Might be more versitile and solid to used for pistol and rifle loads. Still doing research.
Thanks again for all the info. Koz
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Punch for sizing die doesn't fit under shell plate of my LNL. grrrrrr.
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For the amount of rounds that I may reload, I don't think I will ever save money after you figure in the cost of all the equipment that still needs to be purchased.
It has been awhile since I ran the numbers, but I once figured out that it would take the savings on 300 reloads vs. buying 300 rounds of Winchester factory ammo in .270 Win to pay for a Lee 50th anniversary kit and dies....... I don't know about you, but I have at times fired 300 rounds in a weekend (killing prairie dogs is good practice with your deer rifle!).
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JimP. Ya see that my problem is that I am sooooo new to the shooting scene that my pricing comparision is being done with 40cal 180gr FMJ. The rifle stuff is pretty thin in my safe, Just the cheap ol 30-30 Marlin, and 1 of those nasty black things in 5.56 and some foreign POS that bangs 7.62R. So until I come up with a 338 Lapua or 7mm Mag, my savings just aren't that important, YET.
This was the 1st year that I went deer hunting, ever. Shot 2 deer on 2 shots at about 50 yards combined. The ol 30-30 did good with cheap store bought soft points.
Now with that said, it would be nice to be able to do anything I want on just 1 press. But a single stage would be sooooo slow for pistol but perfect for rifle, and the progressive would be great for pistol but questionable for rifle. So, that is why I guess alot of people have more than 1 press.
And for you guys with the progresives. What is it about them that doesn't seem right for rifle ammo? Read some stuff about looseness in the heads when trying to do 4-5 actions at once, or that they just don't feel solid enough that people are concerned about the consistency of the load. Too much size checking cause they just don't trust the consistency. But isn't size checking a normal thing especially for quality rifle loads? So, Is it a feel thing or are they just not heavy enough?
thanks again, Koz
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If you are anything like me, you will end up with a Single stage for the more "precise" loads (anything that you really care about accuracy in). Then you will also get the L-N-L for the more "high volume" loads. I went all Hornady with my setup (except the MEC shotgun reloaders).
On the single stage it works really nicely to learn the steps. I hand clean each piece of brass (rifle, non high volume ones) size, trim them all, chamfer and deburr, clean the primer pocket (in and out) then run them back through to prime. Set up the electronic scale that auto dispenses, plug in my charge load, and I can seat the bullet in about the time the RCBS dispenser drops another charge (within .01 grains!) Keeps everything to the nats ass. No I don’t get AS anal as some of the benchrest shooters, but most of my accurate guns will shoot dimes at 100 yds or less… (not bad for a 270) I would never want to sit down and so any real volume of handgun or just fun rounds at a single stage!!!
Now on the L-N-L, every pull of the leaver, I get a bullet! I mostly do my handgun stuff on my LNL. I don’t worry about trimming (generally), and the drop charge with the pistol insert is pretty darn accurate. I make sure to drop 10 loads, and each load has to be “on” for the charge weight before I even start reloading. Pretty darn fast, and you can get a lot of rounds loaded in a fairly short amount of time. I have done 223, on it, but only my AR rounds that might get to MOA on a good day.
As for the shotgun stuff. Well I shoot A LOT of 12,20,and 28 so there was no way I was going to use a single stage, or even a hand indexing one. I currently run MEC 9000 G’s
I think you will really need to decide on what your budget is, how much shooting, and what type of shooting you want to do. I think that every press has it’s pros, and con’s. Overall I am pretty happy with my setups. Hornady made a change on the LNL about 2 years ago on how they kick out the bullet, and it is MUCH better. Mine will fling a round across the basement every now and again. Just like my MEC’s will sometimes not do something just so, and drop lead/powder all over. It’s not the end of the world just a mess.
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JimP. Ya see that my problem is that I am sooooo new to the shooting scene that my pricing comparision is being done with 40cal 180gr FMJ. The rifle stuff is pretty thin in my safe, Just the cheap ol 30-30 Marlin, and 1 of those nasty black things in 5.56 and some foreign POS that bangs 7.62R. So until I come up with a 338 Lapua or 7mm Mag, my savings just aren't that important, YET.
With missouri lead or some other commercially bought lead (reloadersauction.com or something) - I end up paying ~$6-$7 per box of 50 .40s&w (lead + primer + powder, bought in relative bulk). I believe with Berry's plated I ended up at $12 per box of 50 ?
This was the 1st year that I went deer hunting, ever. Shot 2 deer on 2 shots at about 50 yards combined. The ol 30-30 did good with cheap store bought soft points.
30-30 makes a fine deer rifle :). It definitely is underrated these days when you compare it along it's intended use. That's a debate for another thread tho hehehe.
Now with that said, it would be nice to be able to do anything I want on just 1 press. But a single stage would be sooooo slow for pistol but perfect for rifle, and the progressive would be great for pistol but questionable for rifle. So, that is why I guess alot of people have more than 1 press.
If approached with an assembly line mentality (prep ALL the cases, prep ALL the powder charges, seat ALL of the bullets)... it's not terribly slow. Particularly if ya get a volumetric powder charger / thrower. Ya get a rhythm down and quickly mull through the process. You won't produce 800 rounds an hour like ya can on a fully decked out progressive, but.... do you really need to produce 800 rounds an hour ?
And for you guys with the progresives. What is it about them that doesn't seem right for rifle ammo? Read some stuff about looseness in the heads when trying to do 4-5 actions at once, or that they just don't feel solid enough that people are concerned about the consistency of the load. Too much size checking cause they just don't trust the consistency. But isn't size checking a normal thing especially for quality rifle loads? So, Is it a feel thing or are they just not heavy enough?
The Hornady LNL is a heavy machine. Things generally feel very tight and... well.. heavy. The only things relating to the press itself that I might have a complaint with concerning rifle ammo would be that there isn't a "sure lock" feel of the brass in the shell plate (vs a single stage shell holder), and the fact that the dies are in some quick release style bushings. These are probably non-issues though... I've not had problems yet. And the only die that i've seen move in the press is the powder thrower (which doesn't require precision placement in the press anyway... and just give it a nudge every 20-25 rounds and it's all good).
Much of what Toster had to say is good advice as well.
Koz - where do you live ? Do you also mind if we ask what your budget is ?
My apartment is a disaster and not accepting company at the moment, but there might be some other reloaders around here that might give you some hands on stuff with the different machines.
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Somewhat off topic... but... I came up with a solution for the bullet punch problem on the Lee Bullet Sizing Die stuff on my LNL.
(http://www.unfy.org/plating/punch.jpg)
Took a shell plate that had a big enough hole in it (in this case, plate #29 for the 41mag)... and flipped it upside down.
Holds it just fine (although still concerns over auto indexing and the fact it's not being held in place by the coiled brass retention spring).
Given that the punch has the thinner diameter at the top, then a middle ring, then the fat flat head that would typically hold it in place .... the punch actually stops going into the die at the middle ring area.
Annnnnddd... it lines up just fine and goes into the sizing die no problem.
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some foreign POS that bangs 7.62R.
You speak poorly of the Red 30-06.......
I like mine more and more.....
As for 2 deer with 2 shots, good shooting!
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Well.....I went and done it. Ordered a Redding Big Boss II from Midway. Looked real hard at the Rock Chucker, but read alot of not so happy posts. Seems that they are now made in China and the fit and finish really is an issue to some people. So, I chose the Redding. My plans are to use the Honady LNL adapter and bushings to make die changes easy and quick. Ya know, setup speed is an issue when you try to load 50 rounds in a week. :laugh: Lets see now, all I need is a hand primer, power dispenser, scale, dies, shell holders, reloading manual, calipers, case trimmers,.......... :-\ and enough sense to learn the proper procedures. :o Otherwise, all I have is a really nice nutcracker. :'( Anybody need walnut shells for their tumbler ?
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>:D BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA >:D ..... another poor helpless victim joins the ranks of hand loaders ... >:D
*ahem*
Congrats Kozball! Your addiction hobby is just beginning!
Case trimmer .... there are some fancy electric all in one things that might be cool... but... i have one of these and can attest to their absolutely great quality:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/614276/forster-original-case-trimmer-kit (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/614276/forster-original-case-trimmer-kit)
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Re: Case Trimmer.........
That little cranky-handle with the knurled knob can be easily removed via the Allen screw.
And a 1/4" or 3/8" drill motor (variable speed preferred) can be hooked up directly to the trimmer spindle, replacing the cranky-handle. All of which saves wear and tear on the reloader-person and puts it onto machinery, where it righteously belongs.
The case mouth chamfering can be done with the drill, as well.
Makes the whole case trimming thing go like blazes.
sfg
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i will NOT attach a drill to his foster trimmer. the quality is astounding, and it's not cheap. i refuse to risk ruining it by attaching some p.o.s. quality drill to it.
also, it cuts through brass like butter, takes no effort / time at all to trim down factory new 41mag brass to proper length.
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You have a bench to set it on, koz?
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JimP........
If you're talkin' to me, yes--very fine, sturdy home-built reloading bench.
Drill works like a charm on the old plain-Jane Hornady case trimmer. Eliminates hand cranking, which can get pretty tedious after the first 50 cases.
I've used both cordless and corded drills, with a shim block to support the drill's axis in line with the trimmer cutter's axis.
Trim length is set to minimum case length. The cases can grow with shooting, especially the hotter loads. Case length, as you very well know, is an issue in avoiding very high chamber pressures.
'Course reloaders can buy those Hornady Lock-N-Load Power Case Prep Center devices for only $531.67 http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-Power-Case-Prep-Center/ (http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-Power-Case-Prep-Center/). About the same as a new Glock.
The jury-rigged drill works just fine for me.
sfg
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A cheaper and lighter alternative to the drill would be a cordless screwdriver. It uses the same adapter SFG is talking about, is lighter and as such doesn't need to be supported, slides on and off the adapter without needing to be chucked, and is just a handy tool to keep on your bench.
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You have a bench to set it on, koz?
JimP...Well sorta. My plans are to get rid of my Corvette and build a nice workbench / storage cabinet setup. Maybe about 8 ft long, or should I go BIGGER ;D
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re: hornady lnl case prep center
Midway reviews of the thing seem to be dubious. I love my LNL press, but given the price tag of the case prep center... i want a 90-95% positive review list with few or no caveats listed. The prep center fails this :(
The uh, cheaper.... lyman thing doesn't include a trimmer... but is also only $100 or so:
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/case-prep/case-prep-xpress.php (http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/case-prep/case-prep-xpress.php)
And generally gets good reviews and a tiny price.... I think when I was debating getting a case prep machine, this is what I was leaning towards (over the rcbs prep mate). Don't own either, so can't comment on quality etc.
re: drill
nope, still no thanks. it takes all of 2 seconds, maybe 3 to trim a factory new case on the foster thing. A drill would shorten that to... 1.5-2.0 ? not worth the risk of me messing up and knocking the drill off and messing up bushings or something.
re: cordless screw driver
not a bad idea.... i like.
actually, if I was going to motorize the thing, I'd either make my own motor attachment thing (see: copper plating / motor basket thing) or actually rig a drill up so that it's a permanent attachment within it's own box like the commercial / retail powered trimmers are.
then again, if i had an old / beat up / cheap case trimmer, i can see going ahead and chucking it to a drill hehe.
re: reloading bench
yeah, i'm not too wise, but i have limited options. my computer room (spare bedroom) doubles as my reloading / plating experiment center (no, i don't cast lead in it heh). I have an 8 foot folding table that i bolted a 3/4inch piece of plywood too. Solid surface... and at 8 feet, the table is huge and sturdy (even though folding table... although i've not tried to swage my own lead bullets / jackets). It's also dirt cheap to make (cheapest folding table + cheap 3/4" plywood...). i've got some cheap walmart wood-ish shelving things sitting along the back of it that give me 4-6 shelves to place parts / dies / etc on.
8 feet -- it seems like a lot of room, but unless you make it so you can move tools around (presses / etc), you'll probably find it ends up being kinda cramped after your addiction hobby continues to flourish. for me, my 8 foot folding table is enough for the LNL progressive press, shelves, a MEC 600 jr (or was it 650?) for shotshell reloading, and a small case prep area. Having lots of space available is really important to me when reloading.... seems like I'm less likely to **** up that way.
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re: drill
nope, still no thanks. it takes all of 2 seconds, maybe 3 to trim a factory new case on the foster thing. A drill would shorten that to... 1.5-2.0 ? not worth the risk of me messing up and knocking the drill off and messing up bushings or something.
re: cordless screw driver
not a bad idea.... i like.
actually, if I was going to motorize the thing, I'd either make my own motor attachment thing (see: copper plating / motor basket thing) or actually rig a drill up so that it's a permanent attachment within it's own box like the commercial / retail powered trimmers are.
then again, if i had an old / beat up / cheap case trimmer, i can see going ahead and chucking it to a drill hehe.
The powered trimmer thing isn't really about time, it's about effort. Anyone else who has given himself blisters trimming cases knows what I'm talking about. ;)