Author Topic: Copper Plating (Read 31742 times)

unfy · « **on:** December 11, 2011, 05:21:21 PM »

Been a few forums talking about it. There's a few youtube videos about different setups. I figured I'd look into it as well.

Shopping this weekend:

$5 - Tub to hold solution
$11 - Zepp root killer (99% copper sulfate pentahydrate)
$12 - 20 feet of 1/4" copper tubing
$6 - acetone
$55 - 13v 3amp dc power supply from radio shack (jameco would have it cheaper but i'm impatient)
$5 - car bulb holder
$5 - car bulbs
$1 - distilled water
$?? - pipe cutter

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Stuff I already have: aligator clips, wire, etc.

I'll be setting things up tonight... will take pictures eventually.

I couldn't really find a copper plate to act as a copper donor, so i'll be hammering out the copper tubing to see if that can work. There are the 1-2" end caps that might be able to be hammered flat.. but... whatever, tubing will work i hope.

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Now for the silliness: I don't have any casting supplies yet (other than welders gloves). I have some lead from missouri bullet company that'll i'll try it out on, but also don't have sizing dies. Soooo right now it's just "can i electroplate".

Lead pot and other supplies will be coming shortly.

Bigtony · « **Reply #1 on:** December 11, 2011, 05:27:11 PM »

Trying to make copper plated bullets or metal jacketed? Sounds like a lot of work but a fun experiment. Let us know how it goes.

unfy · « **Reply #2 on:** December 11, 2011, 05:45:16 PM »

Jacket would be a swaging setup and stuff. I've seen some hacks using rifle resizing dies to form ogives but... i'd prolly insist on doing the insanely expensive ch4d dies or something.

No, this is just to plate the lead to eliminate leading in the barrel. Guess I'm tired of tweaking charge amounts depending on what kind of lead I'm loading. And full power pistol loads would be kinda nice as well for plinking with my carry weapon (rather than the reduced loads to stop leading)...

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A lot work, it shouldn't be too much. I'm about to take a file to the plastic tub right now to hold the copper in place easily. Bullets themselves should just be wrapping thin wire around the bullet lube channels and hanging like xmas ornaments. Dunno about density / time it'll take for each batch.... depends i guess.

And most people size their cast bullets anyway.. so....

NE Bull · « **Reply #3 on:** December 11, 2011, 06:36:10 PM »

Brother and I run copper plated bullets for most of our stuff (only we buy them ready-to-load). They seem to work well.

unfy · « **Reply #4 on:** December 11, 2011, 06:54:21 PM »

Quote from: NE Bull on December 11, 2011, 06:36:10 PM

Brother and I run copper plated bullets for most of our stuff (only we buy them ready-to-load). They seem to work well.

For plinking, I don't mind berry's cheap plated bullets. Still over twice the cost of bought-lead bullets tho. Soooo am looking into plating them myself.

unfy · « **Reply #5 on:** December 11, 2011, 08:22:40 PM »

measured out 1.5" spots and notched the top of the tub with a file to hold copper tubing in place (to hang the bullets from into solution).

dimensions ? pulled out of my arse.

i'll prolly notch the copper tubing with a pipe cutter to make hanging more uniform later.

a pipe bender woulda be handy

SemperFiGuy · « **Reply #6 on:** December 11, 2011, 09:31:02 PM »

I Wuz Gonna Say.............

For Pete's sake, just go buy BerrysBullets and the Hell With It!!!

Then I realized that you would probably come back with:

"Fer Cryin' Out Loud, Why are You Reloading 9mm's Anyhow?? You're losing about 5 cents/loaded cartridge considering all your equipment and you're taking all that time besides."

So I decided to keep my mouth shut.

Looks like you're having some Really Good Guy/Shooter Fun.

sfg

lefty · « **Reply #7 on:** December 11, 2011, 09:43:17 PM »

Jelly jar or the size you need, if don't have a bender.
Old gas man's trick.

unfy · « **Reply #8 on:** December 11, 2011, 09:43:53 PM »

It's ... well... I think this officially makes it a hobby.

Also...... I'm kicking myself. Was looking through Home Depot for an acid... and couldn't really come up with anything. I know "The Works" toilet bowl cleaner is 20% HCl acid... but... dunno what the rest is.

Came across something but it had no f'ing contents label on it.... which was pissing me off.

http://www.wmbarr.com/product.aspx?catid=32&prodid=81

According to the MSDS -- that's 35-45% phosphoric acid! Which should suit my needs just fine

. (A suitable etching solution so don't have to wire-brush / steel wool all of the stuff to be plated).

Oh well, I'll just fetch that next weekend.

So pissed though.... if it was just f'ing labeled i woulda bought it on the spot.

unfy · « **Reply #9 on:** December 11, 2011, 09:49:43 PM »

Quote from: lefty on December 11, 2011, 09:43:17 PM

Jelly jar or the size you need, if don't have a bender.
Old gas man's trick.

had some luck with a toothpick holder that was approx right size.

but... this is all just experimental for now so it doesn't have to be super pretty.

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oh, and SFG: after this initial setup, plating bullets should only cost electricity + time and the occaisional cost of replacing the copper donor plate.

SemperFiGuy · « **Reply #10 on:** December 11, 2011, 09:58:02 PM »

unfy..............

Wuz wonderin'..

How are you going to do your deposition thickness quality checks to make sure all your bullets have the same plating thickness and uniform symmetry of deposition all around the bullet??

Or will it even make any difference at all??

[ps - BerrysBullets website has info on their own plating thickness that might be of some comparative use to you and other plater guys.]

Also, I've used my 12v DC car battery trickle charger and Lincoln pennies to plate stuff for science projects for the grandkids. So if/when your present power source gives out, you can try your trickle charger and see if it does the job.

sfg

unfy · « **Reply #11 on:** December 11, 2011, 10:22:50 PM »

donor tube smashed, dunno how well it'll work....

zepp desolving in the background.

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re: penny & trickle charge

yup, many ppl have done this with car chargers in the past

.

uniform thickness -- maybe if i get some way of circulating the solution i can garuntee a better coat. work in progress and all that.

this should be a good power supply... it looks like it's regulated and all of that.

for measuring thickness, calipers will do for now (before and after).

as far as all bullets having similar thickness, prolly just hope they do the same and base it off of time in the bath. again, circulating liquid would prolly help.

unfy · « **Reply #12 on:** December 11, 2011, 11:12:39 PM »

Quarter was scratched up with a brush, bathed in acetone then distilled water, it's currently plating.

within the first 20-30 seconds you can WATCH it plate.

this may be *way* too fast.... we'll see after 10min...

unfy · « **Reply #13 on:** December 11, 2011, 11:18:57 PM »

10min in the bath.

unfy · « **Reply #14 on:** December 11, 2011, 11:25:11 PM »

indeed it might be too fast. it retains some a copper sheen, but a lot of it just rubs off.

prolly need to lower the power input.

bkoenig · « **Reply #15 on:** December 12, 2011, 10:17:26 AM »

Interesting. I have used electrolysis to remove nasty fouling from a rifle bore. Basically the same thing but with a c cell battery for power and the current flowing the opposite direction so it pulls gunk off instead of plating it on.

unfy · « **Reply #16 on:** December 12, 2011, 12:28:42 PM »

bkoenig: same concept yup.

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BTW -- I was a bit too excited last night and forgot to mention some obvious safety stuffs.

Copper Sulfate is very nasty in high concetrations. guano can make you very sick even if it gets under your finger nails and then you chew your nails afterwards. Sooo... yeah, take care. Although I wasn't wearing them when it came to actually plating the quarter, I usually wear latex gloves. That way if any gets on me, the glove gets thrown away...... just in case I rub my eyes later, etc.

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Today I stopped by Menards on the way to work for some more supplies. While I was there, since it's a different store, I looked for similar supplies as to last time. There was no Zepp root killer, but there was some Root Gone:

http://www.heartlandlabs.com/images/rootgone_000.jpg

It, too, is a 99% copper sulfate thing.

Also while there, I was looking for some etching acid. There were some small bottles by Rustoleum that had acid warnings but no actual contents / percentages. Instead, grabbed some muriatic acid for $4. Silly historical names

. Muratic acid is hydrochloric acid. It's Sunny Side white label branded, 31.45% HCl.

This should etch the lead just nicely to allow better coating.

Working with acids requires A LOT of safety precautions. Stay away from fumes, wear long sleeve shirts or other protective gear (eye stuff!), and some rubber gloves and jug of oh-guano water prolly aint a bad idea.

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The copper coat on my quarter survived the morning in my pocket with no real signs of wear. There's a few shiny spots, from rubbing around and stuff, but they're *copper* shiny, not typical quarter shiny

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Tonight I'll clean try some more experimentation and post pics (naturally).

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Edit: updated acid stuffs

unfy · « **Reply #17 on:** December 12, 2011, 08:55:31 PM »

Switched to a different metal... some... computer back plate things. Buffed, acetone, water, plate.

6v (4 D cells), 10min.

Didn't... come out that great.

and then rubbing it off:

.... dunno if i need more time & better polishing or.... if it doesn't like the receiving metal...

unfy · « **Reply #18 on:** December 12, 2011, 10:32:35 PM »

I had zero luck getting a washer to plate (at 6v nor 13v). It all just rubbed off

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Moving on to lead, at 13v 10min i get:

the black means it's way over current'd.

i'm now attempting a 3V bullet.

unfy · « **Reply #19 on:** December 12, 2011, 11:02:05 PM »

3V at 20min.

It generally kept it's color much better.... but a lot rubbed off....

next one will be 1.5v.

i prolly need to use an acid etcher here soon or clean it better or something.