Author Topic: Another Perspective On Open Carry (Read 4724 times)

Gary · « **on:** October 03, 2014, 12:29:10 PM »

http://libertycrier.com/massive-open-servility/

What do we see in this story / photograph?

I see open carry, with a responsible twist. I believe this photo to be from Switzerland.

Contrast this photo above, with the one below, and you see a stark difference. I think this photo is the USA. Just a guess about the countries of origins for these two photos. If I were to open carry, I would not be comfortable with a magazine in the mag well. Just me. I am sure some of you will disagree.

Gary · « **Reply #1 on:** October 03, 2014, 12:33:21 PM »

OK, I guess depending on what platform you carry. lol

http://bearingarms.com/open-carry-kansas-kicks-notch/

thirtydaZe · « **Reply #2 on:** October 03, 2014, 12:39:39 PM »

early in the summer i was walking my dog, same walk i take everyday. it's a bike trail around a pond surrounded by houses.

along came 2 kids on their bikes, i'd guess 12ish in age. one of them had a, what im assuming pellet gun rifle across his handlebars. i thought nothing of it, and i'm sure that if some lady and her kid came walking by they probably wouldn't think much of it either (well who knows).

i'll venture to be, if i was riding my bike on the same trail with my pellet gun across my handlebars, someone in the neighborhood would be up my butt screaming as fast as they could.

honestly in the first pic, it's not the gun i'm looking at.

bkoenig · « **Reply #3 on:** October 03, 2014, 01:06:38 PM »

There's a gun in the top picture?

Kodiak · « **Reply #4 on:** October 03, 2014, 01:07:09 PM »

Aren't you also uncomfortable with a round in the chamber? I can see why observers would feel more comfortable without the mag in but not the carrier. In the end, the assumption should be made the the magwell empty rifle still has on shot in it.

Sandhillian · « **Reply #5 on:** October 03, 2014, 01:09:22 PM »

Quote from: thirtydaZe on October 03, 2014, 12:39:39 PM

honestly in the first pic, it's not the gun i'm looking at.

+1

Gary · « **Reply #6 on:** October 03, 2014, 01:44:40 PM »

Quote from: BlackheartPaladin on October 03, 2014, 01:07:09 PM

Aren't you also uncomfortable with a round in the chamber? I can see why observers would feel more comfortable without the mag in but not the carrier. In the end, the assumption should be made the the magwell empty rifle still has on shot in it.

I am more comfortable with Condition 3 or 4 carry for most people. http://www.glockleg.com/

rudy · « **Reply #7 on:** October 03, 2014, 01:44:55 PM »

Do you carry your 10 mm Glock with no mag in the mag well?

P.S. the photo of the woman with the rifle was taken in Israel, not Switzerland.

grumpy old man · « **Reply #8 on:** October 03, 2014, 01:50:30 PM »

If you are going to carry open or concealed why would you do so without a magazine and one in the chamber? a year ago I contacted the state patrol, my local sheriff, and my state legislator and asked them if I carry should i carry with one in the chamber and every single one of the three responses were to carry with one in the chamber.

66bigblock · « **Reply #9 on:** October 03, 2014, 03:38:41 PM »

you cant tell me that more than 1 out of 100 people at the farmers market would notice that there is no magazine.

See black gun = FREAKOUT!!!

Whoops, I guess since I used farmers market people in my example, I should also call it a clip.

66bigblock

bkoenig · « **Reply #10 on:** October 03, 2014, 03:52:50 PM »

Quote from: 66bigblock on October 03, 2014, 03:38:41 PM

you cant tell me that more than 1 out of 100 people at the farmers market would notice that there is no magazine.

See black gun = FREAKOUT!!!

Whoops, I guess since I used farmers market people in my example, I should also call it a clip.

66bigblock

Exactly. Even on something like an AR15 with a mag that is mostly external, I'm guessing the average antigun yahoo couldn't tell.

SgtSt3d4nk0 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 03, 2014, 03:58:27 PM »

There was a firearm in the first picture?

farmerbob · « **Reply #12 on:** October 03, 2014, 04:40:51 PM »

I still can't see a firearm in the first picture, must be one of those optical illusions.

If you're not going to carry with a magazine in the gun and a round chambered, get a baseball bat and fix a sling to it, the bat is far more effective for self defense in this manner.

Gary · « **Reply #13 on:** October 03, 2014, 04:41:49 PM »

Quote from: SgtSt3d4nk0 on October 03, 2014, 03:58:27 PM

There was a firearm in the first picture?

No, there are several.

bkoenig · « **Reply #14 on:** October 03, 2014, 04:51:41 PM »

In the first picture, the hypothetical firearm (I still don't see it) is most likely being carried by an Israeli reservist. They carry their duty weapons with them when out of uniform, but they're unloaded.

If you're open carrying solely to make a political statement then carrying with or without a magwell won't make much of a difference. If you're open carrying (or concealed carrying) for protection you are handicapping yourself by not carrying with a mag inserted and a round in the chamber. If someone personally doesn't feel comfortable with that I understand. It's still better than no gun at all.

Gary · « **Reply #15 on:** October 03, 2014, 05:00:49 PM »

Quote from: bkoenig on October 03, 2014, 04:51:41 PM

In the first picture, the hypothetical firearm (I still don't see it) is most likely being carried by an Israeli reservist. They carry their duty weapons with them when out of uniform, but they're unloaded.

If you're open carrying solely to make a political statement then carrying with or without a magwell won't make much of a difference. If you're open carrying (or concealed carrying) for protection you are handicapping yourself by not carrying with a mag inserted and a round in the chamber. If someone personally doesn't feel comfortable with that I understand. It's still better than no gun at all.

What level of training, as in rounds fired, would someone say, is sufficient to go chamber hot?

Is a box of 50, when you first get a gun enough? Is 50 a week enough? More?

The problem, is not one thing causes ND's. It is a combo of circumstances that cause them. Baby crying, phone ringing, bills over due, fight with spouse, fight with neighbors spouse, kids, traffic, weather, job, jobs, stress.

I guess we could ask the second in command at the 3 largest police dept in the state what caused the bullet hole in the ceiling of their dispatch office. Maybe the answer is there. Or maybe the 20 year police chief of another town, that has shot himself twice, in 20 years. When I see someone going condition 3, or condition 4, I do not see someone who is unfit to carry, I see someone that is thinking of all possible outcomes, and works what could happen, into their training, and into their life.

In the video clip below, I call the mindset, the Rambo mentality. No reason to have a condition 0 rifle, in a chow line, on a military base, except it does make for interesting movie viewing. This mindset, in popular culture, trickles down into the people that watch such shows, and it influences their actions. The child shot with a dropped gun at a Halloween party, is such a outcome. Why does someone need a round chambered in a pocket pistol at a child's Halloween party?

Back to the subject of Open Carry of long guns, do the open carry folks think it prudent to carry a rifle Condition 0 or Condition 1?

Mntnman · « **Reply #16 on:** October 03, 2014, 05:15:25 PM »

Quote from: Gary on October 03, 2014, 05:00:49 PM

What level of training, as in rounds fired, would someone say, is sufficient to go chamber hot?

Is a box of 50, when you first get a gun enough? Is 50 a week enough? More?

Whatever the person carrying decides is fine with me. It has been proven time and again that people with training make plenty of mistakes, anyway. I am not one that buys into the liberal fantasy that you must have mandatory training before you can do anything.

Gary · « **Reply #17 on:** October 03, 2014, 05:29:45 PM »

I'll post carry condition numbers, so everyone will know what we are talking about.

Condition 0 - A round is in the chamber, hammer cocked, and the safety is off.
Condition 1 - furthermore known as "cocked and locked”, means a round is in the chamber, the hammer cocked, and the manual thumb safety on the side of the frame is applied.
Condition 2 - A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.
Condition 3 - The chamber is empty and hammer down with a charged magazine in the gun.
Condition 4 - The chamber is empty, hammer down and no magazine is in the gun.

bkoenig · « **Reply #18 on:** October 03, 2014, 05:35:38 PM »

Quote from: Gary on October 03, 2014, 05:00:49 PM

What level of training, as in rounds fired, would someone say, is sufficient to go chamber hot?

It's not my place to say, or anyone else's, other than the person who makes the decision to take responsibility for their own safety. I'm fully confident in my ability to safely carry a gun with a round in the chamber. Other people may not be, and that's fine. That doesn't change the fact that someone without a mag inserted and a round chambered will not be able to react as fast.

Dan W · « **Reply #19 on:** October 03, 2014, 05:55:41 PM »

Negligent discharges are caused by the assumption that a firearm is not in condition 0. In my view all firearms are always in condition 0 and treated as such, no wondering or indecision brought on by myriad scenarios. Just one state of readiness that never changes.