NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => Laws and Legislation => Topic started by: blind_hunter on November 14, 2015, 03:35:19 PM
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Heard a bunch of duck blinds got checked by wardens last week. Wasn't there personally, but it got me thinking because I usually CCW while hunting.
I know that I would have to declare to the wardens (officers) that I was carrying...my question is whether there are any law or game regulation that prohibits carrying while hunting.
Appreciate any feedback.
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you cannot CCW while archery hunting. i would like to see that part of the law change but the G&P doesn't seem to want to change it. i think they are afraid that people will use their archery permit to shoot a deer with a pistol, which sounds pretty silly.
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you cannot CCW while archery hunting. i would like to see that part of the law change but the G&P doesn't seem to want to change it. i think they are afraid that people will use their archery permit to shoot a deer with a pistol, which sounds pretty silly.
They will do it anyway.
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They will do it anyway.
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Yep.
I wonder if you can get fined if you are carrying a handgun that holds more than 6 rounds while rifle hunting, even if you aren't using it to hunt.
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Yep.
I wonder if you can get fined if you are carrying a handgun that holds more than 6 rounds while rifle hunting, even if you aren't using it to hunt.
NO
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NO
Why do you say no? The regs state "Semi-automatic firearms capable of holding more than six cartridges are illegal" There is no distinction between rifle or pistol. ANY semi-automatic firearm is not allowed to be capable of holding more than 6 rounds violates the reg, whether a rifle or pistol.
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I always cover my bases. During deer season, I carry a S&W .357 loaded with deer dropping capable rounds. It's for SD or mercy shot.
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Can someone link to a source for the 'no CCW during archery season' rule?
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Why do you say no? The regs state "Semi-automatic firearms capable of holding more than six cartridges are illegal" There is no distinction between rifle or pistol. ANY semi-automatic firearm is not allowed to be capable of holding more than 6 rounds violates the reg, whether a rifle or pistol.
Bud there is a little quirk to that reg.
I can legally hunt coyotes and other small game with centerfire handgun or rifle as long as I have a firearm deer tag for that unit and as far as I know the magazine restriction only applies to weapons that are considered deer legal by game and parks regulations.
During any firearm deer season which permits hunting deer with rifles using centerfire cartridges, wild animals other than deer may be hunted only with a shotgun, .22 rimfire rifle, .22 rimfire handgun, or a smaller caliber rimfire rifle or handgun. This does not apply to the statewide muzzleloader season or to areas outside late firearm season unit boundaries. Hunters with valid (unfilled) firearm deer permits may hunt other animals with a centerfire rifle or centerfire handgun during the November firearm deer season in the management unit for which their deer permit is valid.
Rifle 22 caliber and above, 900 ft. lbs. of energy at 100
Handgun must deliver 400 ft. lbs of energy at 50 yards.
So I am carrying a 25.06 for deer, and a Glock 26 9mm for other critters or PD. The 25.06 is deer legal by definition. The Glock 26 in 9mm is not, but it and the magazine capacity are legal for all other small game hunting except birds and fowl.
I have a valid deer permit and firearm.
I have a valid small game hunting license with habitat stamp.
I have a concealed handgun not legal for deer, but legal for other game by regs.
I have a valid CHP for carrying the concealed handgun.
What law have I broken?
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Can someone link to a source for the 'no CCW during archery season' rule?
Title 163 chapter 4
001.01B5 to hunt antelope or deer, under
authority of an archery permit while in
possession of, or having under control, any
firearm, or to hunt antelope or deer under
authority of a muzzleloader permit while in
possession of, or having under control, any
breech-loading firearm, except that this shall
not prohibit carrying a firearm within the
enclosed portion of a vehicle.
http://www.sos.ne.gov/rules-and-regs/regsearch/Rules/Game_and_Parks_Commission/Title-163/Chapter-4.pdf (http://www.sos.ne.gov/rules-and-regs/regsearch/Rules/Game_and_Parks_Commission/Title-163/Chapter-4.pdf)
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Bud there is a little quirk to that reg.
I can legally hunt coyotes and other small game with centerfire handgun or rifle as long as I have a firearm deer tag for that unit and as far as I know the magazine restriction only applies to weapons that are considered deer legal by game and parks regulations.
During any firearm deer season which permits hunting deer with rifles using centerfire cartridges, wild animals other than deer may be hunted only with a shotgun, .22 rimfire rifle, .22 rimfire handgun, or a smaller caliber rimfire rifle or handgun. This does not apply to the statewide muzzleloader season or to areas outside late firearm season unit boundaries. Hunters with valid (unfilled) firearm deer permits may hunt other animals with a centerfire rifle or centerfire handgun during the November firearm deer season in the management unit for which their deer permit is valid.
Rifle 22 caliber and above, 900 ft. lbs. of energy at 100
Handgun must deliver 400 ft. lbs of energy at 50 yards.
So I am carrying a 25.06 for deer, and a Glock 26 9mm for other critters or PD. The 25.06 is deer legal by definition. The Glock 26 in 9mm is not, but it and the magazine capacity are legal for all other small game hunting except birds and fowl.
I have a valid deer permit and firearm.
I have a valid small game hunting license with habitat stamp.
I have a concealed handgun not legal for deer, but legal for other game by regs.
I have a valid CHP for carrying the concealed handgun.
What law have I broken?
I'm aware of the quirk...bud. But the poster who asked the question stated he was hunting deer. Had he said he was hunting other wild game, then that quirk/loophole would apply, but he didn't. If he is specifically hunting deer, then the pistol holding more than 6 rounds is not allowed. Also, if you are hunting deer, you are hunting deer. Just because you may also shoot another animal if the opportunity presents is not how CO's look at it. The reg is designed to allow hunting of other species INSTEAD of deer during the deer season, not deer and other game simultaneously. It allows you as a coyote hunter to go hunt coyotes during the deer season. That is why you must possess an unfilled tag if hunting with a "deer legal" firearm. As I got this info from a CO, I'll trust his info.
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For the record, my .357 sig is legal for deer with Hornady 147 grain boolits having 422 ft/lbs at 50 yards with a 4 inch barrel. The question is, why would I be carrying a rifle if that is what I am using to hunt? I think you would get a ticket and have to prove your innocence in court.
If you have a 9mm, pretty hard to say you are hunting deer with a weapon outside of legal performance, but who knows?
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In another thread we all discussed the ft/lbs requirements. I made a call to the game and parks about it. I spoke with a gentalman about it and he said to his knowledge they had no way to check or would it be brought up unless you are obviously using something that was under the rule like a 22lr.
I am more then willing to call about this on Monday for the group but I feel like g/p will say they same on this... I think the autittude of the person has a lot to do with it also. Don't be a jerk and you will not have a issue.
I will make a phone call
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Actually its not the foot lbs. Its the total absurdity that a game warden would even think of ticketing me for a legal CCW handgun just because its a semi-auto.
Under that reading of the rule I could legally carry a S&W or Taurus 8 shot 357 Mag and be totally legal as its not a semi-auto, also I could legally use a 10 round magazine in a 7600 pump rifle since it is not a semi-auto.
The rule he cited has always been for rifles. I have carried a 1911 for the last 30 years out deer hunting and have never had a problem or a question about it.
But if the new G & P wants to nit pick, I will take the ticket and fight it. Or I will actually just buy an 8 shot revolver and they cant touch me since the law states only semi-auto. And I will renew my boycott of anything G&P gets 1 cent from.
Totally asinine interpretation of the law.
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A typical stupid gun control law.
If it is unlawful to use a certain firearm for certain hunting, then that is enough to limit use of those firearms.
That should not limit carry of defensive firearms. It is enough to specify lawful use for hunting without limit of possession. A hunter's right to self defense should not be limited by an activity (hunting) as long as an incorrect firearm is not being used (which would be the unlawful part).
Appears a "gun controller" slipped in some wording to stick it to the gun people and allowed as a concession to setting the hunting law. It is annoying that politicians are slipping in these subtle blocks to Constitutional Right.
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If you want the regulation changed, contact your district rep on the Game & Parks Commission.
http://www.outdoornebraska.ne.gov/admin/commission/divisions.asp (http://www.outdoornebraska.ne.gov/admin/commission/divisions.asp)
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Received an email response from Duane Arp at game and parks, asst. supervisor of Law Enforcement.
You make reference: “even if the gun is not used for hunting”….? I’m not sure how this can be determined in most instances.
Yup, a conservation officer and his bosses cant determine that a totally concealed/holstered weapon while carrying a loaded deer rifle in the open at the same time, that the pistol isn't being used for hunting.
WTF over
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Received an email response from Duane Arp at game and parks, asst. supervisor of Law Enforcement.
You make reference: “even if the gun is not used for hunting”….? I’m not sure how this can be determined in most instances.
Yup, a conservation officer and his bosses cant determine that a totally concealed/holstered weapon while carrying a loaded deer rifle in the open at the same time, that the pistol isn't being used for hunting.
WTF over
perfect example on why it needs to go. maybe the NFOA needs a state senator to rattle the cages and get a bill introduced to simplify and streamline things.
besides people who have CCW, are not the ones that will break the law (ie using a pistol to shoot a deer on an archery tag).
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If you want the regulation changed, contact your district rep on the Game & Parks Commission.
http://www.outdoornebraska.ne.gov/admin/commission/divisions.asp (http://www.outdoornebraska.ne.gov/admin/commission/divisions.asp)
Yep.
At a minimum, I would like to see "no more than x rounds in the weapon" instead of "capable of". It can be a pain in the arse to find a mag or block one. People that want to break the law will regardless.
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Received an email response from Duane Arp at game and parks, asst. supervisor of Law Enforcement.
You make reference: “even if the gun is not used for hunting”….? I’m not sure how this can be determined in most instances.
Yup, a conservation officer and his bosses cant determine that a totally concealed/holstered weapon while carrying a loaded deer rifle in the open at the same time, that the pistol isn't being used for hunting.
WTF over
So, bud, It appears your response of "no" to the OP was incorrect as I said, huh?
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perfect example on why it needs to go. maybe the NFOA needs a state senator to rattle the cages and get a bill introduced to simplify and streamline things.
besides people who have CCW, are not the ones that will break the law (ie using a pistol to shoot a deer on an archery tag).
I'll second that.
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Then, there is the no carrying while operating a snow mobile!?!?
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Then, there is the no carrying while operating a snow mobile!?!?
Good question. I was told by a CO that since that rule is under the game laws that it only applies if engaged in hunting activities.
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Then, there is the no carrying while operating a snow mobile!?!?
Good question. I was told by a CO that since that rule is under the game laws that it only applies if engaged in hunting activities.
That provision is not in the Game Law, it is in the Rules of the Road at section 60-6,342. And, the first violation is a Class III misdemeanor (60-6,343).
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section 60-6,342
Ok, so he was wrong about the exact section it falls under...but that still doesn't negate the fact that one of the elements of the crime is that you must be engaged in hunting. Read the title of the offense. If you are not engaged in hunting, you are not violating this section. Also, Chapter 60 is not "Rules of the Road", it is the motor vehicle section.
60-6,342. Snowmobiles; carrying firearms; hunting; unlawful.
It shall be unlawful for any person to shoot, take, hunt, or kill or attempt to shoot, take, hunt, or kill any wild animal or bird from or with a snowmobile or for any person to carry or possess any shotgun or rimfire rifle while operating or riding on a snowmobile, or for any person to carry or possess any firearm, bow and arrow, or other projectile device on a snowmobile unless such bow and arrow or projectile device is enclosed in a car carrying case or such firearm is unloaded and enclosed in a carrying case.
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Yes, but one of the elements of the crime is that you are engaged in hunting. Read the title of the offense. If you are not engaged in hunting, you are not violating this section.
Courts won't see it that way. The clauses are separate.
60-6,342. Snowmobiles; carrying firearms; hunting; unlawful.
It shall be unlawful for any person to shoot, take, hunt, or kill or attempt to shoot, take, hunt, or kill any wild animal or bird from or with a snowmobile or for any person to carry or possess any shotgun or rimfire rifle while operating or riding on a snowmobile, or for any person to carry or possess any firearm, bow and arrow, or other projectile device on a snowmobile unless such bow and arrow or projectile device is enclosed in a car carrying case or such firearm is unloaded and enclosed in a carrying case.
In the bold part above, note the "or." It doesn't say "hunting AND...." it says "or."
Here's what it means:
It shall be unlawful for any person to:
a) shoot, take, hunt, or kill or attempt to shoot, take, hunt, or kill any wild animal or bird from or with a snowmobile,
b) carry or possess any shotgun or rimfire rifle while operating or riding on a snowmobile,
c) carry or possess any firearm, bow and arrow, or other projectile device on a snowmobile unless such bow and arrow or projectile device is enclosed in a car carrying case or such firearm is unloaded and enclosed in a carrying case.
You'll note that "hunting" is only a part of the first one. If you do the second or third (whether hunting or not) the way the law is worded, you are still in trouble. They don't have to prove you had the firearm for hunting purposes. If you have it, you have broken the law.
Whether that is an intelligent law is a different discussion. In a similar fashion, whether that is what the law was originally meant to mean is a different discussion. If you have a firearm on you on a snowmobile and it isn't in a case, you are breaking this particular law.
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Yes, but one of the elements of the crime is that you are engaged in hunting. Read the title of the offense. If you are not engaged in hunting, you are not violating this section.
That's not accurate at all. The title of the offense is not the law, and it does not supply any element of the offense. The title is made by the Revisor of Statutes, not the Legislature. The elements are in the body of the statute.
If you break that statute into three parts, it's easier to understand. Section 60-6,342 makes it unlawful to:
(1) shoot, take, hunt, or kill or attempt to shoot, take, hunt, or kill any wild animal or bird from or with a snowmobile; or
(2) carry or possess any shotgun or rimfire rifle while operating or riding on a snowmobile; or
(3) carry or possess ANY firearm, bow and arrow, or other projectile device on a snowmobile UNLESS such bow and arrow or projectile device is enclosed in a car carrying case or such firearm is unloaded and enclosed in a carrying case.
All three of those things are criminalized by the statute, and the 2nd and 3rd have nothing to do with hunting. The only lawful way to have a firearm on a snowmobile is to have it unloaded and enclosed in a carrying case. It doesn't make any difference whether you are hunting or not.
The conservation officer you talked to might not ticket someone for the offense, but it's definitely possible if he wanted to. Don't expect any other law enforcement officer to read that statute the same as the CO. If you are carrying a concealed handgun on a snowmobile, you are breaking the law, period.
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You beat me to the punch jthhapkido.
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You beat me to the punch jthhapkido.
:)
Great minds think alike, etc, etc...
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Just to fully flesh out the statute:
>No loaded, uncased slingshots
>No loaded, uncased peashooters, either.
(Both are projectile devices.)
I once called NG&P to find out the back story on this particular snowmobile statute, since it's so out of sync with all the other CHP no-carry prohibitions.
Talked to a whole chain of nice folks. Kept getting passed on up, down, and around the chain of inquiry. No one knew the official "why" of this statute. (We can all guess, but I wanted to hear someone say it out loud.)
Finally they sent me to the Been-There-Forever-Senior-Old-Guy-Officer. I posed the question. He thought about it for a good long while.
Then he said, "It's ALWAYS been that way."
I thanked him for the insightful information and then quietly hung up.
Perfect Bureaucratic Closeout: "It's ALWAYS been that way."
sfg
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do they all so have laws about "off road dirt bikes" & 4Wheelers or is it just the snowmobiles ?
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Back in the 70s, coyote pelts were worth a lot of money. As a youngster I remember a lot of guys going out on their lightning-fast ::) 250cc John Deere Spitfires with a .357 revolver in the storage console. They could come back with enough coyotes to pay for a fair portion of their sled.
Usually you'd just chase 'em until they were too pooped to run much and then shoot them. Actually running them over wasn't good for the pelt! I did know one guy who came back home once with a coyote wedged between his skis and fairing that he didn't know was there.
I believe that is the background.
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Then he said, "It's ALWAYS been that way."
Back in the 70s, coyote pelts were worth a lot of money.
The law looks like it was first enacted in 1971, and last amended in 1993.
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It's legal to carry a gun on a snowmobile or on anything else, as per both our state and federal Constitutions. But the law apparently doesn't matter much when those who have no respect for the law have the power to arrest you, extort money from you, and put you in jail. Maybe what we should work on is a law that says this: all government entities, including the state legislature, shall obey the law.
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And it's possible that--on a slow coyote day--maybe a deer or two was taken.
Interestingly enough, there seems to be no prohibition anywhere against shooting from an ATV 4-wheeler.
Or a dirt bike, for that matter.
So....watch out for that top strand of bob-wire. It'll lop a head quicker than Charlie Cong's thinsteel crossroads clothesline.
sfg