NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
Handguns, Rifles & Shotguns => Handguns => Topic started by: RobertH on December 15, 2012, 07:25:05 PM
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ok, i am looking for a small 9mm or 40S&W. i would like it to be able to carry it in my front pocket. weight and size are concerns. i have a Ruger LCR, but i'm not fond of using it because i'm a lefty and its not fast reloading. i tried a few pistols, but nothing has really caught my attention. the biggest things for me are ambi controls and size/weight.
so basically i have a requirements:
1. ambi controls - safety, mag release, etc
2. 9mm or 40 S&W
3. must be somewhat compact for front pocket carrying
4. i prefer USA made, but willing to look at all options
5. doesn't cost a ton.
6. will be used specifically for CCW
so, please help me out.
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I've heard good things about the Walther PPS. I'm a lefty, too and prefer Walther's mag release levers to the normal, button-type releases. I carry the Walther PPQ (the PPS's big brother).
The PPS may be a little on the chunky side compared to a PM9 or something like that, but it is very lefty-friendly. It should also fit in the pocket of some loose cargo pants. It's certainly on my list.
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I recently bought a Beretta 9mm Nano, which is a subcompact.
This is what persuaded me:
Beretta Nano (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXxpkM7q_2E#ws)
Beretta Nano: 10 Things I Like (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku0miREsTuc#ws)
Field stripping
Field strip Beretta Nano (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwxo9vFqZes#ws)
Beretta Nano running the Gauntlet @100 Yards, STEET COP, STRAIGHT TALK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbF5oxsdrMY#ws)
Beretta Nano Complete Field Review.wmv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9Of903sJSk#)
Beretta Nano Complete Field Review.wmv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9Of903sJSk#)
Nano vs Glock 26
Beretta Nano vs Glock 26: Size & Feature Comparison (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMHYx2c7Qcw#ws)
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What about the Kahr subcompact 9mm's?
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I don't believe any of the Kahrs are ambidextrous, they are some of the first ones I usually suggest. Walther PPS is a good choice as stated earlier. Beretta PX4 subcompact is small in length and height but it is quite thick since it is a doublestack and it has ambidextrous safety, I think the mag release is interchangeable.
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cool. thanks for the suggestions so far and keep them coming. ill write them down and look at them the next time i go out. i'm usually a Ruger or S&W fan. i guess i can broaden my horizons a bit. ;D
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The way things are going lately I recommend a Glock 21 and 2 spare mags
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The way things are going lately I recommend a Glock 20 and 2 spare mags
Fixed for you. You want the bullets to get there.
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Walthers mag release set is pretty cool, even for a righty like me. They seem to be excellent weapons as well.
Glocks, the safety is in the trigger, can't get more lefty friendly than that ^-^. The Gen 4 allows you make the mag release left as well, just have to use only the Gen 4 mags.
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ok, i am looking for a small 9mm or 40S&W. i would like it to be able to carry it in my front pocket. weight and size are concerns. i have a Ruger LCR, but i'm not fond of using it because i'm a lefty and its not fast reloading. i tried a few pistols, but nothing has really caught my attention. the biggest things for me are ambi controls and size/weight.
so basically i have a requirements:
1. ambi controls - safety, mag release, etc
2. 9mm or 40 S&W
3. must be somewhat compact for front pocket carrying
4. i prefer USA made, but willing to look at all options
5. doesn't cost a ton.
6. will be used specifically for CCW
so, please help me out.
A number of people have already replied, but something struck me about your requirements, so I thought I'd ask---you want a small (read: tiny) gun for front pocket carry, yet you are worried about reloading speed? And there is something wrong with a revolver for a left-handed person? I'm a lefty, and I'm not understanding that. :)
If you are worried about capacity---then front pocket carry probably isn't the best choice. If you aren't locked into front pocket carry, it opens up all sorts of other choices.
If you are locked into pocket carry---either you are going to need huge pockets, or it is going to be 1) tiny, 2) low capacity, 3) painful for recoil unless it is a .22, .25, or .32, and 4) slow to access and use.
Even with huge pockets, you are still going to be stuck with #4.
S&W 442 or 642 are always good choices, if you have to. (And if you can actually fit a revolver in your pocket. I must say that for actual front pants-pocket carry, I haven't seen many people able to manage much in the way of a gun without it being uncomfortable and obvious, and REALLY slow to access.)
For 9mm, there are a number of small guns available---Kel-Tec PF 9, the subcompact Kahrs, etc. (None of which are fun to shoot or practice with.) Very few guns are fully ambidextrous. The slide stop/release is pretty much always on that left side. Like I said, I'm also left-handed, and haven't found this to really be an issue.
...but is there a reason it must be pocket carry?
As for a 40 vs a 9----lower capacity, significantly more recoil, and pretty much nothing in the way of increased effectiveness. If you have to go with a 9 or a 40---get the 9.
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ah good questions. i like pocket carry, its convenient for me (i know probably not the best), but i think the LCR "shows" a little too much. i don't find IWB very comfortable, i must wear my pants too low or something. i will explore more carrying options when/if i get a new pistol.
i also don't think im very accurate with the LCR, especially with the long trigger pull. it also kicks pretty good.
and yes, i think im pretty slow reloading a revolver. i also hate having to switch hands, too much room for error, especially when the adrenaline gets pumping.
does this help any?
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Are you carrying in a non-permissive environment? I don't get too wound up about "printing" as I only carry where it's permitted and avoid the hunting grounds for psychopaths whenever possible.
I have spent a fair amount of time carrying 5" or 4" 1911 IWB using just a t-shirt for concealment. No panic ensued. Most folk, the overwhelming majority, don't pay any attention.
The thing is, as it has been said many times by folks much more knowledgeable than I about the carrying biz, "the gun isn't supposed to be comfortable. It's supposed to be comforting."
I am more concerned about being in the middle of an active shooter situation that I am street crime (though I'm certainly not immune even in teeny tiny town rural Nebraska). I want a larger gun with a decent sight radius, in a decent caliber coupled with good magazine capacity.
I'd do whatever I can to find a way to carry a larger gun on your belt somehow. A good holster and a GOOD belt make a lot of difference. I figure if I can tote around an all steel 5" 1911 IWB, then almost anyone can.
I find pocket carry, even with a S&W 442 to be somewhat uncomfortable and slow. I regard such guns as backups only.
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Pocket carry is handy if you need to disarm to enter some places :angry:. A flat pocket nine with a holster will just disappear in my jeans front pocket. Pocket carry definitely requires a holster that covers the trigger and does not come when you need to draw the weapon. A pocket nine is more functional than a snubby IMO and I've carried both.
If I know I won't need to disarm, I prefer IWB. Conceals well and easy to access ^-^.
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A pistol that meets most of your requirements is the Rohrbaugh R9. http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/products (http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/products) No safety, has a heel mag release, 9mm, very compact, made in the USA, and was designed specifically for CCW. The downside is that it's quite expensive and the maintenance is a bit crazy--I think the recoil spring has to be replaced every 100-200 rounds. I don't have one but an acquaintance of mine really likes his for discreet pocket carry.
Pocket carry may be slower than IWB, but it allows you to grip your pistol discreetly in preparation, if necessary. It's one of my favorite carry methods with a S&W J-frame. I generally buy jeans that have large enough pockets to make this carry method feasible. There is a bulge, yes, but there are holsters available that break up the outline of the cylinder, so it doesn't scream "gun", it looks more like a thick wallet. Anyways, as another poster mentioned, most people are oblivious. If you decide not to go with pocket carry, you'd be surprised as to what you can effectively conceal. Even as a smaller guy when I started carrying (5'10" 140 lbs.) I could effectively conceal a Colt Commander (4.25" 1911 with a full-size grip) under a t-shirt with a good IWB holster and belt.
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Robert, I had your same thoughts about a new CHP weapon for myself, I wanted USA mfgr. I like Ruger and S&W.
So I compared the Ruger sr9c and the M&P by S&W. I ended up buying the Ruger, mainly because it felt better in my hand, was a little bit cheaper, and I liked the silver and black combo. I have no complaints about my choice, I do sometimes pocket carry it in a jacket, in a cheap fabric holster. I am in the market for an IWB holster for this gun, but have never tried this type of carry before. I also carry a snub nose S&W J frame 357 for pocket carry sometimes, it is definately easier to pocket carry than the Ruger, I have some speedloaders I carry as well when using this gun. In the summer I have dropped the little J frame in some cargo shorts and it really isn't much of a bother, and doesn't imprint much.
I agree with what some others have said about imprinting, I think most people are in their own little world and the last thing they are looking at is if some guy has a funny bulge in his trousers. ;D
Greg58
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Hey Rob,
How about a CZ 2075? I've never shot one, but I've held one in a store and they are TINY. IIRC they're either ambidextrous or your can switch the safety to the opposite side. From what I've heard the polymer framed ones had problems, but they've discontinued those and only offer the alloy frames now. Yes, I know I'm a biased CZ nut, but they just feel right in my hand. I carry a full size CZ and they conceal very well because they're so thin. I don't know if there's a double stack out there that's thinner.
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRuAXhl5Wa1bv-QbEUPC2q4ZWFs4IQuSr68bSfCuBnYguIH6eKJPA)
Edit: Never mind, I was thinking of the CZ85, looks like the 2075 isn't ambi. Can't you just start using the correct hand like the rest of us?
:D
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The way things are going lately I recommend a Glock 21 and 2 spare mags
I'm swapping out the kydex again on my comp-tac holster to hold my glock over my kahr now. I think 13 rounds of .40 is a better option than 8 rounds of 9mm... Too many crazies in this world
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The Walther PPS really isn't what I would call a pocket-friendly pistol. I have one. It's a great pistol, but I wouldn't want to try to carry it in a pocket.
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wow! thanks for the ideas and stuff to think about. keep 'em coming.
i know for a fact i need to give IWB another shot, and i plan on doing so with this next purchase.
and BK, my left hand is correct for me. i just think all of you are weird. :D
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I can't believe it hasn't been stated, but have you checked into the LC9? not much bigger than the LCP. Like most subcompacts, it's a hand full. but manageable. Heck, If you were not worried about weight, an old P-64 (9x18mm) with a decent pocket holster would fit the bill, but you might wanna get suspenders. I'm not sure if a Makarov would fit in your pockets, but I love mine and trust it completely. It too is heavy-ish, but reliable and the 9x18 is a formidable round.
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I don't know how ambidextrous they are but have you looked into the M&P Shields, they are new but all the reports say they are easier to handle than most of the rest of the pocket type guns. They have been kind of tough to get but I heard that S&W just shipped some to distributors recently, so some may be showing up in the area.
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If you are locked into pocket carry---either you are going to need huge pockets, or it is going to be 1) tiny, 2) low capacity, 3) painful for recoil unless it is a .22, .25, or .32, and 4) slow to access and use.
Even with huge pockets, you are still going to be stuck with #4.
I respectfully disagree. I pocket carry a Glock 33 in all of my pants. I don't consider the 33's 9+1 capacity to be "high capacity," but that's more than any J Frame, SP101, LCP, LC9, or PF9. The recoil is like shooting a full size 9mm and doesn't kick like a 380 Beretta 84 or nearly as much as a LC9. I can have my hand in my pocket and holding the gun while it's still concealed in case I have to draw.
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Now We Are Getting Into the Heart of the Matter.......
Glock 33 in .357Sig. My Winter Carry handgun. Replaces the Kahr PM9 six months of the year.
Yes to That One. W/CTC Laser, of course.
sfg
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While I have no use for front pocket carry at all. This might be of aid to some.
http://ccwbreakaways.com/ (http://ccwbreakaways.com/)