Author Topic: HELP!!!!! I think I have the EBR disease! (Read 5358 times)

JimP · « **on:** July 28, 2009, 09:40:37 PM »

I was contemplating going to the Appleseed shoot in GI in sept, and was thinking about the price of fodder for 'ol Betsy...... even handloaded, .270 gets spendy..... not to mention thats a lot of recoil (wear and tear on me) and heat (wear and tear on ol' Betsy).

..... and No, I'm not going to use my Marlin mod 60....... seems to me that's cheating.

...... I looked at CMP (Garands), but feeding those is about as spendy as .270......

...... and I was at TBH today...... looked at a used AR....... I never liked them much when I had to carry them for our Most Benevolent Uncle......... BUUUUUUUUUUUUUTTTTTTTTT...... I liked that one. Not everything about it, but I understood how it worked, which is more than I can say about the Garand (still WANT! Soooooo many guns, so little cash!). If I HAD to pick up a fighting rifle, It'd have to be an AR, 'cause that's the one I'm familiar with....... sorta.

That's where y'all come in, Great NFOA Hive Mind: Tell me about your AR ownership experience- Colt? (spendy?) DPMS? Pre/Post Ban? Flat-Top? MIL-spec chamber (5.56/.223Win?) Inform me, please.

SBarry · « **Reply #1 on:** July 28, 2009, 09:56:11 PM »

Flat top carbine with a good aftermarket trigger, with an Acog TA01, 'nuff said.

Right now seems the time to buy, market dropped a bunch since February, get one HK mag and a few cheapies, you'll be happy. Check out AR15.com for all the discussion, you will start a s*&^storm on here.

I have three flat top carbines, and have had many more, from a JP rifle to an AR15 pistol and an AR10, flat tops and A2 uppers, they are all fun, just make sure you put a good single stage trigger in it. Most are 5.56 chambered, but get a 1/9 twist for 55 grain bullets, unless you want to shoot 68 grain and up, then 1/7.

Dan W · « **Reply #2 on:** July 28, 2009, 10:19:58 PM »

Definitely go with a flat top upper, either a 5.56 or Wylde chamber. Barrel length and contour are very subjective. I like light weight A2 or Govt. profiles 16-18" long. Brands I like are Rock River Arms, Sabre Defence, Stag Arms , Daniel Defense, Larue Tactical, Bravo Company Manufacturing(BCM).

I like 2 stage triggers on the scoped rifles, and modified single stage triggers on the 16". I use a Nikon Scope, an EOTech halographic sight with flip up iron backup sights, one rifle just has iron sights.

You may be getting the idea... the possibilities are just about endless... that's why we call it a disease

JimP · « **Reply #3 on:** July 28, 2009, 10:30:49 PM »

I am unfamiliar with flat-tops...... I would prefer to start my addiction with a GP gun: iron sights....... a chamber that would work with both 5.56 or .223 (thats the Wylde, right?)

The .223/ 5.56 seems on the low end of the Ooomph Scale, as far as rifles go...... I'm thinking shorter barrels would lose some of the velocity that Eugene Stoner sold the .gov on......

Q: Heavier bullets (term is relative, I know) require the faster (1 turn in 7) twist ..... 55 grains will still print reasonably well with that?

Q: I was issued both M-16A1 ands A2s at various times..... what would a comparable AR run?

Dan W · « **Reply #4 on:** July 28, 2009, 10:44:08 PM »

Wylde chambers are a hybrid that is more accurate than 5.56, but can still handle 5.56 ammo. It is not recommended to fire 5.56 pressure ammo in a .223 chambered rifle.

16" barrels can be very accurate, and you have to get a special tax stamp and BATFE approval for any barrel under 16". That is called an SBR (for short barreled rifle).

1/9 twist is perfect for 55gr bullets, and can handle up to 69 grain without issue. Many1/9 barrels don't have a very exact rifle twist, so they may actually be 1/8.5", which would handle 75gr bullets, or or 1/9.5" that would not. That is why one must test the barrrel for stabilization of the longer heavier bullets to see how they group. 1/8 twist is usually found in the stainless steel barrels, and the mil. spec barrels have a 1/7 twist

Dan W · « **Reply #5 on:** July 28, 2009, 10:45:21 PM »

And Yes 55gr bullets are fine in a 1/7 twist

JimP · « **Reply #6 on:** July 28, 2009, 11:07:22 PM »

Thanks, Dan!

I was just poking around arfcom...... that place is HUGE. I think I know what I want..... now to find it for a price I can afford......

SBarry · « **Reply #7 on:** July 28, 2009, 11:10:08 PM »

Get a flat top with a removable carry handle and a railed gas block with a flip up front sight, that way when you do put a scope or optical sight on it (and you will as your eyesite fades), the front sight does not ghost in the scope.

Stick with the 556 chamber for simplicity, as the wylde chamber isn't that common on low to mid end ARs. 55 grains will still shoot fine in a 1/7 twist, but lighter bullets will tend to overstabilize in it. You will get everything you need in a 16 inch carbine versus a 20 inch rifle. The current M4 is a 16 inch barrel, but the 18 inch has a lot going for it, too.

Dan is right on the target rifles, with 2 stage triggers being great for targets.

I like a 16 inch fluted barrel, just for weight. One of my Wilson Combats is a UT15, has the 16 inch fluted barrel and a JP single stage trigger set at three pounds. The other Wilson is the m4 version, barrel is heavier and not guaranteed to be as accurate.

Do not buy a Vulcan Arms, Olympic or Hesse. I do not recommend DPMS either, but some will. I recommend Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt, YHM, Smith and Wesson, Wilson Combat, Les Baer, JP Enterprises, Rock River, Larue Tactical, Stoner, LWRS, POF (Patriot Ordinance Factory), and LMT (Lewis Machine and Tool). I am sure I have missed some that someone else will be along to chime in on. A major difference in them is how well they were finished.

You can do just about anything you want, how much do you want to spend? There are dozens, if not in the hundreds, of AR15 manufacturers, but only a handful of places that makes lowers, and only a few more that actually make the uppers. Most uppers are proof marked, and an internet search on ar15.com will tell you where they were made. The upper and lower blanks are sold to the companies to finish them and engrave their names and serial numbers.

Find one slightly used, and save your money for all the upgrades, like a Hogue grip, Larue Tactical, Knights Armament, Surefire, YHM or Daniel Defense quad rail, A gas buster charging handle, LMT Sopmod or Magpul collapsible stock and an A2 buffer.

My God, why did you get me started?

I do have a Colt 6920 for sale, 16 inch m4 profile barrel, shot around 200 times. $1400 is the price.

SBarry · « **Reply #8 on:** July 28, 2009, 11:11:47 PM »

Quote from: JimP on July 28, 2009, 11:07:22 PM

Thanks, Dan!

I was just poking around arfcom...... that place is HUGE. I think I know what I want..... now to find it for a price I can afford......

Tell us, we may be able to help.

AAllen · « **Reply #9 on:** July 29, 2009, 08:30:00 AM »

Well just to be difficult I just (ok last fall) built mine in 6.8 Rem Mag, works as a deer rifle as well as a nice shooter for fun and whatever else comes along....

JimP · « **Reply #10 on:** July 29, 2009, 10:34:05 AM »

6.8 Rem Mag? I have heard of 6.8 SPC, .260 Remington, even the .264 Winmag.......

..... I'd like to keep the cartridge limited to 5.56/.223 ...... others may have an unobtainium component in the future......

1,400 beans is a little steep for me, 'rat, even if it IS a colt. It's probably worth every penny, but I don't have that many pennies.

xsuckafreex · « **Reply #11 on:** July 29, 2009, 10:44:52 AM »

dont even stress...

i caught my disease in jan/feb when availability was bad.... (i think thats why i wanted one so much)

16" is plenty! i saw a s&w flattop magpul with flip up sights on gunbroker this morning for $999! thats a lotta AR for your $. I still want a colt tho...

AAllen · « **Reply #12 on:** July 29, 2009, 01:44:59 PM »

Jim your right It's the 6.8 Rem SPC, teaches me to post before I've had my fill of coffee.

JimP · « **Reply #13 on:** July 29, 2009, 05:06:38 PM »

Maybe later for the 6.8...... I want a GP rifle that eats what the .gov feeds theirs.

FarmerRick · « **Reply #14 on:** July 29, 2009, 05:09:50 PM »

If you search good enough and use good, lightly used parts, you can put together a real nice AR for close to $700.
I built my "beater AR" from a $95 new DPMS lower, $55 new lower parts kit, $75 barely used bolt/carrier assy, $60 used Magpul stock, $45 used Colt A1 upper, $110 lightly used Sabre Defense midlength 1/7 chrome-lined barrel, and about $40 for misc. handguards, front sight, gas tube and other small parts. So, less than $500 in a rifle that shoots like a dream. It's pretty hard to find parts that cheap since the election, but I'm sure you could find it all for around $700 these days.

They are very easy to work on and modify/customize to whatever style or purpose that you want. Just by changing out your upper receiver half, you can go from a heavy-barreled varmint/target rig to a "tacticool-ready-for-the-zombie-invasion" rig to a lightweight, basic carbine setup in mere seconds.

There is no cure for BRD.

Rich B · « **Reply #15 on:** July 29, 2009, 06:51:08 PM »

Don't buy a 6.8 SPC as a first AR. Ammo costs are prohibitive.

IMO, there's no reason to buy an A2 (carry handle) upper. Flat tops are more versatile and have a higher resale value. You can always put on a detachable carry handle, backup iron sights (BUIS), a scope, or an RDS.

A 5.56 chamber will shoot .223 and 5.56 safely. So will a Wylde chamber.

If you want a fighting rifle, IMO, there's no better deal right now than the Bravo Co 16" uppers. Colt 6920s have come down a bit in price lately. The new Daniel Defense carbines also look to be a pretty good deal.

Do not worry about brand first. First decide on what type of rifle you want. Fighting rifle? Lightweight? SBR? SPR? Recce? A2-style? A4-style? M4-style? Big game hunting? Varminter? 3-gun? CMP? Will you ever use the rifle to defend your life or the lives of others?

If you're patient and careful, you can piece together a decent rifle for $800-$1000. The sky is the upper limit though.

I'll be shooting my Spike's Tactical ST-22 .22LR AR at the GI Appleseed.

JimP · « **Reply #16 on:** July 29, 2009, 07:17:43 PM »

Quote from: Rich B on July 29, 2009, 06:51:08 PM

Don't buy a 6.8 SPC as a first AR. Ammo costs are prohibitive.

Not an issue, as I handload...... plus, the 6.8 uses .277 bullets, no? I already keep those in stock.....

....still, I want a 5.56/.223......

JimP · « **Reply #17 on:** July 29, 2009, 07:25:28 PM »

Any problem with

Quote from: Rich B on July 29, 2009, 06:51:08 PM

IMO, there's no reason to buy an A2 (carry handle) upper. Flat tops are more versatile and have a higher resale value. You can always put on a detachable carry handle, backup iron sights (BUIS), a scope, or an RDS.

Detachable carry handles ever....... detach (at the worst possible time?)

??

If flat-tops (A-4?) have a higher resale value, then I should be a pick up the older carry handle style (A-2?) for less, no?

JimP · « **Reply #18 on:** July 29, 2009, 07:30:34 PM »

The rifle I looked at had a detachable carry handle.... but a normal (to me-Army vet) A-2 front sight set up....... would that not obstruct the scope (if you took the handle off and put a scope on......)?

SBarry · « **Reply #19 on:** July 29, 2009, 07:57:08 PM »

The front sight will ghost in the scope, meaning it will have a darker area there, but does not completely obstruct the view. You can replace it with a low profile or a railed gas block, then put on a flip up front sight if you want. And the rear detachable carry handles fit on good and tight with two large screws, they do not come off that easily.

Trust me, you want a flat top.