NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => Laws and Legislation => Topic started by: tstuart34 on November 18, 2013, 10:18:46 AM
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I posted this topic in a hometown forum on another site. Rick asked if he could repost it on here to see what everyone would say. I told him I would do it since I never said Hello after signing up last month. If this isn't the correct place for the topic mods can you please relocate it.
I have been trying to keep up with what is all going on with the 41P stuff and I was on theguntrustlawer blog and was reading some of Goldman's articles. He had a forum letter to send to your CLEO. So I thought what the hell... I knew the answer to the letters question but I figured why not see what he had to say about it. So here is our string of e-mails.
What do you guys think... should I answer back with a simple thank you for responding or should I do some research on facts about NFA related crimes and inform him how I feel about his stance when it comes to NFA weapons? Like I said I was expecting a no but I was not expecting his explanation. It sounds like he is a little more worried about his future political appeal then anything else.
Dear Chief Peschong:
I am a resident of Lincoln and was wanting to purchase a Suppressor. I
understand that the ATF is proposing changing the CLEO certification
and was wondering if you will are going to sign the CLEO certification
as is being proposed by the ATF.
Do you sign Form 4s currently?
If, indeed, you do not sign any Form 4s for the purchase of a noise
suppressor, I must ask whether you anticipate changing that practice
in light of ATF's proposal to change the wording of the certification.
Currently the Form 4 asks you (or another chief law enforcement
officer) to certify that you have "no information indicating that the
receipt or possession of the firearm would place the transferee in
violation of state or local law or that the transferee will use the
firearm for other than lawful purposes." ATF proposes to change the
Form 4 so as to request that you (or another chief law enforcement
officer) certify that you have "no information indicating that
possession of the firearm by the transferee would be in violation of
state or local law."
If you do anticipate that you will sign a Form 4 with the revised
certification language, I may well wait to purchase a noise suppressor
until ATF completes the revision.
Thank you in advance for your attention to this matter.
Sincerely,
Trevor Stuart
Response
Jim Peschong
Mr. Stuart, This is not something that I am willing to sign.
Nov 14 (1 day ago)
My response
Jim Peschong
3:59 PM (2 hours ago)
Chief Peschong
Thanks for your response. May I ask why you will not sign the form?
Thanks
Todays Response.
Mr. Stuart,
Unfortunately there has been a lot of carnage as a result of assault rifles and high capacity weapons for several years. This has brought on a lot of focus as to the real purpose for these types of weapons and a large debate as to whether or not there should be more regulation of them. Also, there are always a lot of questions as to how individuals got possession of these weapons. I view “suppressors” to also be an item that will bring a lot of questions into play if one would be used in killing someone or several people. I chose not to become the center of attention by signing such paperwork. I do not know you. I have no idea as to how you plan to use these, store them, secure them, etc. For all I know you may not even believe that if a suppressor was used on a weapon in an active shooter incident you may not see anything wrong with this.
For these reason, I chose not become involved in facilitating your application.
Jim Peschong
Chief of Police
I am also open to suggestions for a response. I don't want to be to witty I am not looking at starting a war but would like to give a good reply!
I would also like to Add I have sent the same letter to Colonel Sankey and Lt. Franks of the State Patrol and Sheriff Wagner through the agencies websites. I have not received reply's from any of the three.
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It disappoints me that he would have such narrow views.
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He is likely opposed to mufflers on cars too, as they may be used on getaway vehicles. :(
Not at all surprised by the answers, but thank you very much for contacting him and posting the responses.
We need to educate him on what the signature means.
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He is likely opposed to mufflers on cars too, as they may be used on getaway vehicles. :(
Not at all surprised by the answers, but thank you very much for contacting him and posting the responses.
We need to educate him on what the signature means.
Well then if that is the case I will open the headers on my mustang ;D
How should I go about educating him? I am doing a lot of reading and I am learning a lot but I am really new to NFA. It seems like he doesn't really care about what his signature means he cares what the media will make his signature look like IF something would ever happen with a NFA item.
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Another question for the group has anyone in Lincoln, Lancaster county or else where in the state (state level signatures) ever been successful in receiving a signature from any of the following people?
Sheriff
Chief of Police (State)
City, county, state DA
State judge
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It seems like he doesn't really care about what his signature means he cares what the media will make his signature look like IF something would ever happen with a NFA item.
Bingo.
Solution: Make the costs (political and public eye) of being not willing to sign, outweigh the incredibly minute risks in signing. Target sheriffs (because they are directly elected) with "covert" letter and email campaigns, indicating you will take steps to challenge their position by supporting and encouraging others to support their opponents in the next election cycle. This is both an attempt to threaten their political position as well as actually convince them to change their minds using classic debate points (noise pollution, second amendment, hearing protection)
Why covert? (without the negative connotation) Because an overt campaign with this motivation will attract backlash from the general public, whose knowledge of suppressors comes from "Boondock Saints" and other such less-than-accurate sources. This campaign would need to be kept in farely closed circles, such as on this forum, at gun shows, and other conducive environments.
So what should be done exactly? Well, here is a rough outline:
1.) Is to form a list of all the Sheriffs in Nebraska, and then sort the list by
"Will they sign off? Yes / No / Sometimes / Maybe / Unkown"
1a.) Publish the list. I would be willing to bet the rest of the board would be more than willing to put such a list on the NFOA site.
2.) Use that list to evaluate one-to-three politically vulnerable sheriffs.
2a.) Do they have an opponent in the upcoming election?
2b.) Would their opponent sign off if he/she were elected?
3.) Launch covert campaign against vulnerable targets. The NFOA and NFOA-PAF has some resources to help out with this, including emails and funding, but the biggest one would be YOU the member.
3a.) Help out their opponents, spread the word amongst gun-friendly folks in the target's area about their position, etc.
3b.) Even if you cannot dislodge the current sheriff, you may get him to feel politically threatened enough to quietly change his policy on NFA sign off.
The million dollar question. The NFOA has limited resources in manpower, being 100% volunteer, so:
Who would be willing to work on step number 1?
I, for one, don't have time, and would have severely conflicting interests in this arena, but we could certainly form a committee to coordinate with the BoD and NFOA-PAF to get the ball rolling (assuming they would be on board, but I can't imagine why they wouldn't be)
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2a.) Do they have an opponent in the upcoming election?
2b.) Would their opponent sign off if he/she were elected?
Unfortunately, comrade Peschong is not an elected official. He is assigned by a like minded (read narrow minded) government official...the Mayor.
Fly
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Unfortunately, comrade Peschong is not an elected official. He is assigned by a like minded (read narrow minded) government official...the Mayor.
Fly
I did some looking and Wagner ran unopposed for the last 4 elections.... looks like no one else wants his job? Wagner is up for reelection again this year but no one has stepped up against him. I just sent him another e-mail to his actual e-mail address See if I get anything back now.
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Unfortunately, comrade Peschong is not an elected official. He is assigned by a like minded (read narrow minded) government official...the Mayor.
Fly
*Sigh*
Target sheriffs (because they are directly elected)
I know, please read the post in its entirety.
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I know, please read the post in its entirety.
Well you were obviously typing faster than I could read. Slow down a little! ;D
My bad. :-[
Fly
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Do we have an NFOA member that can run for sheriff, just to get a name on the ballot? Who lives in that area :)
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Wow Wallace that's a hell of a game plan. That is going to take a pretty good group of dedicated people. I don't have the time that is probably needed to make it happen but I would be willing to help as much as I could.
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Do we have an NFOA member that can run for sheriff, just to get a name on the ballot? Who lives in that area :)
I nominate Dan Walz, it's not like he does anything in his spare time anyway... ;)
EDIT: Washington county - Sheriff Mike Robinson - happily signs for NFA items. 8)
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I nominate Dan Walz, it's not like he does anything in his spare time anyway... ;)
EDIT: Washington county - Sheriff Mike Robinson - happily signs for NFA items. 8)
But what I understand Sheriff Robinson can not sign my form since he is not my CLEO...Correct?
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correct. you have to live in Washington County for such luxuries.
i posted on the arfcom thread. i look forward to see you getting other CLEO responses.
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So Sheriff Wagner replied to me very quickly almost immediately with
"As a rule I do not sign Form 4s. I'll have to wait and see the final language of the proposed ATF form 4 CLEO signature line before I give you a definitive answer."
I asked him why he doesn't and I have not got a reply. See what he says
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Do we have an NFOA member that can run for sheriff, just to get a name on the ballot? Who lives in that area :)
Bob Kerrey said he'd do it if he can stay over at your house :P
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Anybody have the email for the head of the state patrol? I cant seem to find his direct email.
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The only County I am aware of in Nebraska that folks cannot get a Form 4 signed is Lancaster County. If there are others, I hope the posts here and on Arfcom will bring that information to light.
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The only County I am aware of in Nebraska that folks cannot get a Form 4 signed is Lancaster County. If there are others, I hope the posts here and on Arfcom will bring that information to light.
Soo.... I think this is pretty much going to be a fight for those of us in Lancaster county.
I had a member on ARFCOM say let it be until after 41P is put into effect. He says instead of every supporter in Lancaster county sending letters and flooding them. He recommended we become a collective group and push after we know what is going to happen with the new ATF rules.
How much support can Lancaster County Muscle?
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Soo.... I think this is pretty much going to be a fight for those of us in Lancaster county.
I had a member on ARFCOM say let it be until after 41P is put into effect. He says instead of every supporter in Lancaster county sending letters and flooding them. He recommended we become a collective group and push after we know what is going to happen with the new ATF rules.
How much support can Lancaster County Muscle?
GoingPostal on ARFCOM is Scott of American Reaper Arms LLC, just FYI... ;)
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GoingPostal on ARFCOM is Scott of American Reaper Arms LLC, just FYI... ;)
Ha well i just sent him a IM on here asking him to give some input. I need a cheat sheet and a meet and greet with everyone on here and there!
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So Sheriff Wagner replied to me very quickly almost immediately with
"As a rule I do not sign Form 4s. I'll have to wait and see the final language of the proposed ATF form 4 CLEO signature line before I give you a definitive answer."
I asked him why he doesn't and I have not got a reply. See what he says
Just a update for anyone interested Sheriff Wagner sent me another e-mail last week.
Trevor,
As an employer who's employees risk their lives on a daily basis, I would not want to do anything that could be used to harm one of my employees or further that risk. I know that sounds 'henny penny the sky is falling', but I can assure you, having to go through a line of duty death is an experience I don't want to have happen again.
Terry Wagner
I understand Sheriff Wagner not wanting to put his employees at risk. I feel horrible every time a criminal injures or kills a LEO. But I also do not accept his reasoning as a very valid answer. His employees are more likely to be injured be by a motor vehicle during a traffic stop then a NFA weapon. It also frustrates me that his office issues our handgun purchase permits which a background check is done and it is decided if we can legally purchase a pistol and use it to purchase other firearms.
For now I am going to go with American Reaper and let things ride out to see what will happen with 41P. His business is going to be affected in some way by this. So I feel his input is very valid and needed.
In the mean time I am going to start a list of all of the eligible signers with contact info for Lancaster County. Once 41P is finalized those who are interested in taking up the fight can join together and create a joint effort to get the best results.
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i will try to join in the fight.
BTW - send in your anti-41P comments soon! i will send mine in next week. you never know when their systems will be down (especially with the holidays)
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This is just one of many possible problems that come from having the mayor's office occupied by a traitor. As the saying goes, a fish rots from the head down. All patriots should do everything in our power to get a loyal American elected mayor. I know that's unlikely in Lincoln, but still worth some effort. I don't know what percent of the citizens of Lincoln actually vote in the Mayoral race, but I bet it's pretty small.
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I do not know you. I have no idea as to how you plan to use these, store them, secure them, etc. For all I know you may not even believe that if a suppressor was used on a weapon in an active shooter incident you may not see anything wrong with this.
...... so he'll sign for people he knows? The Good Old Boy Network rides again.
CLEO NFA sign-off is the same strain of bad Law as "May-Issue" Carry Permits..... and "Trusts" are no better: Special People Can, and Proles Can NOT ..... the whole NFA stinks to High Heaven of Progressive Idiotspeak.
Kill it With Fire.
.... not that we can at this point, but there will come a time when it will be ..... irrelevant ...... when it comes time to rebuild things, remember.
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...... so he'll sign for people he knows? The Good Old Boy Network rides again.
CLEO NFA sign-off is the same strain of bad Law as "May-Issue" Carry Permits..... and "Trusts" are no better: Special People Can, and Proles Can NOT ..... the whole NFA stinks to High Heaven of Progressive Idiotspeak.
Sometimes the term "special need" is used. According to the Dictionary of Liberal Doublespeak, this is the definition of "special need:" 1. Having some sort of a connection to the one assessing the need, i.e., family, friend, associate, financial patron, lodge member...
You are correct about the good old boy network. Very often throughout human history those in charge decided who could bear arms and who could not, and those who could dominated those who could not. America is different in that regard. But people like certain piece-of-trash wannabe despots make it clear that they would make it like that here and now if they could, and they will do everything in their power to make it that way as much as they can. They are the reason the 2nd Amendment was written in the first place. The fact that scum like that hold power because of an electoral process shows why the kind of freedom we have in America today is so rare historically. And it shows how easily it can be lost.
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This is just one of many possible problems that come from having the mayor's office occupied by a traitor. As the saying goes, a fish rots from the head down. All patriots should do everything in our power to get a loyal American elected mayor. I know that's unlikely in Lincoln, but still worth some effort. I don't know what percent of the citizens of Lincoln actually vote in the Mayoral race, but I bet it's pretty small.
To be honest I am not a very political person in general and some of that has to do with my age and the fact I was not raised in a political house. I am not going to say that I vote in the Mayoral races because I haven't since I have became of age to vote. Is this a issue...Yes but my point of view has always been I am severally out numbered with the mass majority of Lincoln voting population. So I have chosen not to waste my time. I will however start showing more interest in my community.
I have just got into guns heavily the last couple of years and NFA stuff in the last few months. So I am not really knowledgeable about how our previous Chief of Police have felt about NFA weapons? Is this something that has just been pasted down from Chief to Chief? Or is it something that he truly has a opinion on?
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...... so he'll sign for people he knows? The Good Old Boy Network rides again.
CLEO NFA sign-off is the same strain of bad Law as "May-Issue" Carry Permits..... and "Trusts" are no better: Special People Can, and Proles Can NOT ..... the whole NFA stinks to High Heaven of Progressive Idiotspeak.
Kill it With Fire.
.... not that we can at this point, but there will come a time when it will be ..... irrelevant ...... when it comes time to rebuild things, remember.
I don't know if he will sign off on people he knows. Honestly I don't think his club would be into NFA toys. I'm sure no one in his club has a evil assault rifle. :o
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I don't know if he will sign off on people he knows. Honestly I don't think his club would be into NFA toys. I'm sure no one in his club has a evil assault rifle. :o
Heavens to Betsy, no! The Senator that looks like a ghoul from California says they are dangerous, and therefore I do not need one.
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Is there no legal recourse?
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Is there no legal recourse?
For what? Not signig?
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Quote from: hangarflying on Today at 09:58:25 AM
Is there no legal recourse?
For what? Not signig?
Certainly seems plausible. By refusing to sign is that infringing upon a persons 2nd Amendment rights?
Let's look at what the CLEO signature is suppose to identify. It is suppose to verify two things.
1. ) I have no information indicating that the transferee will use the firearm or device described on this application for other than lawful purposes.
2. ) I have no information that the receipt or possession of the firearm or device described in item 4 would be place the transferee in violation of State or local law.
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Interesting idea, an individual suing the CLEO for a civil rights violation because they did not sign even though there was no information that the transferee would use the firearm unlawfully or there would be any law violation from the possession. HMMMM......
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i've been thinking about this approach. but we should see how ATF 41P plays out.
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Interesting idea, an individual suing the CLEO for a civil rights violation because they did not sign even though there was no information that the transferee would use the firearm unlawfully or there would be any law violation from the possession. HMMMM......
I thought someone had tried this before and didn't get anywhere? Seems like I remember there being precedent.
It would be cool to team up with the SAF and lay the smack down on Peshong, though.
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Certainly seems plausible. By refusing to sign is that infringing upon a persons 2nd Amendment rights?
Let's look at what the CLEO signature is suppose to identify. It is suppose to verify two things.
1. ) I have no information indicating that the transferee will use the firearm or device described on this application for other than lawful purposes.
2. ) I have no information that the receipt or possession of the firearm or device described in item 4 would be place the transferee in violation of State or local law
That was a commit he made... he did knot know what i was going to do with the weapon. He has no reason to think that i am going to do anything unlawfully. To me it seems a hard point to fight in court. Since he has no information on the purpose of the weapon he does not know if it is for lawful or unlawful use.
Honestly i think the best way to get him is to find some people that he did sign for and get him on the fact he is Discriminating.
I dont know if that will even fly... you guys have been involved in plenty of legal suits and would have a better idea then i do.
Honestly i am with Robert right now. Lets see what happrnds with 41p and then join together and focus thw effort when it is needed.
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So last night I decided since everyone else was asleep and I had some uninterrupted quiet time I would start to work on a list of officials who could sign off on NFA forms. This list is some what specific for Lincoln and Lancaster County. But the state level Judges and State Police Chief will be the same for everyone.
So my List includes
Local PD
County Sheriff
State Police
City Attorney
County Attorney
State District Attorney
Lancaster County Judges (Total of 8)
State Court of Appeals Judges (Total of 5)
State Supreme Court Judges (Total of 7)
Once I get this Spread sheet fully filled in and formatted I will post it.
Does anyone know if I can send this list to the AFT and make sure that all of the people listed are approved signers? I don't want to put out any false info on this.
Also what does everyone think about sending out a generic letter to all of the unknown signers to find out if they will currently sign or choose not to? Just a simple yes or no with a return envelope to make it as simple as possible for them.
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Also what does everyone think about sending out a generic letter to all of the unknown signers to find out if they will currently sign or choose not to? Just a simple yes or no with a return envelope to make it as simple as possible for them.
i would help, but i kind of want to see what the ATF does first. what do you think? should we wait 6 or so more months, just in case they do nothing?
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I am torn on to set back and wait or send out some letters. A big part of me wants to send out letters. Make it very simple and easy for them and do not bring up anything to do with 41P. This should not be a firestorm of letters just one very simple letter.
It should ask them if they will endorse a form for a sound suppressor, sort barreled rifle/shotgun, or any other type of National Firearm Weapon. Give them a short explanation what the purpose of their endorsement.
Thank them for their response. Ask them to sign below and return it in the preaddressed envelope.
Give them 3 boxes to check
1. Yes I will sign
2. No I will not sign
3. I need more info on NFA
Their Signature
I think this could be a very helpful thing for people in our area. Maybe someone does not want to create a Trust for NFA items. This may give them information that they need to get what they want. It is a little bit of work but to me I think it is some good info to have in our back pocket.
If anyone thinks I should sit down and shut up let me know. I am not trying to rock the boat just gathering information.
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it sounds like a good experiment. i wonder what other members think about sending a simple letter out.
tstuart, maybe work on a form letter so it can give us all a better idea of what you would send. i wonder it it would help if you include a copy of an empty form 4?
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So this is what I wrote up this morning. This is a draft so I did not do a lot of editing.... I am engineer not a writer so take it easy on me. ;D.
I referenced form4 but do you think I should add form1 also? I want to keep this under a page. Also I left out machinegun.... I don't want to scare anyone.
Dear Fill In:
I am doing some research on behalf of Nebraska Firearm owners and more specify those in the city of Lincoln and Lancaster County. I am researching a list of approved law enforcement and judicial persons that can endorse a National Firearms Act (NFA) transfer form commonly called a Form4. A Form4 is used when a person is requesting to take possession of a class 2 firearm such as a sound suppressor, short barreled rifle/shotgun or any other NFA listed weapon. The requestor must fill out the Form4 have it endorsed by an approved signee and pay a $200 dollar special tax.
If you are not familiar with NFA protocols you might wonder what your endorsement means. The regulation states that you and your office have the capabilities to determine that there is “no information indicating that the transferee will use the firearm or device described on this application for other than lawful purposes", and "no information that the receipt or possession of the firearm or device...would place the transferee in violation of State or local law".
Below are 3 lines for your response and a line for your signature. Can you please select the box with your position on endorsing a Form4? I have also included a addressed return envelope your convince.
______ Yes, I will sign a Form4
______ No, I will not sign a Form4
______ Undecided
________________________________ Signature
If you would like more information on this matter please feel free on contact me I will do my best to supply you with any information that you might need.
Regards,
You’re Info
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Perhaps a section offering them the opportunity to explain the option they chose? Or simply a line requesting an explanation?
And yes, Grammar Nazi was held in check ;D
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Perhaps a section offering them the opportunity to explain the option they chose? Or simply a line requesting an explanation?
And yes, Grammar Nazi was held in check ;D
So you think this is a good thing to send out right now GSD?
I can add a line for why. I was trying to keep it simple but why would be a good thing to know.
Thanks for holding back I will send you a copy and let you tear it apart later on. I have always been a numbers not letters guy and never could get the grammar thing.... :-[
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thats a good start, however, when you mention $200, it kind of sounds like they are paying it. maybe say ".... and a $200 special tax paid by the requestor." and i agree with an explanation part.
i wonder how many you would get back (if any).
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thats a good start, however, when you mention $200, it kind of sounds like they are paying it. maybe say ".... and a $200 special tax paid by the requestor." and i agree with an explanation part.
i wonder how many you would get back (if any).
Good Point I added the requestor and I added if no why and a long line.
I was doing some reading and we can vote the supreme court judges out of office when they come up for retention election. I am not sure about the court of appeals. But I think that they are directly affected based on the supreme court if I understand it right.
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Don't send it out, allow more members to weigh in.
I'm a grammar guru. The posts on Facebook occasionally elevate my blood pressure.
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any other NFA listed weapon
Consider changing the word "weapon" to "device" or "firearm". The word 'device' or 'firearm' is used elsewhere in the text as well as in the section you have quoted.
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Consider changing the word "weapon" to "device" or "firearm". The word 'device' or 'firearm' is used elsewhere in the text as well as in the section you have quoted.
I changed it to firearm. Device kind of makes me think of IED.
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Anyone else have any commits?
I was thinking about sending them out after the first of the year. Let everyone get fat and happy over the holidays!
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Here is a revised version with my edits:
Dear PUBLICOFFICIALNAME:
I am doing some research on behalf of myself and other Nebraska firearm owners, especially those in the city of Lincoln and elsewhere in Lancaster County. I am compiling a list of approved law enforcement officials who can provide a signature to complete the "Chief Law Enforcement Official" (CLEO) certification requirement necessary to submit a National Firearms Act (NFA) application to make or register an item regulated by the NFA. These applications are required under the 1934 federal law and related regulations for the making of NFA items by people who are not licensed manufacturers, as well as for the transfer of such items to or from non-licensees. The majority of applications to make or transfer NFA items are related to transactions involving firearms silencers, hearing safety devices which diminish the audible report of a firearm and make it more safe for the user, for observers, and for others who may be within earshot.
If you are not familiar with the NFA process you might wonder what your certification is meant to certify. The relevant federal regulation provides that these applications must include a certification by a CLEO that the official has “no information indicating that the transferee will use the firearm or device described on this application for other than lawful purposes," and "no information that the receipt or possession of the firearm or device... would place the transferee in violation of State or local law."
Please understand that these transactions requiring a CLEO certification are subject to an extensive and rigorous application process which includes fingerprint-based background checks, submission of photographs of the applicant, and other information about both the applicant and the item that is the subject of the application.
Below are three choices from which to select your response and a line for your signature. Can you please select the box indicating your position on whether or not you are willing to provide this certification when appropriate per the standard set out in the language described above? I have also included a self-addressed, stamped return envelope for your convenience.
______ Yes, I will sign NFA applications.
______ No, I will not sign NFA applications.
______ Undecided
________________________________ Signature
If you would like more information on this matter please feel free to contact me, and I will do my best to supply you with any information that you might need. Thank you for your time and attention to this matter, and thank you in advance for working to protect the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens in your jurisdiction.
Best regards,
SENDER NAME
SENDER ADDRESS
SENDER PHONE NUMBER
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Here is a revised version with my edits:
The only thing I might see in this revision is changing silencers to suppressors, just following the change that the movement has been trying to do to the language. Obviously they do not silence the firearm they only suppress or reduce the sound.
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The only thing I might see in this revision is changing silencers to suppressors, just following the change that the movement has been trying to do to the language. Obviously they do not silence the firearm they only suppress or reduce the sound.
The legal terms of art used both in the National Firearms Act and in the federal regulations are "firearm silencer" and "firearm muffler."
The word "suppressor" introduces an ambiguity, since firearms often employ flash suppressors. I think the word "silencer" is more correct from a legal point of view, and it is less likely to lead to confusion for the reader.
See http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/importation-verification/firearms-verification-nfa-silencer.html (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/importation-verification/firearms-verification-nfa-silencer.html)
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Thank you very much Citizen! You took my ramble of a letter and turned it into very nicely wrote letter.
A question for you.... Do you know what judges can sign? Or do you know if I can send the list to the ATF for there verification?
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Thanks for working on this, guys.
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Just a thought here.....
The Attorney General (Jon Bruning) is the CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER of the state of Nebraska. Mr. Bruning has been very friendly to firearms owners.
With his current health issue and the holidays... now is probably not the time to contact him.... But maybe sometime after the first of the year?
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...... I chose not to become the center of attention by signing such paperwork. I do not know you. I have no idea as to how you plan to use these, store them, secure them, etc. For all I know you may not even believe that if a suppressor was used on a weapon in an active shooter incident you may not see anything wrong with this.
The Old Boy Network Strikes Again ........ "I do not know you. " ...Betchta he'd sign off on his buddy's kid's (thug) boyfriend, though- he "knows" him..... "Equality Before The Law" is writ in stone on the side of the Capitol building ..... down here on Earth? Not so much.....
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Just a thought here.....
The Attorney General (Jon Bruning) is the CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER of the state of Nebraska. Mr. Bruning has been very friendly to firearms owners.
With his current health issue and the holidays... now is probably not the time to contact him.... But maybe sometime after the first of the year?
I think we need to pursue this.
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I think we need to pursue this.
I agree we need to move forward with this. We can discuss how to proceed next week in the board meeting.
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I'm no english composition teacher, but more safe / safer.....
then maybe at the end say PS, its for our children
ok that part was a joke
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The Old Boy Network Strikes Again ........ "I do not know you. " ...Betchta he'd sign off on his buddy's kid's (thug) boyfriend, though- he "knows" him..... "Equality Before The Law" is writ in stone on the side of the Capitol building ..... down here on Earth? Not so much.....
I was talking to a guy one day about NFA stuff and he said the sheriff signed off on a form for a AOW for him. He said it was quiet some time ago but he did sign it. I don't think this guys was part of the old boys network but I do think that their rules have changed...
I think we need to pursue this.
I have been patiently sitting back waiting until the "June" date. So we can see what will happen.
AmericanReaper was working on something but did not give any details. He did not want to push anything until after the ATF released there info.
I would be willing to continue to work on this. I already started a list of judges but haven't really done anything with it.
I started all of this because timing is was not right for me to get into the NFA hobby which I still want to and the timing is not any better right now. By the time I am ready the ATF could have everything all screwed up. I would like to make sure that I have avenues to start this hobby when I am ready!
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I'm no english composition teacher, but more safe / safer.....
then maybe at the end say PS, its for our children
ok that part was a joke
If you were reading my letter my grammar and overall English sucks! CitizenClarks letter is very well written and sounds 10x better then mine. ;D
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Tomorrow is the beginning of April(duh) approximately 2 mounts away from when it was expected that the ATF would release a ruling on 41P. So I did a little Google search to see if I could come up with any updates. One of the first hits was a mid January post from the American Silencer Association. It sounds like the efforts of about 8500 people need to be answered.
http://americansilencerassociation.com/an-update-on-41p/ (http://americansilencerassociation.com/an-update-on-41p/)
An Update on 41P
Written by ASA on January 15, 2014 - Comments
On January 14th, the Board of the American Silencer Association met with the leadership of the NFA Branch of the ATF. The meeting was cordial and productive, with the focus of the conversation centered on ATF 41P. After SHOT Show, we will post a full debrief of the meeting. For now, we would like to give you a brief update.
In all, there were 9,504 comments received on the Federal Register. Of those, around 1,000 were disqualified for vulgarity, anonymity, or non-applicability. As you know, the overwhelming majority of comments were in opposition to the proposed CLEO signoff requirement. The ASA comment can be viewed here: ASA Comment
The standard timeframe for a final ruling is generally six months after the close of the comment period. However, because of the overwhelming amount of comments submitted, the final ruling will likely take at least a year to be issued. This is because each qualified comment must be responded to by the ATF in writing. With nearly 8,500 qualified comments, this will take quite some time.
After the final ruling is issued, there are generally 60 days before implementation. Until the ruling is released, we will not know if forms that are already in the transfer process will be exempt from the proposed requirements. However, if history is an example, it is likely that all forms received by the ATF prior to the implementation of the final regulation will be exempt.
The ASA is proud to represent this industry, and proud to have your support. Were it not for your comments, the CLEO signoff would have easily passed. Your efforts have made the administration think twice about requiring the antiquated and unnecessary signoff requirements for all transfers. The ASA will continue to work to ensure that it is removed. With your help, we will succeed!
Can the ATF timeline be trusted?
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I haven't been as active on these forums as I was because some folks (none on this string) have rubbed me the wrong way. However, I check in from time to time and find this topic of keen interest as I have been considering a muffler. The cost is what has kept me from pursuing it, but now I see, as a resident in Lancaster County, that there were more hoops to jump through than I knew. I really had no idea how Peshong felt but WOW is he drinking the Piers Morgan KoolAid!?. I am very frustrated by this and wonder what I could do. Anyone want to tell me what I could do to help this situation?
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I'm glad this topic brought you out of the wood work. Right now this subject is really setting idle. No one is working on anything at least working on anything that they are willing to talk about in forums. I have a list made of all of the CLEO that can sign NFA forums for us. As of right now 41p doesn't matter you can still get NFA toys under trusts but if the ATF decides that they need to change policy suddenly we are screwed in Lancaster county. RL put this topic into the last board of director meeting and they talked about possibly pushing for legislation next year like Kansas has and going and informing people what there endorsement really means. But my question is how do we know who to target of we send our questionnaires to these people... so right now.... sit back and relax
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Any updates on this, ( I mean the 41P proposal, I know there is now a bill in the Legislature regarding CLEO signoff)?
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Is Lincoln in a different state? I was under the impression the County Sheriff is the Chief Law Enforcement Officer in any county in Nebraska.
Does Lancaster County have a law or ordinance superseding the Sheriff's authority for Lincoln?
Out here where the sun sets on the State, it is the County Sheriff even in towns with a local police force. Is there a population threshold?
What's the deal?
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there are several people who can act as a CLEO for NFA paperwork. in Lancaster county, everyone says no. that is why the NFA Shall sign bill in the Legislature would be great if it would pass... and 41P goes away.