NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => General Firearm Discussion => Topic started by: Mudinyeri on January 30, 2012, 10:52:19 AM
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Anyone done anything like this ... or have an interest in doing so?
http://competition-dynamics.com/24-hour-sniper-adventure-challenge-2012/ (http://competition-dynamics.com/24-hour-sniper-adventure-challenge-2012/)
This event is an adventure race involving: land navigation; practical shooting with long-range rifle, carbine, and pistols; fieldcraft; problem solving; and other related tasks.
Two-man teams will be required to navigate at least 30 miles on foot to complete the course. Along the way, there will be a series of tasks to accomplish to gain additional points. These tasks may include: shooting problems with long-range rifle, carbine, and pistols; problem-solving; physical challenges; fieldcraft; communication; target recognition; memory; and other tasks.
Teams must carry all the gear they use to complete land navigation and all tasks, though it may be abandoned at any time. Teams must carry one long-range rifle, one carbine, and two pistols for the entire course. There will be a "packing list" for safety items only. All other gear is left to the discretion of the team based on the task briefing. This information will be posted to this web site far in advance of the match date.
•Match duration: roughly 2 days
•Baseline land navigation of roughly 30 miles
•Bonus land-navigation points additional roughly 6 miles
•Extremely rough high desert terrain
•GPS prohibited for land nav - Required to bring as emergency equipment
•No support crew will be permitted.
•Field shooting challenges include long-range shooting, precision shooting, assault stages, target identification and shoot/no-shoot decisions, and related problems
•Approximate maximum target distances: rifle 1200 yards; carbine 500; pistol 100
•Unknown, various, and non-standard target sizes
•Max long-range rifle caliber .338 LM, minimum 6mm
•Max carbine caliber, .300WSM; max barrel length 20 inches (not including suppressor), minimum caliber .223
•You will not need special gear for technical climbing
•Tests may include basic lock picking, pad locks, combo locks and hand cuffs. Also knots.
•Night vision optics not required and not permitted
•Challenges may be taken in any order in accordance with land nav directions, including whether a challenge is taken during daylight hours
•Almost all targetry will be reactive armor steel plate
•Round count (minimums): Long-range rifle: approx 50; carbine: approx 100; pistol: approx 100.
•Cost: $585 per team.
•Refundable deposit of approx $130 required for issued radio gear. Cash or check at match check-in, full refund upon return of radio.
I might be done at the lock picking! :o
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this sounds really cool, but i think i'd get smoked. seems like a fun challenge though.
lock picking: http://www.itstactical.com/topics/skillcom/lock-picking/ (http://www.itstactical.com/topics/skillcom/lock-picking/)
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The Marine Corps will allow you to do this "for free". Even pay you. Just report to your local recruiting station for more info. Semper Fi.
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The Marine Corps will allow you to do this "for free". Even pay you. Just report to your local recruiting station for more info. Semper Fi.
Not at my age, they won't. :D
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Looks like a ton of fun, doesn't it?
[sigh] I don't have the time. (Or sufficient training!) But I'd love to try it.
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I would be interested though I have no lightweight rifles in one piece at the moment. Have all the other gear and the perfect boots to boot!
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@jth
It does look like a lot of fun.
Do you not have time for training or time to go to the high desert for two days?
I guess if anyone was serious about doing it, we could post up our skillset strengths and weaknesses and see if we could get a match between two people.
Me, I'm really short on the long-range stuff. :D I have a rifle that would probably do the trick but I just got it put together and haven't spent any quality time with it yet. I also have no real lock-picking skills, beyond the basic credit card in the door latch kind of stuff.
@20nickels
I'm good with carbines and with a long-range, precision instrument but need some time behind the trigger. I guess it isn't until July.
I think I have most of the rest of the gear, but might want some lighter-weight boots.
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Just for fun, here are the skillsets/requirements as I see them:
1. Physical fitness (cover 30 miles of rough terrain at 4000-6000 feet elevation in <24 hours)
2. Land navigation using compass and map
3. Long-range shooting
4. Precision shooting (known distance & unknown distance + dope for each)
5. Experience with precision rifle, carbine and pistol
6. Lock picking
7. Knot tying
8. Assault tactics
9. Shoot/no-shoot assessment
10. Target identification ... KIM?
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Hmm, rethinking this. Mebe 10 or 15 Mi. with gear, but 30! Lots of hills it looks like.... In July. Also I don't understand, it says USPSA style rules, will you travel unloaded and have to load at each shooting stage/position? Will an RO be present at every stage to score and make sure procedures are followed? You have to wear hearing protection the whole time?
more info;
http://snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2938090 (http://snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2938090)
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Hmm, rethinking this. Mebe 10 or 15 Mi. with gear, but 30! Lots of hills it looks like.... In July. Also I don't understand, it says USPSA style rules, will you travel unloaded and have to load at each shooting stage/position? Will an RO be present at every stage to score and make sure procedures are followed? You have to wear hearing protection the whole time?
more info;
http://snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2938090 (http://snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2938090)
Yes, 30 miles. Not hills. Mountains. See the mountains in the picture below? That's where the competition will be held.
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/6432541.jpg)
Yes, you travel unloaded. You load at each station. There is a R.O. at each station. Wear eye and hearing protection while shooting.
July will be nice and cool up in those mountains ... especially after the sun goes down. ;D
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Need more gym time. :laugh: Call me when they shorten it.
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Saw something like this on a recent (last 2 or 3 weeks) episode of Shooting Gallery, on the Outdoor Channel...don't know if this is exactly the same, but it sounds very similar. It took place at the NRA's Whittington Center in New Mexico.
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Need more gym time. :laugh: Call me when they shorten it.
They do have shorter versions. But this just sounded like much more fun!
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Does anyone know what hotels you would stay in each night or do we have to arrange those ourselves? I would like to see what restaurants are near the hotels. Maybe some nice French cafes or a gastro pub. Also, I imagine lodging and meals are probably not included for that low of a price.
;-)
Fly
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"Does anyone know what hotels you would stay in each night or do we have to arrange those ourselves? I would like to see what restaurants are near the hotels. Maybe some nice French cafes or a gastro pub"
Dude.....what kind of sniper are you aspiring to be ??? Bugs, dirt and snails :)
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Does anyone know what hotels you would stay in each night or do we have to arrange those ourselves? I would like to see what restaurants are near the hotels. Maybe some nice French cafes or a gastro pub. Also, I imagine lodging and meals are probably not included for that low of a price.
;-)
Fly
It's a 24 hour adventure. You won't need a hotel until afterward. At that point, you probably won't care what the bed is like. :D
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:D couldn't resist;
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:D couldn't resist;
Is it still a sport if you can drink a beer while playing it? :D
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Nobody? :(
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Nobody? :(
Sure...I'm game. But you are going to have to give me a piggy back ride for 20 of the 30 miles. ;D
Fly
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@jth
It does look like a lot of fun.
Do you not have time for training or time to go to the high desert for two days?
I guess if anyone was serious about doing it, we could post up our skillset strengths and weaknesses and see if we could get a match between two people.
Me, I'm really short on the long-range stuff. :D I have a rifle that would probably do the trick but I just got it put together and haven't spent any quality time with it yet. I also have no real lock-picking skills, beyond the basic credit card in the door latch kind of stuff.
@20nickels
I'm good with carbines and with a long-range, precision instrument but need some time behind the trigger. I guess it isn't until July.
I think I have most of the rest of the gear, but might want some lighter-weight boots.
Man, I'd love to do this. But I also don't have the long-range capability/practice. I've got a gun that I trust to 500-600 yards, but I've NEVER shot it past that. Matter of fact, I've never shot at anything farther than 600 yards away. And I don't practice even mid-range stuff like that very often. I only got my precision rifle because I didn't want to use iron sights on bowling pins at 200 yards in the Weeping Water 3-Gun matches! :)
My carbine work (from close-range to mid-range) is pretty good, and my pistol skills are good enough. So I could hold up that end (well, enough to participate, though maybe not enough to keep from embarrassment :) ) but I'd need a long-range partner.
I'd have to get some more gear, though I just got everything I need to build a "Hellcat" ruck. (http://libertytreeblogs.blogspot.com/2011/04/building-hellcat-hybrid-ruck-from-us.html (http://libertytreeblogs.blogspot.com/2011/04/building-hellcat-hybrid-ruck-from-us.html)) My lockpicking is rusty (very!), my knot tying is adequate, my assault tactics are....something (haven't assaulted anything recently!) my land navigation is....[sigh] rusty.
Man, it has been awhile since I've done some of these things. I'd still love to do it, but I dunno....maybe those who are interested should get together this summer for some work/practice and then we should all go next year. :)
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Tom, I think we're in about the same boat, but I still think it'd be fun. Say we miss a few targets at 1200 yards. So what? There's time between now and then to practice a few things ... long-range precision shooting, lock picking, land nav, knots ... it's not 'til the end of July.
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Bringing this back up to the top. This year's event kicks off tomorrow. Who's interested in starting now to prepare for next year's event?
Ideally, I'm looking for a teammate who has the long-range, precision shooting skills. That's an area of shooting weakness for me.
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I could be interested in something like this. Looks fun!
My bolt gun is currently undergoing upgrades, but with a stock remmy BBL I've been known to hit well out to 750yrds, never got the chance to stretch it's legs further. It is getting a GA Precision barrelled action installed as soon as it arrives at my FFL. With some practice (with a spotter) I'm sure ~800 and under would be no problem for first round hits, 800-1100ish would probably be do-able, but would usually be second round. An LRF could probably make the effective ranges a bit better.
My handgun is decent, and my carbine is solid. Keep in mind that I do not train for competition, and am not willing to modify the way I do things for a little bit of time off the clock if it will compromise real-world techniques.
Equipment wise, I have pretty much everything you could want for such a venture. Except for the extremely detailed medical kit they want you to carry. Seriously, that thing would be half my load volume. And pen flares are ghey. Sorry, it had to be said.
My land nav is solid. Fitness would be no problem, and hopefully my current health issue will be a non-issue by then. My knot tying is ok. Lock picking is usually done with detcord, bolt cutters, or a cordless dremel, but I would be willing and interested in learning actual lock picking. My general problem solving abilities are usually above par. All small unit tactics are solid, that is what I did for a living for 6 years.
750yrds, 3 consecutive rounds, Factory FGMM 175 SMK: (I've got handloads now-adays)
(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/8766/39673832940892375458615.jpg)
By wallace11bravo (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/wallace11bravo) at 2012-07-22
There she is, but she'll look alot different soon enough:
(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/750/snipershide.jpg)
By wallace11bravo (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/wallace11bravo) at 2012-07-22
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Wallace, it sounds like you'd be a good fit. My only gripe about your "qualifications" is that you're in Lincoln ... and I'm in Omaha. One of the reasons that I'm not doing the challenge this year is that the only guy I could find who was interested was in California. Not training together ... probably not a good thing.
Not sure if they allow the use of a LRF. I think part of the challenge is manually working the dope for both the known distance and unknown distance shots.
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Are you an ENGC member?
I don't usually use one, so it is no biggie to me. I'm used to and proficient at mil-ranging.
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Are you an ENGC member?
Yes.
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As am I.
Given the surplus of digits in the temperatures lately, and other issues, I haven't been up there in about a month. Sundays are the only day that work consistently for me, until after my EMT finals in mid-September. Fridays also work most of the time. If you would like to meet up sometime, I'm game. Call or text 402-405- six two five one
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Only half of 36 teams finished, and only a 5-7 of those completed all required checkpoints. The very first thing was a 100lb duffle carry for 3 miles. I'm sure quite a few teams did not pace themselves with that first load carry, and ended up doing more harm than good. At least one competitor was hospitalized, and a few others had to drop for pre-existing conditions.
The specifics of the tasks were only known once the competitors reached the stages, so no one knew specifically what to train for, other than 30miles, ~45lbs, 24hrs, and a few other fragmented details.
Just my honest opinion, I think they went a bit overboard on their first year and will probably scale it back next year. No one wants to hold a competition where half the teams don't even finish.
I've done quite a few stress-shoots, the army equivalent of this competition, and this one is definetly more *physically* challenging than any of those.
A typical stress shoot would be 4 man fire teams, full load with 3 days of supplies, so about 75lbs per person. the course would be 12-20 miles long with stations every 2-4 miles. You would move with blanks, but some stations you would switch to live ammo. You where allowed to make your own packing list, so if you wanted thermals, you could bring em, if you wanted AT assets, you could bring them, but if you didn't then you could leave them at home. They were considered full spectrum, but if you tried to call a fire mission or request CAS, you would always get the "That asset is not available at this time." And there was never any kind of warning of what kind of stations/scenarios they would have.
Some stations where just stop at a firing line, switch to live ammo, and repel an "assault" by pop-up targets. There were also a lot of non-station tasks, such as calling in a front line trace and SITREP every hour. If you forgot an hour, they would add time.
Alot of the stations where reacting to ambush, ied, or indirect fire. There was no instructions or warning, you would be walking along and start taking fire and you take the appropriate actions. If you do everything right (such as spotting the IED, and then taking the appropriate steps to neutralize it), you'll sustain no casualties. If you mess something up (such as freezing in the kill zone), you have to treat and transport a casualty. Which always involved carrying the heaviest guy in your team about 1/2-2 miles, way off the course of the competition. If you screwed up treatment and transport (not taking a covered and concealed route, gap in security), you would start taking indirect, sniper fire, etc. you could take more casualties, or the OCs could just decide to kill off your whole fire team and you where out of the comp. Never happened to me, but I know other team leaders who lost rank after they failed to complete a stress shoot.
I placed fairly well in the one I led a team in right before my last deployment, 4th out of 26ish teams if IIRC. Way back when I was a private on my first stress shoot, we had a kid in one of the other teams drop dead. Some competitions would have the 1st place team coming in at 14ish hours, and the last teams coming in at 30+ hours. They were a lot of fun, but they sucked at the same time.
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Ever heard of the Spartan Death Race? Fewer than 10-15% of those who start finish the race. :D They've been holding the Death Race competition for three years and it keeps growing in popularity.
Maybe these guys are trying to mirror the Death Race and add shooting problems.
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Only half of 36 teams finished, and only a 5-7 of those completed all required checkpoints.
Doesn't surprise me. I imagine most underestimated the challenge. I would peg 30 miles with gear at 8-9 hours via route, off route with land-nav 2-2.5 times that being generous. That leaves one about 6 hours for all the james bond business.
The Marine Corps will allow you to do this "for free". Even pay you. Just report to your local recruiting station for more info. Semper Fi.
And people pay to do this. ;D
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Bringing this back up to the top. This year's event kicks off tomorrow. Who's interested in starting now to prepare for next year's event?
Ideally, I'm looking for a teammate who has the long-range, precision shooting skills. That's an area of shooting weakness for me.
I'll commit to doing this. I can post my skills when I get off work!
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here is ITS Tactical's article on it. i haven't read it yet.
http://www.itstactical.com/training/the-2012-24-hour-sniper-challenge-notes-on-limits-and-gear/ (http://www.itstactical.com/training/the-2012-24-hour-sniper-challenge-notes-on-limits-and-gear/)
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Bringing this back up to the top. This year's challenge is scheduled for September 5-7 near Douglas, WY (about 45 minutes east of Casper, WY). Once again, I'm looking for a teammate.
More info on the challenge: http://competition-dynamics.com/sniper-adventure-challenge-2014/ (http://competition-dynamics.com/sniper-adventure-challenge-2014/)
Teammate Criteria:
- Wants to have FUN
- Even-tempered and level-headed
- Competitive but easy going (wants to win but won't throw a fit if something beyond our control prevents or hinders us from winning)
- Fit (must be able to carry a 40-50 lb pack + rifle & pistol for 30+ miles through rocky, mountainous territory at a fast trekking pace)
- Has most of the gear on the personal required gear list: http://competition-dynamics.com/sniper-adventure-challenge-sprint-class-2013/gear.php (http://competition-dynamics.com/sniper-adventure-challenge-sprint-class-2013/gear.php)
- Good to excellent land nav skills
- Preferably lives in the Omaha metro
- Prefer long-range shooter - making me the carbine shooter
- Prefer similar size and weight (5' 10", 160 lbs)
- Prefer previous adventure racing experience
- Prefer some escape and evade training/experience
Shooting comprises approximately 5-10% of the points for this competition. In theory, a team could miss every target and still win the competition. So, it's not particularly critical that interested parties be top-notch competitive shooters. In fact, someone with average shooting skills and top-notch fitness and navigational skills will most likely win.
Once I have a teammate committed, I plan on rounding up some sponsors so don't let the $695 entry fee dissuade you.
One other thing, they are offering a "sprint" class for 2014. I MIGHT be convinced to do the sprint rather than the full event but I would much rather do the full event.
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sounds like what I was doing 40 years ago,but no mountains,. mostly swamp
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[Sound of crickets chirping] No one?
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[Sound of crickets chirping] No one?
I'd love to do it - my specs:
Teammate Criteria:
- Wants to have FUN (I always have a blast at whatever I do)
- Even-tempered and level-headed (I'm very level headed and even tempered)
- Competitive but easy going (wants to win but won't throw a fit if something beyond our control prevents or hinders us from winning) ( I definitely wont throw a hissy fit or get fussy if I lose, however, I really want to win)
- Fit (must be able to carry a 40-50 lb pack + rifle & pistol for 30+ miles through rocky, mountainous territory at a fast trekking pace) (I'm really chubby at the moment...sitting at 289. The good news is that I'm down from 300 and on my way to 215! I also am not a quitter!
- Has most of the gear on the personal required gear list: http://competition-dynamics.com/sniper-adventure-challenge-sprint-class-2013/gear.php (http://competition-dynamics.com/sniper-adventure-challenge-sprint-class-2013/gear.php) ( I'll have to review this)
- Good to excellent land nav skills (I'm a smart guy, I can learn land nav. Plus I have a cool compass with tritium in it)
- Preferably lives in the Omaha metro (Yes.)
- Prefer long-range shooter - making me the carbine shooter (zero long range shooting experience, no long range rifle)
- Prefer similar size and weight (5' 10", 160 lbs) (6'2", see above for weight)
- Prefer previous adventure racing experience (no adventure racing experience other than one Spartan Race)
- Prefer some escape and evade training/experience (no experience)
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The NFOA 24 Hour Sniper Adventure Challenge team after our first workout.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/Mudinyeri/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_0273_zps362964aa.jpg)
Five months later ...
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/Mudinyeri/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-07/0720141539_zpshh6ru2zn.jpg)
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Go team! This is going to be a blast. Researching and picking out gear is proving to be very enjoyable.
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tagged
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Training continued yesterday afternoon. It was a perfect day to head down to ENGC for a little shooting. Neither Nick nor I had ever shot out to 600 yards before, even though I put together a gun to do it over a year ago.
We started out at 100 yards. I put three rounds through my bolt gun, two of them touching and 2" high, windage was about 1/4" right. I made a slight adjustment and put a round in the same vertical plane 1" high - just where I want to be at 100 yards.
We ran a few rounds through Nick's AR with an EOTech and then moved up to the 600 yard range.
With my rifle zeroed for 200 yards, it took me six rounds to get on paper (man-sized target). The next ten rounds are shown below. I walked the shots in from the right side of the target toward the bull's eye as I adjusted for wind (coming from about my 11:00).
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/Mudinyeri/Mobile%20Uploads/0213141722_zps73adb7ba.jpg)
With windage and elevation pretty well adjusted, Nick put four out of four rounds on target.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/Mudinyeri/Mobile%20Uploads/0213141722a_zps178fdd10.jpg)
For the seasoned long range shooters, a couple questions:
1. I zeroed my rifle 1" high at 100 yards in the prone position but was shooting off of the tables at ENGC yesterday. Would the different position account for the additional 1" elevation difference that I saw in my first two 100 yard shots yesterday?
2. Is there any place around the Omaha area where we could shoot out to 1200 yards?
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Switching from prone to the bench would cause some shift, but I doubt if it would cause a full MOA.
What bullets and load are you using? 1200 yards is going to be quite a stretch for a 308. You might want to consider a Lapua Scenar. They're expensive, but they have the high BC of a heavy bullet and they're light so you can push them to higher velocities.
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Switching from prone to the bench would cause some shift, but I doubt if it would cause a full MOA.
What bullets and load are you using? 1200 yards is going to be quite a stretch for a 308. You might want to consider a Lapua Scenar. They're expensive, but they have the high BC of a heavy bullet and they're light so you can push them to higher velocities.
Bullet is Hornady A-Max 178 grain. Load is a "secret" worked up by a buddy of mind from Californiastan who is an ammo manufacturer. The load is specific to my gun and the bullet and the ranges that I wanted to shoot. He also told me that 1200 yards would be a stretch but that's the absolute maximum that I would have to shoot in this competition. I need a blend of a relatively lightweight rifle and ammunition (have to carry 50 rounds) as well as an ability to potentially reach out to 1200 yards. We'll be covering 30+ miles on foot while carrying our full load-out, including rifle, sidearm and ammo for both.
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The 178 Amax is supposed to do a good job transitioning to subsonic.
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The 178 Amax is supposed to do a good job transitioning to subsonic.
Do you mean over the course of the bullet's flight or by changing the load to slow the bullet's speed initially?
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Do you mean over the course of the bullet's flight or by changing the load to slow the bullet's speed initially?
Bullet's flight.
Some rounds are known for destabilizing/pitching/yawing, and eventually tumbling and generally being useless when they hit the transonic barrier, and with the lower BCs and initial velocities typical in 308 win, it is something to be concerned about if you want to go much past 600.
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Bullet's flight.
Some rounds are known for destabilizing/pitching/yawing, and eventually tumbling and generally being useless when they hit the transonic barrier, and with the lower BCs and initial velocities typical in 308 win, it is something to be concerned about if you want to go much past 600.
Thanks for clarifying. My buddy knows his business and he's a competitive long range shooter himself. I was very confident that I could trust his "recipe".
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1. I zeroed my rifle 1" high at 100 yards in the prone position but was shooting off of the tables at ENGC yesterday. Would the different position account for the additional 1" elevation difference that I saw in my first two 100 yard shots yesterday?
The position itself will not cause the change, but a change in your physical eye to axis of sight alignment and/or eye relief will. So will barrel fouling, atmospheric changes, headwinds/tailwinds (REALLY contrasting ones), powder temp, or any number of other things.
2. Is there any place around the Omaha area where we could shoot out to 1200 yards?
Not likely, but be sure to share if you do find something :)
Locations I know of/use:
Gresham: Private-900
Wilber: Private-1100
Dwight: Public Land-800 (have to hump your steel in about 3/4 of a mile one way)
Bennett: Private-1300
Broken Bow: Club-1000
Alliance: Club- Not sure, over 1000
Lexington: Club- 1600
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The position itself will not cause the change, but a change in your physical eye to axis of sight alignment and/or eye relief will. So will barrel fouling, atmospheric changes, headwinds/tailwinds (REALLY contrasting ones), powder temp, or any number of other things.
Not likely, but be sure to share if you do find something :)
Locations I know of/use:
Gresham: Private-900
Wilber: Private-1100
Dwight: Public Land-800 (have to hump your steel in about 3/4 of a mile one way)
Bennett: Private-1300
Broken Bow: Club-1000
Alliance: Club- Not sure, over 1000
Lexington: Club- 1600
Understood on the eye axis. I'm new to this long range stuff, but understand that from deer hunting.
Thanks for the tips on the shooting areas. I can get a little over 700 yards on my farm, but that's when the crops are out.
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Best of luck to you guys. Keep training hard, it will pay off. :)
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Do you mean over the course of the bullet's flight or by changing the load to slow the bullet's speed initially?
I mean at extreme ranges when velocity has slowed to subsonic - a lot of bullets will tumble during that transition, but the Amax remains stable.
Edit: I'm slow on the draw, I see John already answered. That's what happens when you try to post while you're working on a client's SQL server :)
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I mean at extreme ranges when velocity has slowed to subsonic - a lot of bullets will tumble during that transition, but the Amax remains stable.
Edit: I'm slow on the draw, I see John already answered. That's what happens when you try to post while you're working on a client's SQL server :)
As long as the server doesn't tumble ....
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Are either of you using a 1911 for your pistol in the challenge?
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Are either of you using a 1911 for your pistol in the challenge?
Neither of us plan to. We have to carry 100 rounds of pistol ammo in magazines. That would be a LOT of magazines if we decided to carry 1911's. I plan to carry a Glock 17. I think Nick is planning to take his S&W M&P.
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I was gonna offer up some reliability work if you guys were carrying a 1911. I get wanting to save weight though. Good luck on the challenge. I’m jealous.
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I was gonna offer up some reliability work if you guys were carrying a 1911. I get wanting to save weight though. Good luck on the challenge. I’m jealous.
Thanks for the offer
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I definitely appreciate the support!
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Another guy and myself are planning on doing this.
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Another guy and myself are planning on doing this.
Cool. See you out there.
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Team Handyman Joes is gearing up!
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Another guy and myself are planning on doing this.
How is your team coming along?
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Well wishes for all NE teams
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Thanks! Tobinator and I did our first trek last weekend. ~2.5 hours, ~5.25 miles. It's slower than my goal, but the terrain was quite rugged.
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Thanks! Tobinator and I did our first trek last weekend. ~2.5 hours, ~5.25 miles. It's slower than my goal, but the terrain was quite rugged.
Wait. What? Nebraska's flat. LOL
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i can't imagine. I carried half a 1/4 deer plus my supplies and rifle 3+miles out of Solider Creek Wilderness on my back, that was TERRIBLE
I learned a couple things, I'm glad my rifle is light, i'm glad I had good comfortable boots and good packs are worth more than their weight in gold!
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Wait. What? Nebraska's flat. LOL
If flat Nebraska was that hilly, then maybe hilly Wyoming will be flat...
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The gear is coming together.
Here's the required gear list for the event: COMPETITION DYNAMICS (http://competition-dynamics.com/sniper-adventure-challenge-2014/gear.php)
Here's all my required gear laid out:
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/Mudinyeri/24HSAC/RequiredGearToby_zps579b1971.jpg)
1. Rifle (I'm the long-range shooter)
2. Hydration Packs (two 2 liter packs)
3. Backpack (Eberlestock Gunslinger - technically not required)
4. Trauma Kit
5. Tarp
6. 50 Rounds .308
7. Glock 17 with 100 Round of Ammo in Magazines
8. Reflective Belt
9. Pen Flare
10. Compass
11. Emergency Strobe
12. Headlamp
13. Whistle, Emergency Blanket & Signal Mirror
14. ID Packet
15. Water Purification Tablets
16. First Aid Kit
17. Holster for Glock
18. Tubular Nylon
19. GPS
20. Military Duffel Bag
21. 6 AA Batteries
Everything above is required with the exception of the backpack. Where possible, I'm carrying lightweight items. I plan to get rid of the box for the .308 ammo and carry it in vacuum sealed packs of four rounds each.
Now for the serious weight-saving challenge. Pictured below is all of the optional gear that I'm thinking about taking.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/Mudinyeri/24HSAC/OptionalGearToby_zps2b00899d.jpg)
0. Softshell Jacket
1. USGI Wool Sweater
2. Wide-brimmed Hat (I sunburn easily)
3. Larger, Higher Output Headlamp
4. Scabbard Cover for the Eberlestock Gunslinger
5. .308 Ammo in Vacuum-sealed "Battle Packs"
6. Shooter's Notebook
7. Trekking Poles
8. Small, Highly-absorbent Towel
9. Coin Holders for Salt and Electrolyte Tablets
10. Shemagh
11. 100' Paracord
12. Smaller Compass
13. Duct Tape
14. Hill People Gear Chest Pouch (nice for quick access to food/fuel)
15. Fleece Beanie
16. Lightweight Rain Suit
17. Eye Drops (since Lasik, my eyes tend to dry out more than usual)
18. Two 20 oz. Water Bottles (for Perpetuem drink)
19. Sunscreen/Insect Repellent Wipes
20. Spare Socks
1A. Glove Liners
2A. Mechanix Work Gloves
3A. Fleece Gloves
Time to thin the herd, so to speak.
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extra socks is a good idea, they don't take up much space and wet nasty socks can just ruin your day. What type of footwear will you be sporting?
I don't have much experience with this type of hike you're taking for this thing, so I'll keep my ignorance to myself
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extra socks is a good idea, they don't take up much space and wet nasty socks can just ruin your day. What type of footwear will you be sporting?
I don't have much experience with this type of hike you're taking for this thing, so I'll keep my ignorance to myself
I'm breaking in a pair of Salomon Hiker 4D boots. So far, I'm very happy with them.
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The rifle build is complete! I shaved off nearly a pound and it's much easier to maneuver than my previous rifle. Now, I'll just have to see if it shoots straight.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/Mudinyeri/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-06/0618142008_zpsnywd5nsc.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/Mudinyeri/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-06/0618141944a_zpsmaq51kwz.jpg)
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Dang, that thing is tiny.
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Dang, that thing is tiny.
Yeah, perfect for carrying 30 miles or so!
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6lbs, 15ounces. :)
My brother loaned me his ACOG+RMR. If my tax stamp comes back soon, I might try to go that route.
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6lbs, 15ounces. :)
My brother loaned me his ACOG+RMR. If my tax stamp comes back soon, I might try to go that route.
Yup, the little guy has to carry the heavy rifle. :D
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Updated photo of the team on page 2.
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We leave tomorrow! Did any other NFOA members end up registering?
If you'd like to keep track of our progress, we'll be carrying a SPOT Tracker. All of the competitors will be tracked on this web page: https://competition-dynamics.com/spot2014/ (https://competition-dynamics.com/spot2014/) It appears that we are team #20. You can select and deselect teams on the right-hand side of the page. We are team Asplin Olson.
If you want to track our progress without all of the other competitors, use this web page: http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=07Em3gMrnDSJSo07SBJ7td8nZ5eBKmfML (http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=07Em3gMrnDSJSo07SBJ7td8nZ5eBKmfML)
Tracking will start Friday morning around 8:30 a.m. Mountain Time (9:30 Central).
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Have a great time and be safe.
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We leave tomorrow! Did any other NFOA members end up registering?
Good luck! I didn't sign up because I never got a reply from them about what kind of cuisine they would be serving and if there were any Starbucks along the way.
Do Nebraska proud!
Fly
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Yeah, have fun and be safe guys. Good luck!
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Thanks guys! Tobinator and I will be bringing home the Barret/1st place prize :)
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Run hard and shoot straight!
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GPS is live on these fellas, say a quick prayer for their trek, let it be safe, fun, and quick!
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GPS is live on these fellas, say a quick prayer for their trek, let it be safe, fun, and quick!
AND accurate. ;D
Fly
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i wish the GPS mapping would also show start points check points and end points to give a better idea of where they are at in the course
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The initial points are speed out and follow a road until they get to an area with buildings. From there the points are more closely spaced and off road terrain. I'm wondering if the area with buildings was the initial staging point and they were in a vehicle to get there.
Correction: It looks like the first area with buildings may have been a staging area and the second area with buildings might have been the launch point?
Fly
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Looks like they might have gotten lost for a short time, around 11:00 - 11:45.
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Looks like they might have gotten lost for a short time, around 11:00 - 11:45.
Looking at the terrain map, I'm betting they decided that was a better route.
ETA: But maybe I'm not looking at the correct time. There are a few backtracks. Could be for terrain, getting lost, or just where they have to go to shoot the targets.
Fly
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Looks like they have stopped. No movement since 13:54.
Hope they are OK.
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Looks like they finished. Hope all is well.
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I didn't know everyone was going to be watching! If you saw us backtrack, the route we were taking was either too dangerous, we were lost, or we were in the right area but couldn't locate the checkpoint.
The land nav was much harder than I anticipated. I'm not really sure what I was expecting. We got the mandatory checkpoints for the first mission, 0900-2000. We decided not to do the 2nd mission, 2000-0800. As many times as we got turned around, it would have just been nightmare when all of douglas wyoming would have had to come look for us.
I did get a good chance to beat the ever living **** out of my brothers ACOG+RMR. Every rock I climbed over smacked it.
As for the beginning, the cluster of buildings was a muster area. From there, we went an picked up tree trunks an carried them to the 2nd set of buildings. It wasn't easy, but much easier than I imagined. If we were sitting in one place, we were probably planning/ double checking checkpoints on the map.
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Ya did it, CONGRATS.
Yup, some of us were watching. I know that I was overly excited watching the spot tracker. It stopped, I wondered.
Can't wait for the AAR.
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To add to what Nick said, we really struggled with the land nav. I THOUGHT I was pretty good with land nav. I usually do several "normal" adventure races a year. No problem. This was on a whole other scale with less prep. Normally, adventure races hand out the coordinates and map the evening before the race and you can plot and re-plot to make sure that you have everything right.
Not this race! Everything was done on the clock. Consequently, we rushed some of our initial point plotting and it bit us in the hiney.
We probably added 3-4 hours of mountain trekking to our time yesterday making navigational mistakes and correcting them. I'll put up some pictures to give you an idea of the terrain. It was no joke.
Our physical training was good. Despite our death march back to HQ to try to make the 8:00 p.m. cutoff, both Nick and I still felt pretty good last night. We're not even really sore this morning.
Our packing was also very good. No extraneous weight. Several competitors remarked at how small our packs were.
We did a lot right but did one very critical thing poorly. :(
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I'll also add - we'll be back next year. Training starts on Monday. I'm going to cut down from 245 to 220ish. The donut around my waist didn't prove to be necessary.
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proud of you guys! better luck next time.
according to the comments, there was a team or teams of Rangers. do you know if they won?
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Official results were just posted to the Competition Dynamics Facebook page. We ended up in 26th place (out of 30 teams in the Endurance division). Not bad, I guess, for being lost nearly half of the time that we were on the course.
Brief AAR:
This year, the Challenge was broken up into three "missions". In previous years, the Challenge was one long mission. Based on our reading of the rules, teams would have to complete Mission 1 (Find all the mandatory checkpoints in the right order in the allotted time) before being able to proceed to Mission 2 and so on. Mission 3 was a bonus mission. As it turned out, our interpretation of the rules was incorrect.
The event started with all teams lined up. Each team was given their course map and checkpoint list with UTM coordinates. We were told that the first challenge was required, that it was a log carry and that it was first-come, first-served on the logs. Nick and I opted to follow the crowd (we were one of the last teams to receive our maps and checkpoint list) and hoofed it down the lane away from the HQ and up to the road at the base of the mountain.
We followed the road about 3/4 of a mile to the pile of logs, selected our log, threw it on our shoulders and headed up the hill to the base of the mountain. We were allowed to stay on the road for this portion of the event. That made this a little easier but there was still a pretty good rise to the road up the base of the mountain.
The log carry was a little more than a mile. Both Nick and I felt fresh at the end of the carry. After we put down the log, we grabbed a drink from our hydration packs and pulled out our map, checkpoint list, UTM plotter and compass and got to work plotting the mandatory checkpoints (MCP's). The checkpoint list also had bonus checkpoints (BCP's), emergency water locations and the location of our re-supply cache. We plotted the MCP's and BCP's and the re-supply cache and decided to plot the water locations only if we needed them. (Some checkpoints were supposed to have water.)
The first MCP was due north of our position at the end of the log carry at the top of the mountain.
We chose to head up this draw ...
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/Mudinyeri/24HSAC/IMG_0647_zps2e6be746.jpg)
It was a brutal climb. We did a fair amount of "bouldering" on the way up (climbing up and over boulders) and waded through what seemed like acres of dense scrub brush. As it turned out, we should have gone up the next draw to the east. That was where the MCP was located and it was much less rugged than the draw we chose.
Navigational Mistake #1.
The was the valley in which MCP #1 was located.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/Mudinyeri/24HSAC/IMG_0653_zps64d8e222.jpg)
Eventually, we realized that we had gone up the draw to the west of the MCP and made our way over to the next draw. It took quite a bit of searching to find the MCP (an orange driveway marker about as big around as your pinky and about 36" tall) hidden behind a tree next to a large rock pile.
From there, we began our search for MCP #2. Unfortunately, we had plotted it two grids north of where it was actually located. (Lesson Learned: Take all the time you need to make sure you plot your points accurately.) We took a leisurely 4 kilometer stroll down the back side of the mountain and then back up again once we realized our error.
Navigational Mistake #2.
Nick ran out of water on our return trip up the mountain. I was down to about a half a liter after sharing with Nick to get us back up to the top again. We stopped and plotted the nearest "emergency water" location. Fortunately, we navigated quickly to the water supply. Unfortunately, here is what we found.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/Mudinyeri/24HSAC/IMG_0655_zpsa9ed52fa.jpg)
Emergency water, indeed!
Fortune favors the prepared. After reading on the Competition Dynamics website that much of the water re-supply would need to be "harvested" from "fresh" sources I had decided to carry the additional weight of my Katadyn Hiker water filter/pump. We filtered about 1.5 liters of water into each of our hydration bladders and set off to find MCP #2.
Nick re-plotting MCP #2
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/Mudinyeri/24HSAC/IMG_0650_zps2c3dfb0d.jpg)
Once we had the correct location, it didn't take us terribly long to find MCP #2. After finding it, we stopped, double-checked our plotting for MCP #3 and mapped a route that followed a small stream along the valley in the middle of the mountains. The going was relatively easy. We found a well-used game trail and made good time. Unfortunately, we mis-read the terrain and ended up searching in the wrong area for the checkpoint.
Navigational Mistake #3.
After an hour-long search, we decided to head in the direction of the re-supply cache. As we headed for the cache, we noticed a pickup parked at the east end of the valley in which we had been searching for MCP #3. We headed for the pickup after remembering that MCP #3 also included a challenge (meaning the checkpoint would be manned). The checkpoint was about 10 yards from the pickup. That was exasperating!
We punched our card for the checkpoint, completed the challenge (demonstrating that we were carrying some of the required gear), refilled out water bladders and headed for MCP #4, the final mandatory checkpoint for Mission 1. It was about 6:00 p.m. and our cutoff was 8:00 p.m.
We found a double-track trail that seemed to lead in the general direction of MCP #4 and followed it to increase our speed. The trail led us to within a few feet of the checkpoint. We punched our card and checked our watches. We had about an hour and 15 minutes to make it back to HQ before the 8:00 p.m. cutoff.
The hours spent hauling packs around Nebraska and Iowa's biggest hills served us well. We set a blazing pace back to HQ. My estimate is that we were logging 15 minute miles. While that may not sound particularly fast, keep in mind that we were carrying roughly 50 lbs of gear and we had been climbing up and down a mountain, carrying that gear, for nearly 12 hours.
Night fell. We switched on our red safety beacons and kept up our pace. At about five minutes to 8:00 it became clear that we would not make the time cutoff for Mission 1. We slowed our pace and finished the last mile or so. Both of us felt defeated. We had made up so much time since MCP #3. Yet, it wasn't enough.
We dragged ourselves into HQ and turned in our punch card.
"That's it. We're done, right?" I asked.
The gal at the check-in told us that we would still be allowed to continue on to Mission 2. Nick and I looked at each other, surprise on our faces.
We requested that the woman check with the race director and he confirmed that we could continue.
With that, we took our next set of coordinates and the Mission 2 punch card and went to sit down to eat and change socks. We both wanted to continue but recognized that we might well be risking our lives if we made similar navigational mistakes at night. After discussing it for a few minutes, we made the decision to "ring out". It wasn't the heroic thing but it was the intelligent thing. Getting lost in those mountains in the dark would not only have risked our lives but, potentially, the lives of those who might have had to come retrieve us.
Watching the gal at the check-in/out desk write "quit" next to our team name was one of the biggest disappointments of my entire life. I hate quitting. I'm not even sure I knew what the word really meant until that instant. It sucks.
With that said, we did a LOT of things right (probably including quitting).
Our fitness was superb. To be able to log 15:00 miles at the end of a 12 hour day ... that was an incredible feeling.
Our gear was excellent. Not a single piece of gear failed us during our 12 hours on the course.
Our packing was top notch. Several competitors commented on how small our packs were. We had honed our packing to the point where we had exactly what we needed and not a single ounce more.
At the end of it all, we're going to train harder this coming year. We're going to work on land nav until we're like laser guided missiles in the light or in the dark. We're going to keep up our fitness regimen and add some weight. We're thinking about switching shooting roles to allow this "old man" to carry the lighter of the two rifles.
We'll be back next year!
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Hey, I don't want to hear the dispair from you two about the word
" quit "
You went and competed while some of us sat and dreamed of the what ifs.
Hold your heads up and be proud of your performance, re-focus, and get ready for next time.
I for one, am proud of what a couple of rookies were able to accomplish.
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A pic of your cards with "quit" on them would give me lots of motivation. I would have put it on my computer and phone wallpaper so i see it everyday and remember what youre training for.
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Hey, I don't want to hear the dispair from you two about the word
" quit "
You went and competed while some of us sat and dreamed of the what ifs.
Hold your heads up and be proud of your performance, re-focus, and get ready for next time.
I for one, am proud of what a couple of rookies were able to accomplish.
Thanks, Doug. You're right. We got up off the couch and gave it a shot.
Given the competition, I never expected to win. I mean there were active duty SOF from three different countries (based on what was said around the race HQ). If that's accurate, this was a bit like grabbing four of your buddies and challenging the Michael Jordan-era Chicago Bulls to a friendly game of round ball. :D
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A pic of your cards with "quit" on them would give me lots of motivation. I would have put it on my computer and phone wallpaper so i see it everyday and remember what youre training for.
The official card didn't end up with the word "quit" on it.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/Mudinyeri/24HSAC/scorecard_zpsde982c24.jpg)
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According to their Facebook page, a team from Ares Armor was there. Team 19, they got 2nd place.
Congrats to you guys! I taught the orienteering merit badge at Camp Laramie Peak, the boy scout camp just south of Douglas, and absolutely loved it! I became really familiar with that type of terrain... especially when we thought we had a scout missing in the mountains and was part of a search party!
Hold your heads high, and keep at it!
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Kudos to you guys for making the attempt. Bonus kudos for doing as well as you did, considering that it was your first time. I wish that I were young enough, and fit enough to be able to compete in an event like that, it sounds like fun. I am proud to be in your company!!
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Thanks, guys! We had a blast and I'm already planning/plotting for next year. I also know a guy that is interested in doing this if anyone here wants to participate.
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unless i missed it, you didn't saything anything about shooting, other than your ACOG was able to take some smacks against rocks.
did you get to do much shooting?
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unless i missed it, you didn't saything anything about shooting, other than your ACOG was able to take some smacks against rocks.
did you get to do much shooting?
Due to our navigational ... challenges, we did not attempt any shooting stages. We were able to get out to a range the day before the race and do a little shooting, though.
On a related note, here is my Trek Tech Blog article on the event: www.trektechblog.com/2014/09/how-not-to-win-sniper-adventure-challenge.html (http://www.trektechblog.com/2014/09/how-not-to-win-sniper-adventure-challenge.html)