NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => General Firearm Discussion => Topic started by: OnTheFly on December 20, 2011, 11:11:40 PM
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Greetings all,
I am looking at gun safes at Orscheln and Tractor Supply. Comparable products...Cannon, Liberty, and Winchester.
20 cubic foot/22-24 long guns
http://www.orschelnfarmhome.com/gun-safe-20-cubic-ft-gloss-black/ctl16754/cp58278/si5182864/cl1/ (http://www.orschelnfarmhome.com/gun-safe-20-cubic-ft-gloss-black/ctl16754/cp58278/si5182864/cl1/)
http://www.tractorsupply.com/winchester-reg-gun-safe-24-gun-capacity-1043297 (http://www.tractorsupply.com/winchester-reg-gun-safe-24-gun-capacity-1043297)
http://www.tractorsupply.com/cannon-safe-model-6028-19-44-cu-ft--1015639 (http://www.tractorsupply.com/cannon-safe-model-6028-19-44-cu-ft--1015639)
Fat Boy Jr./
http://www.orschelnfarmhome.com/fatboy-jr-48-gun-safe/ctl16754/cp58278/si5522650/cl1/ (http://www.orschelnfarmhome.com/fatboy-jr-48-gun-safe/ctl16754/cp58278/si5522650/cl1/)
http://www.tractorsupply.com/cannon-gun-safe-ts6040-60-in-h-36-gun-capacity-3910204 (http://www.tractorsupply.com/cannon-gun-safe-ts6040-60-in-h-36-gun-capacity-3910204)
A few questions...
Does anyone have any advice about mechanical or electronic locks? I've read a few reviews complaining about electronic locks.
Any general comment about the brands sold at these two stores?
If I could, I would drop two or three thousand dollars on a really nice safe, but that is not going to happen unless I win the lottery.
Fly
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i have an el cheapo safe. if i had the money i would get...
1. good amount fireproofing
2. roomy safe. guns multiply.
3. electronic pad and maybe a keyed backup entry
4. heavy and bulky enough that most bad guys would go after my TV's or other things first, since it would be easier to get.
i asked a few questions over at ar15.com a couple of years ago. and from what i was told a crook will break into any safe, its just a matter of time and determination.
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I have a dial lock on mine. Electronic is quicker but if you fat-finger it 3 times in a row you are usually locked out for 15 minutes. Not acceptable to me in a SHTF situation, but that is just my preference.
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Did a lot of research on safes. In a nutshell RobertH is pretty much on target. The following are my findings:
- Don't buys safes from Mexico or foreign countries. Tractor Supply have safes that are made in Mexico. Liberty, Canon and Fort Knox (there may be more but these are the ones I'm most familiar with) are made in U.S.A.
- Fire rating should be longer than how fast the fire dept. can respond to your house + 30 min. just in case they are on another call. And at least 95,000 btu's. The bottom line is to make sure that the interior of the safe stays as cool as possible.
- Locking bolts should be at least 1 1/8 in dia. on all four sides. Some expensive safes have locking bolts on the corners also since that is the weakest part of a safe.
- Hinges should be on the outside (door open wider), a common statement is than the BG's can cut the hinges. Don't think so. First off, the BG time is limited so they need to bring a portable torch or saws all and 2nd the longer throw of bolts and pry guards on the safe will make the BG life harder.
- Should have interior lighting and humidity control.
- Like RobertH said, guns procreate so get a safe 1 and 1/2 times of your long guns.
- The safe should be bolted down (either floor or wall). That way the bad guys can't tip it over for easier access or remove it from the home. Not in the garage. In the basement out of view.
- The better safes have 11 gauge sheet metal or thicker ( lower number is thicker)
- Electronic vs Dial - mixed emotions on that one, but get the brand should be Sargent and Greenleaf (they make the best locks).
- Place a "Black Powder Inside" label on the safe even though you don't have any. The BG don't know either.
- Buy the best safe you can afford.
- Have them deliver and install the safe. Might cost a couple hundred more, but to me it's worth it. That way I don't have to visit the back cracker. Not curbside. Good safes weigh 800 lbs +, plus they do that for a living.
Can't think of anything else worth noting.
Bernie
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- Don't buys safes from Mexico or foreign countries. Tractor Supply have safes that are made in Mexico. Liberty, Canon and Fort Knox (there may be more but these are the ones I'm most familiar with) are made in U.S.A.
I'm a little confused on this statement. You say that Tractor Supply has safes that are made in Mexico, but then you say that Cannon is made in the U.S.A. However, Tractor Supply is advertising Cannon safes. What am I not understanding here?
Thanks,
Fly
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OnTheFly, When I was doing the research, Tractor supply was carrying more than one brand of safes, and can't remember the brand but it was clearly marked on the back that is was made in Mexico. Hope this answers your question. Think the smaller ones might be Sentry or Stack-On, but can't swear to it. Can't remember the manufacturer of the bigger safes they had on display.
And remember this was a couple of years ago.
Bernie
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I have a dial lock on mine. Electronic is quicker but if you fat-finger it 3 times in a row you are usually locked out for 15 minutes. Not acceptable to me in a SHTF situation, but that is just my preference.
Just one datapoint among many, but for what it is worth, I've had a Sentry fire safe with electronic keypad for ten years. I have never once been locked out. I have gone through a grand total of three 9v batteries in that time.
If the apocalpyse comes or we descend into a Mad Max type scenario, is this the safe I would pick? No, because it requires batteries to operate. Do I think that it is totally fine for my foreseeable needs in the future? Yes, I do (except that I need more safe space now that my addiction has outgrown my existing safe).
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I have a Liberty Safe I'm satisfied with (bought it a Orschlen's several years ago). It has the dial lock. I've had two small gun boxes with electronic locks that failed... no more electronic locks for me.
All the advice given is good. Cheap = little or no fire protection.
The other point to be re-emphasized is bolt it down.
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I'm a firm believer in diversification ... on many fronts, including gun safes. I would much rather have several smaller safes, potentially in different locations, than I would a single monster of a safe.
YMMV
If you don't want to spend the money on a safe that has its own lighting or if you don't want to go to a lot of trouble putting AC lights in your safe(s), I think I posted on here that I found a battery-powered LED light that includes a magnetic mount. IIRC, I found them at Home Depot. The LED light is quite powerful. You can set it to be motion-activated or turned on manually. After going through batteries pretty quickly on the motion-activated setting, I've switched to manual.
Home Depot Link: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202024426/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053 (http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202024426/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053)
I also like a digital keypad with a keyed lock for backup purposes. Don't keep the key on top of the safe. ;D
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I have a Superior safe made by Champion that I got from Scheels and love it. I opted for the old style mechanical dial for less chance of failure.
If you do buy a safe I read on another forum that golf balls work good to move them. Since mine weighs in at nine hundred and twenty some pounds and I don’t need to move it I’d be interested to hear if this method works. The guy swore by it.
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Decide on the largest gun safe you can afford.
Then save up the money to get one at least half-again as big. ;D
11gauge minimum, outside hinges, S&G lock, bolt it down.
If the specs don't list the metal thickness, it's probably pretty thin.
Ultimate guide to safes: http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_6/46_Safes_andamp__Home_Security.html (http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_6/46_Safes_andamp__Home_Security.html)
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Fly, did u get a safe? What kind did you end up getting?
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Fly, did u get a safe? What kind did you end up getting?
No I have not. I keep going back and forth on the issues I am facing. I want a larger safe as everyone is suggesting. However, I am limited by my basement stairs in both load bearing capacity and dimensions. I have briefly considered having it upstairs or in the garage, but that will defeat several of the purposes. The assembled safes would be great, but they are quite expensive.
I have a temporary part time job providing contract services, so maybe I can spend the money soon.
Fly
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Does anyone have an opinion on putting the safe in an upstairs room? To get the size I want, I will likely have to put it in my bedroom closet due to the basement restrictions. I would have to bolt it down through the wood floors (sub-floor and finished wood). Is this a bad idea or are there extra precautions to take when bolting it down?
Thanks,
Fly
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No I have not. I keep going back and forth on the issues I am facing. I want a larger safe as everyone is suggesting. However, I am limited by my basement stairs in both load bearing capacity and dimensions. I have briefly considered having it upstairs or in the garage, but that will defeat several of the purposes. The assembled safes would be great, but they are quite expensive.
I have a temporary part time job providing contract services, so maybe I can spend the money soon.
Fly
Not EVERYONE is suggesting a larger safe. :D
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Any particular reason you want to bolt it down if in an upstairs closet? Weight and location alone would be deterent enough I would think....
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Here's a good video on Dial Locks vs. Electronic Locks...
Dial Combination Safe Lock vs Digital Electronic Lock with Dye the Safe Guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Afzh4pgh-c#ws)
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Any particular reason you want to bolt it down if in an upstairs closet? Weight and location alone would be deterent enough I would think....
The size and location of the closet would not be enough of a deterrent to removing it from the house. Or, if they had time, turning the safe and laying it on its back to pry it open. A majority of the advise I have read says to bolt it down.
Fly
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Not EVERYONE is suggesting a larger safe. :D
I have read that opinion too. One safe with everything in it takes X minutes to get into. Four safes with your guns spread throughout means 4 times X minutes to get to all of your collection. I'm not getting a HUGE safe. Thinking of a 26-30 gun safe which realistically means it will hold 13-15 long guns. I'm hoping there will be reason in the future to buy another safe. ;D
Fly
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Fly,
What is different about the stairs going up to the bedroom vs the stairs going to the basement? Are they obviously constructed differently?
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I have read that opinion too. One safe with everything in it takes X minutes to get into. Four safes with your guns spread throughout means 4 times X minutes to get to all of your collection. I'm not getting a HUGE safe. Thinking of a 26-30 gun safe which realistically means it will hold 13-15 long guns. I'm hoping there will be reason in the future to buy another safe. ;D
Fly
What potential scenario do you anticipate that would require you to access all of your guns in X minutes vs. X+ minutes? I'm struggling to imagine a scenario where quick access to 12-15 firearms beats even quicker access to 4-8 firearms.
In theory, one could have a safe on each floor of one's home providing access to some firearms, but not all, more quickly than a single safe on one floor.
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Fly,
What is different about the stairs going up to the bedroom vs the stairs going to the basement? Are they obviously constructed differently?
Sorry for the confusion. I live in a ranch house. Stairs to basement. None to bedroom other than the front door and stoop.
Fly
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What potential scenario do you anticipate that would require you to access all of your guns in X minutes vs. X+ minutes? I'm struggling to imagine a scenario where quick access to 12-15 firearms beats even quicker access to 4-8 firearms.
In theory, one could have a safe on each floor of one's home providing access to some firearms, but not all, more quickly than a single safe on one floor.
Maybe I am just lazy and I don't want to open several safes or have to walk too far. ;D
Seriously though, I'm picking up what you are laying down. My only issue is trying to find several places to place 2+ safes. My wife has all her $&*! stuff all over the house so my personal space is limited. I am also thinking about cleaning out her craft room to make it my gun/guy cave, but not sure if that is a war I want to fight right now. It would be an awesome room though. It has cinder block on three of the four walls. I would just need to fortify two basement windows, one traditional (2x4 and gypsum) wall, and a door. A vault door would be cool, but the standard wall would be the weak link and need a lot of modification.
ETA: That would also be a lot of work for a house that we may want to sell in a few years.
Fly
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Fly,
I had similar concerns with getting a ginormous safe down to the basement in the ranch house we live in. After looking at a lot of different possibilities, I ended up getting one of these:
http://www.dakotasafe.com/dakota_interlocxp.html (http://www.dakotasafe.com/dakota_interlocxp.html)
It comes in 4 large cartons and bolts together from the inside. It is also expandable if you need something bigger in the future. My son and I were able to carry the cartons down our steps without hurting ourselves too badly. I bolted it to a concrete wall in the back, and to the concrete floor. If somebody wants to break it open, I'm sure they eventually can, but they will have to work pretty hard to do it. FWIW.
Ghost
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Fly,
I had similar concerns with getting a ginormous safe down to the basement in the ranch house we live in. After looking at a lot of different possibilities, I ended up getting one of these:
http://www.dakotasafe.com/dakota_interlocxp.html (http://www.dakotasafe.com/dakota_interlocxp.html)
It comes in 4 large cartons and bolts together from the inside. It is also expandable if you need something bigger in the future. My son and I were able to carry the cartons down our steps without hurting ourselves too badly. I bolted it to a concrete wall in the back, and to the concrete floor. If somebody wants to break it open, I'm sure they eventually can, but they will have to work pretty hard to do it. FWIW.
Ghost
Thanks Ghost. I have been looking at similar modular safes, if not this same one. They tend to be a little more expensive from what I have seen, but I don't know if I have seen the price on the Dakota. I will look further into it.
Thanks again,
Fly
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Gun Club just got in Browning's Tactical Gun Safe, almost $3000.00 Made in China all over the shipping crate
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Gun Club just got in Browning's Tactical Gun Safe, almost $3000.00 Made in China all over the shipping crate
I am trying my best to avoid that too, but there are not a lot of choices when you remove Chinese and Mexican made safes from consideration. Frustrating to say the least. Frank Zykan had some "Eagle" safes that sounded very good for the money, but he replied to my inquiry and said that they don't have any of them in stock and doesn't expect to get any more.
So my search continues. Which safes ARE American made? I thought someone said Liberty safes were, but I can't confirm that.
Fly
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Stack-on is a U.S. manufacturer. I'm not sure if all of their safes are manufactured in the U.S. though.