NFOA MEMBERS FORUM

General Categories => Laws and Legislation => Topic started by: FarmerRick on December 19, 2012, 09:59:10 AM

Title: How should the NFOA procede re: a possible New "Assault Weapon" Ban
Post by: FarmerRick on December 19, 2012, 09:59:10 AM
I'm wondering what the thoughts of our members are...

What say you?



I'm sure most of you know my thoughts on the subject...

(http://th05.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2010/195/2/4/Come_and_Take_It_by_darthdilbert.png)
Title: Re: How should the NFOA procede re: a possible New "Assault Weapon" Ban
Post by: AAllen on December 19, 2012, 10:07:15 AM
At this point am a happy to say that is does not appear we will be having a fight spurred by this recent crime here in Nebraska.  I have spoke to several Senators and members of the press and nobody is saying anything about gun control being proposed over this here, but that is always subject to change.

On the other side the NFOA has been a state oriented organization, but this may be the time where we will need to place some focus on National issues.  Fortunately we have some contacts and (OK the entire Nebraska delegation, at least come January) they are on our side, those that may be soft we can and will be able to apply pressure to.
Title: Re: How should the NFOA procede re: a possible New "Assault Weapon" Ban
Post by: Lmbass14 on December 19, 2012, 10:10:19 AM
Does that include our best buddy Ernie?
Title: Re: How should the NFOA procede re: a possible New "Assault Weapon" Ban
Post by: AAllen on December 19, 2012, 10:13:32 AM
I have not spoke with Ernie, and there is a lot of speculation going on around him right now (he may not be trying to get back on the Judiciary Committee).  But there is an over riding message going in the Legislature that nothing will happen, again that is always subject to review.
Title: Re: How should the NFOA procede re: a possible New "Assault Weapon" Ban
Post by: Mudinyeri on December 19, 2012, 12:54:43 PM
On the other side the NFOA has been a state oriented organization, but this may be the time where we will need to place some focus on National issues.  Fortunately we have some contacts and (OK the entire Nebraska delegation, at least come January) they are on our side, those that may be soft we can and will be able to apply pressure to.

A national ban would affect Nebraska ... just sayin'.
Title: Re: How should the NFOA procede re: a possible New "Assault Weapon" Ban
Post by: AAllen on December 19, 2012, 01:13:14 PM
Well the Nebraska Democratic party is now calling for action in the Legislature:

http://www.nebraskademocrats.org/node/4496 (http://www.nebraskademocrats.org/node/4496)
Title: Re: How should the NFOA procede re: a possible New "Assault Weapon" Ban
Post by: FarmerRick on December 19, 2012, 02:48:19 PM
Well the Nebraska Democratic party is now calling for action in the Legislature:

http://www.nebraskademocrats.org/node/4496 (http://www.nebraskademocrats.org/node/4496)

The writer of that blog:
Dennis Crawford is our newly elected 2nd Associate Chair. He will begin serving his term on the NDP's executive board at the first State Central Committee meeting following November's election. Thank you to Dennis for his contribution to the NDP's blog.

More info on the ambulance chaser Mr. Crawford: http://www.newnebraska.net/diary/3534/dennis-p-crawford-aka-ronaldo-announces-candidacy-for-2d-associate-chair (http://www.newnebraska.net/diary/3534/dennis-p-crawford-aka-ronaldo-announces-candidacy-for-2d-associate-chair)

Title: Re: How should the NFOA procede re: a possible New "Assault Weapon" Ban
Post by: wallace11bravo on December 19, 2012, 03:23:05 PM
I would choose one of the following:

1) NFOA should concentrate most of it's efforts on fighting any new Federal restrictions until the current threat of new bans has passed.

2) NFOA should split it's efforts equally between bettering Nebraska's CCW and self-defense laws, and fighting any proposed Federal AWB's.


We really have a piss poor picture of what exactly is going to be the action at the federal level. We don't really know what kind of support or chances any such bill would have, although it is higher than in previous years.

We still don't know what the hell the NRA's announcement meant, so their level of commitment to resisting new legislation is unknown. If the NRA backs down, I fear that pretty much guarantees an AWB unless other organizations and individuals focus their efforts to compensate. The NRA backing down would give tremendous amounts of ammo to the antis, so even with compensation of efforts, I would doubt it could be stopped.

We also don't know what the societal (voting) pressures will become in January, or whenever this bill is in the hot seat. American's attention span is extremely short, so the "hot topic" people talking about anti-2A legislation will likely be back to talking about Monsanto or some other thing they've chosen to direct their hate at, and, unlike us, will not be writing representatives and engaging in PR campaigns about it.

Unfortunately, there are other highly contested fights going on in the gov right now, and this provides an excellent red-herring to make it look like they are doing something. Some members of gov may see this as a convenient distraction for the masses. If my sources are correct, the first AWB passed as the result of a backroom deal in exchange for troops in Haiti. This COULD be used as a bargaining chip for other issues as well.

I've hear some people say that a new AWB would be struck down by SCOTUS, especially since Heller. I am less confident, but have nothing intelligent to say as to why. Perhaps a lawyer could chime in.

Believe it or not, the majority of Americans did not support an AWB before Newtown. I am sure that number has grown, but we really have no idea of by how much. The only polls seen since then are not acceptable (improper sampling methods, sample sizes to small, etc.) There is no data available for questions concerning mag capacity limits.

As a reminder: slight majorities do not get much done in government, it really comes down to stratification by location, as far as voter influence.

Quote
Are you for or against a law which would make it illegal to manufacture, sell, or possess semi-automatic guns known as assault rifles?
2011 Oct 6-9
For: 43%
Against: 53%
No Opinion: 5%

2004 Oct 11-14
For: 50%
Against: 46%
No Opinion: 4%

Next, I'm going to read a list of actions Congress could take this year. Please say whether you strongly favor, favor, oppose or strongly oppose Congress doing each of the following this year. How about -- [RANDOM ORDER]?

Pass stronger gun control laws

2011 Jan 14-16
Strongly Favor: 26
Favor: 23
Oppose: 23
Strongly Oppose: 27
No Opinion: 2

Source: Gallup 2012

Now for some good news. We do know:

1) The AR-15 is more mainstream now

2) Rs still control the house.

3) The makeup of the house and senate is basically the same when previous AWBs and gun control measures were quashed or ignored, however that was pre-Newtown, and some elected individuals have shown signs of wavering.

In short, I withhold my answer until we have a better "operational picture."
Title: Re: How should the NFOA procede re: a possible New "Assault Weapon" Ban
Post by: AAllen on December 19, 2012, 03:36:55 PM
Some info that was just forwarded to me:

Thought you might find this useful too.  Some polling information from Rasmussen post Newtown.  86 percent want action on mental illness.  Just 27 percent call for more gun control.

Rasmussen does fairly good polls even if we disagree on their meaning/writing, their methodology at least follows industry standards.
Title: Re: How should the NFOA procede re: a possible New "Assault Weapon" Ban
Post by: wallace11bravo on December 19, 2012, 03:49:43 PM
Andy, do you have a link for that?

The main problem I've seen with post-Newton polls, that talking heads try to use, is unacceptably small sample size.
Title: Re: How should the NFOA procede re: a possible New "Assault Weapon" Ban
Post by: AAllen on December 19, 2012, 03:53:03 PM
I don't think it has been used in anything published as of yet, and knowing the press and there feelings they may try to keep it hidden.  It was sent to me by one of my national contacts so it may end up in a press statement put out by someone on our side.
Title: Re: How should the NFOA procede re: a possible New "Assault Weapon" Ban
Post by: bkoenig on December 19, 2012, 03:55:05 PM
I think this is definitely the time to put pressure on Nebraska's congressional delegation.  They need to understand this is a make or break moment, both for our rights and their political careers.

I'm guessing it's going to be awfully hard to push anything through the state legislature next year, but maybe CCW for teachers is a possibility.  I have an 8 year old daughter and I know I would feel much better if I knew there were responsible people carrying in her school.  I would even be ok with allowing teachers to carry if they receive additional training.  I would donate to help cover the cost.

I would really like to see the NRA offer to reimburse the cost of a CCW permit and any additional training to teachers who want to carry.  Hopefully after the media frenzy settles down.
Title: Re: How should the NFOA procede re: a possible New "Assault Weapon" Ban
Post by: wallace11bravo on December 19, 2012, 04:02:44 PM
New question on Health and Well-being Gallup Survey, as of today:

(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/9310/securedownload1k.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/72/securedownload1k.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Title: Re: How should the NFOA procede re: a possible New "Assault Weapon" Ban
Post by: AAllen on December 19, 2012, 04:03:18 PM
bkoenig, in places where it is allowed (teachers carrying in schools) there are either several instructors that give the class to teachers for free, or a local group provides it.  Where legal; costs are being covered.  The NRA stepping in and making an offer like this is just them pushing into what the local firearms organizations are already doing and taking their press.  So I guess that means there is a good chance that the NRA will do it.
Title: Re: How should the NFOA procede re: a possible New "Assault Weapon" Ban
Post by: CitizenClark on December 19, 2012, 04:37:09 PM
I've hear some people say that a new AWB would be struck down by SCOTUS, especially since Heller. I am less confident, but have nothing intelligent to say as to why. Perhaps a lawyer could chime in.

Eugene Volokh, a conservative constitutional law expert and law professor who runs a prominent legal blog has stated that he believes an assault weapons ban would be found constitutional under Heller: http://www.volokh.com/2012/12/18/why-bans-on-so-called-assault-weapons-are-unlikely-to-diminish-the-deaths-caused-by-mass-shootings/ (http://www.volokh.com/2012/12/18/why-bans-on-so-called-assault-weapons-are-unlikely-to-diminish-the-deaths-caused-by-mass-shootings/)
Title: Re: How should the NFOA procede re: a possible New "Assault Weapon" Ban
Post by: Husker_Fan on December 19, 2012, 04:37:39 PM
What? The NRA follow? I always thought they were the leader. /sarcasm
Title: Re: How should the NFOA procede re: a possible New "Assault Weapon" Ban
Post by: bkoenig on December 19, 2012, 05:08:30 PM
bkoenig, in places where it is allowed (teachers carrying in schools) there are either several instructors that give the class to teachers for free, or a local group provides it.  Where legal; costs are being covered.  The NRA stepping in and making an offer like this is just them pushing into what the local firearms organizations are already doing and taking their press.  So I guess that means there is a good chance that the NRA will do it.
Well, that's good to know that local organizations are doing it.  If we can get it pushed through I would love to see the NFOA solicit donations for something like that. 

The reason I mentioned the NRA is because they're the big dog, and they could raise a lot of money for something like this.  I agree that they would probably steal all the credit, though.
Title: Re: How should the NFOA procede re: a possible New "Assault Weapon" Ban
Post by: Husker_Fan on December 19, 2012, 07:08:53 PM
Wouldn't that optic (looks like a trijicon) interfere with the rear BUIS?
Title: Re: How should the NFOA procede re: a possible New "Assault Weapon" Ban
Post by: RobertH on December 19, 2012, 07:15:26 PM
Wouldn't that optic (looks like a trijicon) interfere with the rear BUIS?


my ACOG is over the rear BUIS.  i think the ACOG has 1.5" eye relief.
Title: Re: How should the NFOA procede re: a possible New "Assault Weapon" Ban
Post by: Sincendiary on December 20, 2012, 09:55:41 AM
Wouldn't that optic (looks like a trijicon) interfere with the rear BUIS?

That appears to depict the Trijicon TA01NSN 4X32 ACOG which indeed has 1.5 inches of eye relief as Robert H stated, and has additional back up iron sights on the top of it...rendering the BUIS sight underneath it redundant until the optic was so damaged that it had to be removed.  In that case, the BUIS would again be functional.

That said, now that I have gone on my tangent, I picked the last option of the poll.  Wallace had much better thoughts on the whole process than I did and I like the cut of his jib.
Title: Re: How should the NFOA procede re: a possible New "Assault Weapon" Ban
Post by: Dan W on December 20, 2012, 10:41:42 AM
The topic here is NOT optics
Title: Re: How should the NFOA procede re: a possible New "Assault Weapon" Ban
Post by: Husker_Fan on December 20, 2012, 11:34:57 AM
Sorry Dan.

I picked the second to last option. While we are a state organization, the biggest threat right now is at the federal level. If a federal AWB goes through, all the effort to stop one at the state level would be wasted.

I think we should focus on defeating any federal restrictions, but keep a watchful eye on the unicameral.
Title: Re: How should the NFOA procede re: a possible New "Assault Weapon" Ban
Post by: RobertH on December 20, 2012, 01:43:18 PM
yea, sorry dan!

i picked the 2nd to last selection as well.  we need to focus on NE, but make sure the NRA doesn't screw us over!  maybe focus 80% of our time to NE and 20% to National, like keeping contact with our Federal reps.

im curious to what the NRA is going to say on Fri.