COPS in Omaha

[Chris C]

I won't take a position against someone's shooting ability when they believe they are being shot at.

I agree especially since most who speak about that have never been in a gunfight. 

As for knowing your background.  As far as I can gather watching the news conference it sounded as if he sound guy had a problem getting in the building since he normally is directly behind the cameraman or so I am told.  It sounded as if he took cover in the breezeway and in the Wendy's I've been in where they have one of those usually there is a small brick wall 16'' or so high with glass above.  Haven't been in that location so that's only a guess based upon other locations with a similar set up.  Either way he took cover on the ground in the breezeway which would explain a bullet through the armpit area in to the body bypassing the vest.  If you are fixated on a fleeing subject which you believe just tried to kill you you might not even see the man on the ground if indeed he wasn't hidden behind something.  I would guess tunnel vision, auditory reduction, and the adrenalin rush would play a greater role than most think.  I've never been in a gunfight so don't know just going off courses, things read, videos ect...

[zofoman]

You guys willing to shoot folks with toy guns, lets talk after you shoot someone holding one, and let me know how that is working out for you. 

Three police officers in a small room, could not tell the report of a gun fired at least twice, was an airsoft gun?   

Someone with experience with these guns, I wish you would chime in on this.  Do they sound like a 9mm going off?   Sound, muzzle flash?

I know first hand that the newer airsofts can sting like a son-of-a-biscuit and they do make some noise.  It's not a big boom...but can be more like a .22 short.  Regardless, it's still a pop so that if you are close enough and on the receiving end of one of these, you should be very concerned about what you think you saw and heard.   In the heat of the moment, things can go wonky very quick so that it's possible that you cannot always be 100% positive of what it is you think you saw or heard.  The criminal mind can remove or color a plastic tip on an airsoft gun just as well as paint orange on the tip of a real .45 cal.

Like others have said....are you going to stand still and take that split second risk to stop and analyze what kind of firearm is in the hand of the perp who has something that looks like a firearm pointed directly at you or are you going to take the initiative and react to avoid being shot at first?  We're talking split-seconds to make that decision and it ain't the old rock, paper, scissors game....its life or death...yours.

It's a sad outcome as to what happened in Omaha and only a handful of people know what actually happened that night. 

[GreyGeek]

And I might add GARY it is still launching a "PROJECTILE"

Indeed, and more than one person has been killed by such a weapon.  Catch one in the eye or temple and it will stop somewhere in your brain.  Catch one between the ribs and it could penetrate into or through the heart or major vessel.  Also potentially fatal.
jcp.bmj.com/content/51/7/525.full.pdf


It's like saying that a 6' 4"  294 lb "child" with a penchant for strong-arming is unarmed.

[AAllen]

If that's how it went down the officer may have had no idea the sound man was behind the glass.  If you're in a lighted area and the other side of the glass is dark it can be almost opaque.

I watched the press conference and that, though having a little more detail, is what the chief said the video that he and the County Prosecutor watched had.

[00BUCK]

If one is a gun person, to the point of trained and a CHP license, one would think they would recognize a toy gun.   I am not going to pull my gun, on someone pointing a toy gun at me.   

The douchiest comment I have ever seen, bar none. Did you see the Airsoft they showed form the scene of the crime?  This is THE ACTUAL gun - there is no way in hell you can say that you could tell this was a fake from even 10 feet away when someone is pointing it at you in a life or death situation. You need to get off your "I am so freakin smart and know everything nobody is as great as me" high horse for once and quit being a douche.

[unfy]

If that's how it went down the officer may have had no idea the sound man was behind the glass.  If you're in a lighted area and the other side of the glass is dark it can be almost opaque.

Does change things a bit, yeah.

[AWick]

Can't we all agree, that being able, to correctly distinguish, what item, is being handled, by a "good kid", is like, being able to, tell a, cucumber, from a, zucchini? Once, in the jar, the dill, can hinder, your view, but quite the, suprise, if after, all your work, your pickle, ends up being, a, dilled, and flavored, zucchini? I'd rather, be sure, of what, I'm about to eat, as not to, regret it later.

[NE Bull]

Rod, please fill in any holes for me.

We spoke on a bill last session (and for the life of me I don't recall where it ended up). In short the state wanted to make committing a felony with the use of a toy or facsimile gun the same as using a real firearm.  First thought was to attack this, but then we realized as CHP or any one defending ones self would be affected by this.  If someone was threatening me or mine and I had every reason to believe my life was in danger and shot/responded in self defense, I would rather the question of whether the gun was real or not weigh into getting the attacker off or convicting me in wrongful death suit.
We spoke to agreeing with the principle of the bill, but must keep the legal description separated a firearm is a firearm and a toy or facsimile is just that. It was worded dangerously to include a toy AS a firearm. Does my rambling make any sense?
 Any way. I'm still catching up on everything here, but sounds like a bad day all around for a lot of folks.

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

[Kodiak]

Gary ever heard of Sns activation, you clearly don't train for duress or understand use of force.  What would you teach your students? Verify a gunshot wound to yourself before chambering a round and defending yourself?

[Mudinyeri]

It's like saying that a 6' 4"  294 lb "child" with a penchant for strong-arming is unarmed.

^This

The rioting in Ferguson had nothing to do with injustice.  It was entirely about opportunism.  Those same (or similar) opportunists could make their way to Omaha just as easily as they did Ferguson, MO.  The perp's family is already on the news saying, "Well-trained people should be able to distinguish a toy from a real gun."  All we need to light the powder keg is for Jackson and/or Sharpton to show up with their infinite supply of matches.

My statement(s) had/have nothing to do with race or racism.  They were/are made purely on the basis of "forewarned is forearmed".  To call them racist, Husker, is to misunderstand them entirely.

My son passes the Wendy's in question on his way to and from school every day. 

[RLMoeller]

Jeremy has this mostly right.  I too am stretching my memory to recall much detail of the bill.   There was some debate on how this could affect CHP holders.  After evaluating the bill it did not appear to have any impact on the use of force laws.   Our issue with the bill was with definitions of firearms being changed.

[Husker_Fan]

Mudinyeri,
I was not calling anyone or any statement in this thread racist. Jumping to predictions of riots with no basis to do so will be viewed by some people as racist. The protesting in Ferguson was predictable given the reaction of the police becoming defensive. The police response to the protests was inappropriate and created the opportunity for bad actors to exploit.

My view is that Mike Brown may have been a bad man and the officer may have been justified. Unfortunately, the way the police and county attorney responded destroyed their credibility and that community will never believe the officer isn't guilty of murder. Transparency would have nipped it in the butt early.

Chief Schmaderer has handled this well. He quickly released as much detail as possible, including still frames from the video. Transparency makes it hard for opportunists to feed off of uncertainty and distrust.

[66bigblock]

Slight thread drift, but I am wondering:

Was the Wendys posted as a gun free zone?


66bigblock

[AAllen]

Slight thread drift, but I am wondering:

Was the Wendys posted as a gun free zone?


66bigblock

It has been a few weeks since I have been there but I do not remember ever seeing a posting there, I live just south of this Wendy's and drive by regularly.

[Mudinyeri]

I've never seen a sign there either.

[66bigblock]

thanks guys.  One of the news clips last night showed the door in a passing shot.  I saw some type of sign posted, but no matter how I paused it on my tv/dvr I couldnt make out what it said.  Could have been a no shirt no service sign also or anything else.

Thanks for the response.

66bigblock


(p.s. - I almost typed no shoot, no service) talk about freudian slip...

[shooter]

 just heard on KFAB, that the waver he signed for being damaged expired 4 days before the shooting, 
 
   not sure if its true, but that could cost us,

[GreyGeek]

When have there ever been riots over an armed robber being shot in the act?

Do a Google search with "robber shot riot -ferguson -brown -france -salinas", and take your pick.
I'll make a prediction:  people rioting over armed robbers being shot by police during the commission of the crime will increase in frequency for political reasons.

[shooter]

 the 1969 riots in Omaha were caused by a officer shooting a young black girl, killing her, was a very interesting time to say the least,

[ILoveCats]

Coming up in four minutes (6:00pm) WOWT Omaha is running a report on the small difference between real guns and Airsoft ones. Should be interesting.