Author Topic: Reloading Presses ? (Read 8062 times)

kozball · « **on:** December 11, 2011, 04:31:25 PM »

Thinking about purchasing a reloading press to load about 2000 rds per year. Will be mostly 40sw and 9mm and could maybe get to some
223rem. Have been reading about the Hornady Lock n Load AP and the Dillon 550. I realize that 2000 rds is not alot per year, but for a few more $$ could get a progresive instead of a single. Less time loading= more time shooting.

What do you all use? Any problems with equipment or service?

Thanks in advance. Koz

gunsunited · « **Reply #1 on:** December 11, 2011, 04:37:16 PM »

I use the Hornady LNL and love it. I had one issue and that just took a phone call. Spare parts in the mail the next day. I am not to excited with Hornady's full length sizing dies in 223 and 308. Got some Reddings instead. Pistol Dies from Hornady are just fine. One of the things i did to increase reliability is polishing the bottom part of the primer feed thingy.

Bigtony · « **Reply #2 on:** December 11, 2011, 04:55:02 PM »

I reload with a old RCBS Rock Chucker. Bought everything I needed between sites like this, craigslist, and ebay. For me a single stage press is the way to go though I have been admiring some progressive presses but it will probably be til I find a good used deal somewhere. When I have time, in the winter months mostly, I go do a little reloading and by the time spring rolls around I have plenty to blast off. Also have a Dillon SL900 12 ga shotgun reloading press and a vintage Polar Bair 600 12 ga. My reloading room is getting full so I'll probably have to sell one of them. But as far as customer service, RCBS and Dillon are second to none. Both my presses were purchased used and I have called both company's to replace parts and they send them at no cost-no questions asked.

unfy · « **Reply #3 on:** December 11, 2011, 04:57:52 PM »

I've got a Hornady LNL AP progressive.

Love it.

There have been a few tiny caveats here or there that are prolly just my machine specific... but... I've put thousands of brass through it with no problems.

Hornady has also been a pleasure to deal with, and they're from NE!

Dies are fairly interchangeable, a carbide / tungsten die set that doesn't need lube is suggested for pistol to make matters simpler.

Get a hornady powder cop die, for sure. Safety first, an extra visual reminder of not loading a powderless case is always a good thing.

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The turret presses are progressive in that it rotates the dies to feed into the brass. Cheap and supposed to be easy / reliable. No personal experience with them.

Not as fast as a plate full of brass spinning.

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The hornady has 5 die positions, which is handy compared to a 4 station setup.

After powder throw stuff is calibrated, I produce about 100 40s&w in about 20min.

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Required extras:

Powder scale (a $25 cheapy electric by mec is fine).

Calipers (digital or dial is your choice, make sure you can do .0001 of an inch or finer)

Bullet puller of some kind (either kinetic hammer thing or a die that goes in press)

Primer flip tray ($3, save your sanity)

Reloading manual(s) ($15-$25). Something current to start with is good (speer / hornady). Collecting more as you go isn't a bad idea either if ya find'em cheap.

Ammo storage boxes. Plastic things are $2-$4 a piece. Midway USA has cardboard box + styrofoam things cheap bulk.

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Suggeted:

Tumbler or sonic cleaner. I've got a vibrating bowl tumbler, does nicely. Sonic ones seem to have decent reviews online but dunno how long they live for. Cabella's has vibrator + media separator for not too much usually. If you get a vibrator you'll need vibrating material as well ($15-$20). You *can* just wash your brass in really hot soapy water, but a dedicated solution is handy.

Down the line you'll prolly pick up primer pocket cleaners / reamers, deburring / dechamfering tool, flash hole reamer. All are $5-$8 a piece, lyman might sell an all in one kit.

I recently just picked up a Foster case trimmer. Love it. Doing a fresh run of 41mag for my dad and factory brass tends to be a bit long / needs trimming. I've not checked my 40s&w brass to see if it needs to be trimmed just yet... haven't had any feed / gun issues yet. I'll prolly sit down one day and check / trim tho. It's a higher pressure round so it might flow the brass more.

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Btw, if you were the gentlemen at Guns Unlimited, hi!

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Edit: i've not tried rifle rounds on the LNL AP yet. Will eventually be doing 3030 in it.

unfy · « **Reply #4 on:** December 11, 2011, 04:59:21 PM »

Oh.

Other requirement with the Hornady press -- and possibly other presses...

Hornady One-Shot dry lube stuff.

unfy · « **Reply #5 on:** December 11, 2011, 05:02:26 PM »

Quote from: gunsunited on December 11, 2011, 04:37:16 PM

I use the Hornady LNL and love it. I had one issue and that just took a phone call. Spare parts in the mail the next day. I am not to excited with Hornady's full length sizing dies in 223 and 308. Got some Reddings instead. Pistol Dies from Hornady are just fine. One of the things i did to increase reliability is polishing the bottom part of the primer feed thingy.

Primer feed slides are a bit annoying, and also had to adjust the plastic primer guide thing a bit further out for it to always grab a primer (just a screw driver).

For me, my press was also not indexing correctly, so i had to adjust the paws a bit.

My last issue with my press from time to time is that primers don't seem to seat all the way. Could be how I have the press mounted and use it (sitting down, typically at an angle). I found a thin metal washer under the primer seating nub fixes my problems. Note: doing large pistol primers, i've not had this problem.

bk09 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 11, 2011, 05:27:30 PM »

Bought a Lee Challenger Breech Lock and love it! The breech lock bushings help interchange dies in no time and keep them adjusted to where you set them. One night a friend joined me and we made about 800 .223 in 4 or 5 hours (he would full length size and give to me to chamfer/deburr new LC brass and then prime using a Lee hand held primer and then when that was done I filled with powder and he seated bullet). For the money there is nothing I feel that comes close to it. Every time I buy news dies I buy some Lee Breech Lock Quick Change Bushings with Die Lock Ring built in and allows Lee dies to be locked solidly in place with the ease of changing regular quick change bushings have. And for a dispenser/scale I feel my RCBS Chargemaster 1500 Dispenser/Scale combo is irreplaceable. Not as fast as a regular dispenser but at least I know for sure how much powder I am putting in each case. If you only plan on doing a couple thousand rounds a year then I would pick a single stage press, fewer problems to encounter compared to a turret/progressive. Personally I find reloading as/more fun than shooting, great sense of accomplishment knowing you just made your own high quality ammo, so slower single stage presses give me an excuse to spend more time doing what I love. If you have any more questions PM me and I would be glad to help!

Dan W · « **Reply #7 on:** December 11, 2011, 05:32:58 PM »

There are a few schools of thought about presses.

I have 3 different systems depending on the type of ammo

12 gauge is loaded on a 7 station progressive Hornady 366 Auto. No cleaning, just a case inspection, fill the shot and powder hoppers, set the lead charge, test for powder weight, load the primer tube and go

I load pistol rounds on a Dillon Square Deal - also a progressive, with 4 stations.
Just clean the brass, set the powder charge weight, fill the primer tube and go

But I reload .223 the old fashioned way. I don't think that accurate rifle ammo lends itself to progressive press operations.

All brass prep operation are done separately in batches.

For one I clean the brass , then deprime in a separate operation because I load a lot of crimped primer military cases. Crimped cases need to have the crimp ring removed the first time they are loaded

I then lube the case, full length resize with Redding dies, trim to length with a Possum Hollow trimmer run by a drill, chamfer the case mouth, then clean it again to remove the sizing lube

Lee hand priming tool assures that primer seating is firm and depth is OK

Powder charges are done in trays of 50 on a Redding powder measure, with a random check on a Balance beam scale

Sizing and bullet insertion are performed on a Lee Classic Cast 4 hole turret press.

I do not seat and crimp in one operation like the dies instructions indicate, but rather, crimping is done in a separate operation with a Lee Factory Crimp Die when desired.

The reasons I don't think a progressive is the best for rifle is the need confirm primer seating depth to avoid slam fires, and the need to clean the brass after full length resizing.

If not cleaned well, the powder sticks to the lube in the case neck.

I am not ever going to recommend Hornady One Shot as a lube. I use Imperial Case Wax. If you want to try a spray lube use Dillon or Frankford Arsenal brands

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Bigtony · « **Reply #8 on:** December 11, 2011, 05:36:50 PM »

Lees customer service is questionable ecspeacially when the 1 year warranty is up. Don't expect them to fix your problem without a cost to you. RCBS, Dillon, and I'm sure hornady (I don't actually own anything hornady) have lifetime warranties, no questions asked. And I agree bradkoll reloading is actually as enjoying if not more as shooting your own hand loads.

unfy · « **Reply #9 on:** December 11, 2011, 05:39:01 PM »

Great post Dan, I can agree with the school of thought on much of that. With rifle reloading, I may pick up a cheap Lee single stage press or something, I dunno. Rock Chuckers are only $120 anyway. And rifle is all about exacting consistency and stuff.

I've got a Mec 600 or 650 jr shotshell reloader that I use for my own 3" 15 pellet shells. No problems with it, but not as fast as the autoloaders.

Quote from: Dan W on December 11, 2011, 05:32:58 PM

I am not ever going to recommend Hornady One Shot as a lube. I use Imperial Case Wax. If you want to try a spray lube use Dillon or Frankford Arsenal brands

Not suggested as bullet or case lube. More suggested for the press / dies itself

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Dan W · « **Reply #10 on:** December 11, 2011, 05:46:46 PM »

Another thing a newbie wants to check out is how to remove a stuck .223 case from a die

Bigtony · « **Reply #11 on:** December 11, 2011, 06:15:56 PM »

If a Rock Chucker, buy used! They still have a warranty.

Bill · « **Reply #12 on:** December 11, 2011, 09:38:24 PM »

I've inherited my father's Lee press turret press and it still works fine after untold thousands of rounds of .38, 357, and 9mm through it. Is it a Cadillac? No, but it's a reliable old Chevy.

Like most people I would (am) doing a single-stage press for rifle. Rifle cartridges just have too much energy stored up to not be exceptionally diligent with the preparation.

unfy · « **Reply #13 on:** December 12, 2011, 01:30:22 PM »

Wanna throw this out there.

My Hornady LNL AP with auto powder thing typically gets powder charges within +/- 0.1 grains. Have used Unique and Win296 in it (maybe Blue Dot as well). Soooo... I don't doubt that the quality volumetric powder throwers can be really consistent (how the plastic bushing lee thing works out i dunno).

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That said ... if you're wanting to produce match grade ammo, then lots of hand work and manual whatever probably isn't a bad idea. I've ran my LNL with a single die-at-a-time before for crimping some rounds. Soo... I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to get ultra consistent with a progressive if ya treat it like a single stage.

Going through 41mag.... trimming brass and then crimp seating bullets, I've found in 'mass production mode', it produces rounds that are virtually identical (can't tell two rounds apart).

But.... if you *are* producing match grade rifle ammo, you'll want to turn your necks, not full length size, and hand weigh all of your charges anyway. I don't see how a progressive press used as if it was single stage would matter much. The ram and plate base are just as solid, the dies don't move at all, etc. For the progressive presses that use die bushings, there might be some concern about a tiny bit of play from the bushings... but... they seem pretty darn solid in my press

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JimP · « **Reply #14 on:** December 12, 2011, 03:05:18 PM »

I would suggest a single stage press starting out ......YMMV.

I still use a single stage to do all my reloading ..... speaking of which, I need to get some rounds together for next monday .....later.

kozball · « **Reply #15 on:** December 12, 2011, 03:26:50 PM »

Seems to me that you all seem to like what you have, and if there were any issues, you able to work thru them. Turning a short story into a long story, I want to reload for the knowlege and the challenge of it. I also have a 12yr old son that is showing some interest and hope to pass on what I can to him. I just started shooting some USPSA and such this year. I plan on doing a few matches per year to see if I can improve my skills. Being a 55yr old blind guy, I don't think that "Match Grade" falls into any category with my ability. The handgun loads would be close to "out of the box" type stuff. For bowling pins, I would need to explore some Chris Z type "special"loads.

Would like to do some 3-gun someday. That is where the 223 rem would be needed. But can't do 3-gun yet, as I don't have the grande huevos and my Ithica 37 blew up in my face.

Has anyone had anything that you didn't like and got rid of ?

Koz

unfy · « **Reply #16 on:** December 12, 2011, 03:46:35 PM »

I have no idea of the quality of it.... but....

the lee 50th anniversary single stage kit comes with just about everything ya might need, and goes for $90-$120 ? i think ?

cabella's has them too.

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Equipment ya don't like ....

The Hornady 38 special / 357 mag / 357 max three die set is... a tad annoying. The bullet seater lacks any kind of crimp (not even taper). So if ya bell the case mouth too much, you have to crimp everything. I picked up a taper crimp die for cheap plated bullets and a roll / factory crimp die as well for the fancier bullets. $10-$15 for each type of crimp die. The Hornady dies not offering a crimp on seat in this particular set is REALLY annoying. Otherwise, they're fine dies. (Their 41mag dies do offer a roll crimp however).

The RCBS 40 s&w dies were almost too short for my press somehow. They feel more loose than the hornady ones as well (they are NOT loose though). I've produced thousands of rounds through them and they perform great though. They're precise and function wonderfully, they're just "weird" in how they sit in my press for some reason.

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I've got an electric caliper set. Batteries dying on those are really annoying. I'm real tempted to pick up an analog dial based one. If your eyes are troublesome, the digital might be a better idea though.

Some of the smaller hand tools (dechamfer/deburr, primer pocket etc) are.. a tad tedious. I think Lyman makes an easy to grip screwdriver sized all in one set thing that is probably a lot more ergonomic. I'll be picking up a powered case prep center when I get into rifle reloading... and will be using the hand tools as back up or whatever. But -- yeah -- get something more ergonomic than tiny little things.

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I've got a Mec 600 or 650 jr simple 12ga shotshell press that seems alright, but I've not done much with it. Then again, I don't load for trap / skeet.

Dan W · « **Reply #17 on:** December 12, 2011, 07:30:31 PM »

Unfy, I agree that using a press that has progressive capabilities in a manner similar to a single stage is a good choice.

When I think of progressive presses I am thinking auto advance- like my Square Deal or a Dillon 650

If you can disable the auto advance function, then it is no different than a single stage.

All the auto advance parts have been removed from my Lee turret

unfy · « **Reply #18 on:** December 12, 2011, 07:52:57 PM »

Quote from: Dan W on December 12, 2011, 07:30:31 PM

If you can disable the auto advance function, then it is no different than a single stage.

On the Hornady LNL AP, you can prolly push the indexing paws all the way in, or possibly remove the the indexing plate from the bottom of the press (prolly preferred so ya don't have to recalibrate stuff).

I've not had to do much 'single stage'-esque stuff on my press, mostly just calibrating stuff (ie: powder drop / seating depth / etc)... and sometimes crimp... all of which, the auto progress part has not been a problem.

We'll have to see what happens when it comes to rifle....

bkoenig · « **Reply #19 on:** December 12, 2011, 08:54:13 PM »

I have two Lee presses - a turret and a Classic Cast single stage. I can load about 200 rounds an hour of pistol ammo on the turret press. I haven't had any real problems with it, but IMO it's not precise enough for precision loading rifle ammo. Too much slop in the turret. Some day I'll get a Dillon or Hornady progressive.

I really like the Classic Cast press. It's built like a tank. I really think it's a hard press to beat for the money if you're looking at a single stage.

I've always wondered how guys load rifle ammo on a progressive press. With bottleneck cartridges you have to check case length after resizing, trim (if necessary) and then deburr. How does that work on a progressive when you're running cases through from beginning to end all at once?