Author Topic: Offical contact? (Read 2443 times)

Rob B · « **on:** February 21, 2011, 06:45:27 AM »

Is it a contact,required to inform PO, if a policeman, while investigating a driveoff at a gas station, asks if you saw the vehicle? If he comes into your place of business, you are standing with other employees who maynot know you carry, and ask you a question, are you required to announce to all your workmates that you carry?

FarmerRick · « **Reply #1 on:** February 21, 2011, 08:00:38 AM »

That is kind of a tough one, but in my opinion(not worth a whole lot) I would say that what you described is just barely on the NO side of the fine line between Yes and No.
Now, if he asks for your ID and has you fill out paperwork it may be a good idea to hand the officer your permit too, just to be on the safe side.

Tough call.

NE Bull · « **Reply #2 on:** February 21, 2011, 09:01:04 AM »

Quote from: FarmerRick on February 21, 2011, 08:00:38 AM

That is kind of a tough one, but in my opinion(not worth a whole lot) I would say that what you described is just barely on the NO side of the fine line between Yes and No.
Now, if he asks for your ID and has you fill out paperwork it may be a good idea to hand the officer your permit too, just to be on the safe side.

Tough call.

Yeah it's a fine blurry line (if that makes sense to anyone) on what is 'official' business.
I have always figured that once the officer asked for I.D or other personal info for a report, then it would be official, then I would just quietly hand the officer my I.D. and Permit and hopefully he would just acknowledge it without announcing to the others. At least that's how it goes in my utopia. :angel1:
What if you stop and ask a local LEO for directions or to report suspicious activity?
( Oh Lord someone stop me, I'm starting to sound like a Nebraska Senator What if, what if?)

OnTheFly · « **Reply #3 on:** February 21, 2011, 11:19:10 AM »

Regarding the "...quietly hand the officer my I.D. and Permit and hopefully he would just acknowledge it..." comment, here is my experience with a related situation.

A few weeks ago, when the roads were still slippery, I was approaching an intersection in Lincoln. When the light turned yellow, I applied the brakes, but I could tell that I was not going to stop. At best, I would stop right in the middle of the intersection. Taking a quick glance at the cars waiting to cross the road I was on, I could see that no one else was moving towards the intersection, so I knew I would not hit anyone. However, the other thing I realized with my glance was that a police cruiser was sitting at the front of the line of cars waiting to cross the street.

So of course they turned the corner and pulled me over. I was a little upset with myself, but I had the presence of mind to pull out my license, CHP, registration, and proof of insurance. I handed it all to the officer with my CHP on top. It turned out to be two officers, one newly hired and the other a training officer. After they walked away, I realized I forgot to tell them I was carrying that day. Though in the back of my mind I was thinking this should be obvious since I am not obligated to produce my CHP when I am not carrying. As they came back to the vehicle, I rolled down my window and said "After you walked away, I realized I had given you my CHP, but did not say the words 'I am carrying today'". The training officer was nice enough, but he mentioned that I need to tell them that because it could result in getting my CHP revoked. My reply was basically that I appreciated what he said, but if I was not carrying, I would not have even handed over my CHP.

End result...no ticket. Only a warning and the officer didn't push the CHP issue. Just to cover my posterior, I won't make that mistake again.

Fly

DaveB · « **Reply #4 on:** February 21, 2011, 11:31:00 AM »

I have been stopped twice on DOT checks, I do not hand my CCW permit to the officer, I only tell them I have a permit and a gun. They have not asked for either and thanked me for letting them know. No tickets, only one verbal warning.

If a cop just walks up to you and asks you a simple question and the answer is no, he will walk away, no harm done. If you have to answer with anything that is going to require a conversation, It would be adviseable to let him know before you get into the conversation. JMO of course, I'm not a lawyer.

Wilson · « **Reply #5 on:** February 21, 2011, 11:59:38 AM »

I did the same thing, forgot to mention it because I had my permit on top. The deputy did remind me I was to verbally tell her my status. Funny thing, my wife told me the same thing. Verbal warning and lesson learned.

sjwsti · « **Reply #6 on:** February 21, 2011, 12:55:18 PM »

Quote from: OnTheFly on February 21, 2011, 11:19:10 AM

My reply was basically that I appreciated what he said, but if I was not carrying, I would not have even handed over my CHP.

Your right, your under no obligation to present your permit if you are not carrying. But realize as soon as they run your license they will see that you have been issued one. And when they come back they will ask about it. The officer wont know if you arent carrying or if you forgot to inform him/her.

So as a courtesy I would state that I have a permit but am not carrying. This only to save them the trouble of asking later and making you appear more cooperative.

- Shawn

NE Bull · « **Reply #7 on:** February 21, 2011, 12:58:59 PM »

Yes, the preceding situations are clearly official contacts, and I would and have, informed as instructed. What I was referring to was a situation in say; a crowded store when asked if you saw anything suspicious after a shoplifting or say you were one of a few that stopped at the scene of an accident. In both cases, as with Rob B's scenerio, you would be surrounded by strangers (possibly sheeple) who need not know you carry. In some cases I would think the situation might get hairy if you had to announce out loud of your carry status. (I have a gun=almost like yelling Fire) It is times like these I would like to think a LEO would appreciate a silent notification such as just handing him/her my permit,( or at the most asking to take an aside to inform out of earshot.)

{Of course I could just flash my CCW badge hanging off my tacticool duty belt next to my tacticool handcuffs and superfire light all of which I ordered thru Blocktalk, and all would be well, because obviously I'm almost, kinda sorta, pretty close to, a LEO myself.

I know, I know I should have been wearing my plate carrier, but its at the cleaners. }

shaggy853 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 21, 2011, 01:32:18 PM »

I have had about a dozen contacts with officers when i was carrying. each time when i was asked for my ID i handed the officer both ID and permit whether carrying or not(except for once). the officer will then ask if i am carrying and i will say yes or no. each time ive been carrying ive been disarmed. one time i was held at gun point until 4 other officers showed, at which point i was ordered on my stomach and cuffed, then disarmed. i can elaborate on that story if anyone wants to hear it.

unless i am asked for my ID, i dont mention anything about carrying. I have never informed the officer of my status before i was asked, i have always just showed the permit and waited for the question. I just asked the three CHP holders that i work with and they said the same thing so i will continue to wait for the question.

DaveB · « **Reply #9 on:** February 21, 2011, 01:43:35 PM »

Nebraska is a must inform, not a wait for them to ask.

Rob B · « **Reply #10 on:** February 21, 2011, 02:08:11 PM »

To clarify was never asked for ID, but took name and address:( Also my gun was locked in car at time so I wasn't carring, but could have been

sparky · « **Reply #11 on:** February 21, 2011, 02:35:09 PM »

Shaggy, I would love to hear more about that...

SemperFiGuy · « **Reply #12 on:** February 21, 2011, 08:18:57 PM »

When in doubt, let's look it up:

NAC.272
002.05
"Contact with a peace officer shall mean that the permit holder has been stopped, detained, questioned, or addressed by a peace officer for an official purpose or in the course of his or her official duties."

019.02 sez CHP holders officially contacted.......must immediately inform....the peace officer...of the concealed handgun.

Two times I wuz stopped, both while not carrying, I told 'em, "I have a lawful concealed handgun permit and I am NOT CARRYING AT THIS TIME. REPEAT: NOT CARRYING." Seems to have addressed the situation OK.

sfg

OnTheFly · « **Reply #13 on:** February 21, 2011, 09:57:32 PM »

For posterity, here is the entire law with emphasis added...

Quote

69-2440. Permitholder; duties; contact with peace officer or emergency services personnel; procedures for securing handgun.

(1) A permitholder shall carry his or her permit to carry a concealed handgun and his or her Nebraska driver's license, Nebraska-issued state identification card, or military identification card any time he or she carries a concealed handgun. The permitholder shall display both the permit to carry a concealed handgun and his or her Nebraska motor vehicle operator's license, Nebraska-issued state identification card, or military identification card when asked to do so by a peace officer or by emergency services personnel.

(2) Whenever a permitholder who is carrying a concealed handgun is contacted by a peace officer or by emergency services personnel, the permitholder shall immediately inform the peace officer or emergency services personnel that the permitholder is carrying a concealed handgun.

(3)(a) During contact with a permitholder, a peace officer or emergency services personnel may secure the handgun or direct that it be secured during the duration of the contact if the peace officer or emergency services personnel determines that it is necessary for the safety of any person present, including the peace officer or emergency services personnel. The permitholder shall submit to the order to secure the handgun.

(b)(i) When the peace officer has determined that the permitholder is not a threat to the safety of any person present, including the peace officer, and the permitholder has not committed any other violation that would result in his or her arrest or the suspension or revocation of his or her permit, the peace officer shall return the handgun to the permitholder before releasing the permitholder from the scene and breaking contact.

(ii) When emergency services personnel have determined that the permitholder is not a threat to the safety of any person present, including emergency services personnel, and if the permitholder is physically and mentally capable of possessing the handgun, the emergency services personnel shall return the handgun to the permitholder before releasing the permitholder from the scene and breaking contact. If the permitholder is transported for treatment to another location, the handgun shall be turned over to any peace officer. The peace officer shall provide a receipt which includes the make, model, caliber, and serial number of the handgun.

(4) For purposes of this section, contact with a peace officer means any time a peace officer personally stops, detains, questions, or addresses a permitholder for an official purpose or in the course of his or her official duties, and contact with emergency services personnel means any time emergency services personnel provide treatment to a permitholder in the course of their official duties.

From how I read this...

1) If you are not carrying, you do not have to inform said officer or provide your CHP. Is it a good idea to do it regardless? Maybe...at least I don't think it would hurt.

2) "Contact" includes when the officer "addresses a permitholder for an official purpose". Sounds like to me if the officer says anything more official than "Good morning", then you might want to be thinking about advising the officer.

3) You only have to carry your CHP when you have a concealed firearm on your person. So would providing your CHP during official contact constitute "informing" the peace officer? Okay...maybe that last one is stretching it.

Fly

shaggy853 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 22, 2011, 09:05:12 AM »

Quote from: sparky on February 21, 2011, 02:35:09 PM

Shaggy, I would love to hear more about that...

its rather lengthy.

I was on my motorcycle and it was with a State Patrol officer i have a history with. I was pulled over for speeding. i stopped, shut off the bike, put the kick stand down and put my hands out. as the officer approached i turned my head around and told him that i had a concealed permit and that i was carrying. he immediately drew his firearm and took cover behind the door of his cruiser and called for backup. he then ordered me off of the bike and onto my knees with my legs crossed. several minutes later 4 other officers arrived. He then ordered me to the ground, handcuffed me with his knee in my back and then disarmed me. he unloaded the firearm and took my wallet. he then asked me how i had a concealed permit with a flight to avoid arrest on my record, i informed him that i obviously wouldnt have a concealed permit with that on my record. he continued to accuse me of running from his sargent, etc. as he put me into his car he told me that he was going to do everything in his power to get my CHP taken away from me.

after he got into the car i asked him what the problem was with me having a CHP, he told me that i shouldnt be carrying on the motorcycle because if someone sees the gun it could create a panic. i told him that didnt make any sense to me at all since NE has an open carry law. he told me that i was not responsible enough to have it and that i could create a distraction for other drivers and that was against the law. I was completely speechless at this point.

He then asked how he knew my face if I wasnt a fugitive. I reminded him that he had pulled me over several times in the last 7 years and falsely detained and accused me of being on drugs, running drugs, stealing property, etc. and told him what else i drove. He remembered me at that point, wrote me a speeding ticket and he went on his way.

As a side note, I keep my firearm in a IWB holster right above my right butt cheek where my wallet is. I refuse to reach for my wallet for my ID and CHP in case the officer had somehow spotted the firearm while i was riding. I have never been spotted when wearing my riding jacket, but I dont want to take chances with officers like him.

With this said, I have had no other issues with officers and my CHP. They are usually pretty careless with the firearm, throwing it onto the hood of their car and such, but thats common from what ive seen.

DaveB · « **Reply #15 on:** February 22, 2011, 09:18:03 AM »

I'm sure you filed a complaint and got an attorney for this. I would like to hear the officers side of the story too. Also, if it was your bike, he knew you had a CCW permit before he got out of the car. Something just isn't making sense here. Sorry, not meaning to call you out, but, I don't think this is SOP in Nebraska, at least the NSP.

shaggy853 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 22, 2011, 10:09:00 AM »

i didnt file a complaint or get a lawyer. Aside from the speeding ticket, nothing else ever happened. I would love to have the video tape, but i didnt want to spend the money to have a lawyer get it for me so i dropped it.

JebM · « **Reply #17 on:** February 22, 2011, 05:15:05 PM »

DaveB

The officer wouldn't know he had a permit until he ran his drivers license. The CCP is not tied to your vehicles license.

DaveB · « **Reply #18 on:** February 22, 2011, 06:07:31 PM »

Okay, I thought it was tied to vehicle owner registration also. My mistake.

greg58 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 22, 2011, 11:16:41 PM »

That is quite a story Shaggy, I would hope that most LEOs would be more professional than that.
I sometimes carry on my bike, but keep the handgun in my faring pocket, the thought of rolling on the pavement with a gun on my hip is a little unsettling.
Where did your incident happen?
I have run across a few officers who get a little exited, but most are reasonable folks.

Greg58