Why no handloads for the class?

[bk09]

I'm looking at taking a ccw class with Nebraska Firearms Training and noticed there are no handloads allowed in the class. Chris if you read this can you explain why? I have a beef against buying factory ammo unless it is .22lr. Trust me if I could reload .22lr I would  .

After writing this I have thought of another question for ya'll. Does your carry gun have handloads or do you use factory loads?

[armed and humorous]

bradkoll:

I can't answer for your instructor, but I'd bet that there are banned because there are too many people who don't know what they're doing, and the chances of misfires, hangfires, and exploding gun barrels is more than the teacher wants to risk.

[NENick]

bradkoll:

I can't answer for your instructor, but I'd bet that there are banned because there are too many people who don't know what they're doing, and the chances of misfires, hangfires, and exploding gun barrels is more than the teacher wants to risk.

I've never met anyone who has had an accident with a reload. Have you?

I feel like being concerned about reloads, and this subject, are quite similar to how I am questioned non-concealed carriers. Most people are responsible.

[Wildgoose]

I've never met anyone who has had an accident with a reload. Have you?

Yes. And seen damaged firearms as a result. I shoot a lot. And in many diffrent venues. Out of the thousands of rounds I have seen down range at years of competition and hunting it has not happened often but it has happened to both newer and experienced re-loaders. Most of whom I would not consider to be either stupid or careless.

[00BUCK]

I reload - but wil never carry reloads in my CCW gun. The legal ramifications could be very costly. The prosecutors can and will use that against you. "Your loads were more deadly than store bought - so you went out with your gun with the sole intention of killing someone" - why give them more than they already have to use against you?

[JTH]

I've never met anyone who has had an accident with a reload. Have you?

Absolutely.  Have seen a number of squib rounds, and the occasional double-charged round.  Luckily, these were all at USPSA matches, where in each occasion there was an RO paying attention specifically to that shooter, and stopped them (in the case of the squibs) before a second (potentially catastrophic) shot could occur.  In the case of the double-charged round----well, luckily no one got hurt, though the magazine did do a great job of becoming a projectile as it was blasted out of the gun.

As has been said, some teachers (remember, teachers don't only see students who are diligent, motivated, and pain-staking in their work and practice--just ask any state CCW class instructor) don't want to have to deal with potential dangerous ammo problems in their classes, so they mandate factory ammo.  This is actually quite common.  Many teachers don't do this---but many do. 

[Chris C]

In one of Shawn’s advanced class’ I took at the Bullet Hole a guy was using reloads and was having quite a few failure to fire’s.  IMHO when taking any shooting class it’s best to use store bought ammo and definitely for carry ammo.  You will get more out of the class being problem free.   

[sjwsti]

In one of Shawn’s advanced class’ I took at the Bullet Hole a guy was using reloads and was having quite a few failure to fire’s.  IMHO when taking any shooting class it’s best to use store bought ammo and definitely for carry ammo.  You will get more out of the class being problem free.   

I have always allowed reloads in my classes, I just ask that they are FMJ and not lead. The vast majority of students use factory ammo. Of those that bring reloads the failure rate is quite high.

It never made sense to me that a student would bring an untested load to a class. This also applies to those who purchase factory ammo that they have never shot through their gun before, only to find out during class that it wont function. Ive even had students bring weapons that were malfunctioning prior to taking a class and never bothered to find out why. This not only wastes their time but everyone else's as well. I'm only going to help you so much and then we will move on, with or without you.

Most class requirements will include bringing a good working handgun. Your ammo selection has to be included in that.
 
Just like Chris said you will get much more out of any class if your problem free.

- Shawn 

[bullit]

New Jersey v. Bias (Daniel) is the classic case cited for not using handloads as a primary choice of concealed carry/self-defense.

[SemperFiGuy]

BRADKOLL:

Your Reloads are Pristine Gems of Perfection........

Mine are Entirely Adequate for Most Target Shooting and Practice Purposes,

But.........The Other Guy???    He's Not Always as Proficient or as Careful At Making Reloads As He Should Be.

So Let's Minimize as Many Dangerous Variables in CHP Handgun Qualification Shooting as We Can.

Any CHP Instructor Will Tell You That There are PLENTY!!!!!

sfg
PS - Why Leave UNL to transfer to UNO in the Fall??   Just Kurious

[bk09]

BRADKOLL:

Your Reloads are Pristine Gems of Perfection........

Mine are Entirely Adequate for Most Target Shooting and Practice Purposes,

But.........The Other Guy???    He's Not Always as Proficient or as Careful At Making Reloads As He Should Be.

So Let's Minimize as Many Dangerous Variables in CHP Handgun Qualification Shooting as We Can.

Any CHP Instructor Will Tell You That There are PLENTY!!!!!

sfg
PS - Why Leave UNL to transfer to UNO in the Fall??   Just Kurious

Never really liked it here. Classes are usually taught by teachers assistants or some grad student who could care less and wants to make an extra buck. Pride in my fraternity kept me here but when excessive amounts of people started getting DUI's or in trouble with the law and lost respect for others and their belongings I decided it isn't worth it. Plus several funeral homes I asked to job shadow at shot me down for no good reason (want to be a funeral director) and I have a lead at one of the funeral homes in Omaha.

Well that stinks that people who don't take time to develop loads for their guns and take time to test them ruin it for the rest of us. Oh well I guess I will poison my J frame to be with factory loads.

[Chris Z]

Sorry I didn't see this earlier..... haven't been able to spend much time on the forums browsing.

I ask for folks to bring factory ammo, because we have an extremely busy day and I don't have time to jack around with someone's gun and ammo that doesn't work.

Has anyone brought reloads to the class that were quality and had not issues? Of course? Did I notice? Maybe, maybe not! Did I say anything??? Only if the darn stuff doesn't work  :-)

[Gunscribe]

My sentiments exactly Chris.

Having to play nursemaid to, or make special allowances for, one (or more) student/s when their whiz bang super accurate always dependable reloaded ammo doesn't work takes away from the other students who are their to learn.

If you paid a lot of good hard earned Yankee dollars to be a student in a class with one of those "I know what the hell I'm doing at the reloading bench I don't know why it is jamming up today it never has before experts" you would be pissed off that I have to spend most of my time molly coddling some yahoo who doesn't have enough respect for his fellow students to make sure his junk works before coming to class.

And please don't tell me that is the gun and or ammo you will be carrying on the street.

[Husker_Fan]

I reload and test my loads for function in my guns.  I also have shot with folks who had a terrible time with jams and it turned out they just followed a "recipe" from a website.

Reloading is an art, and you have to make sure your powder charge is safe, but strong enough to cycle your gun.  Cartridge overall length must allow for proper headspacing, fit in the magazine, and feed properly.

I've had loads that I tweaked in one way or another and now I have detailed notes on what loads work as well as factory in my handguns.  Others, not so much.

[SemperFiGuy]

PEOPLE GET STRANGE ON THE RANGE

>Had two revolver shooters doing CHP range qualification Saturday.   Both shot OK.   But the hands of both were shaking seriously every time they pushed the ejector rods on their handguns.   They could barely clear the cylinders after each string of fire.   These were grown men; experienced shooters.   But somehow they lose it at the range.

>I've had Muzzle Sweepers on the line.   Way too many.   Shooters who turn around while on the firing line and turn their handguns with them.   Endangering the whole line.

>Had people show up with Ruger Single Sixes, no spare cylinders.   [Try to line up the cylinders to eject the empty cases in the dark recesses of a firing range!!!]

>Had people show up with M1911s in .45ACP.    Brought .45GAP ammo.    "Cabela's sold it to me...."

>Had people show up with Dirty, Dirty, Dirty Gunked-up handguns that would barely cycle.   [Not Glocks.   Glocks work dirty.   Maybe even better dirty; takes up some of the dimensional slop.]

>Had Limp Wristers galore with resulting FTEs, stovepipes, whatever.

>Had shooters show up with a baggie of handloads, all with bulged cases.   [Were they ever resized??   If not, how did they get the old primers out??]

>Had Just About Everything Else that Can be Had in the Way of Bad Range Practice.

In the meantime, while all the above is going on, the Good Shooters have to stand by at the Ready Position, waiting for the Problem(s) to be Solved.

With all the above Joys of Shooting, problems with Sloppy Handloads are Just Not Needed.   Nor Wanted.    Nor allowed.

Show up with a clean Glock, Winchester White Box Factory Ammo, Safe Shooting Habits, and Quickly Qualify.

No Handloads/Reloads during Certification/Range Qualification, please.


sfg

[bk09]

PEOPLE GET STRANGE ON THE RANGE

>Had two revolver shooters doing CHP range qualification Saturday.   Both shot OK.   But the hands of both were shaking seriously every time they pushed the ejector rods on their handguns.   They could barely clear the cylinders after each string of fire.   These were grown men; experienced shooters.   But somehow they lose it at the range.

>I've had Muzzle Sweepers on the line.   Way too many.   Shooters who turn around while on the firing line and turn their handguns with them.   Endangering the whole line.

>Had people show up with Ruger Single Sixes, no spare cylinders.   [Try to line up the cylinders to eject the empty cases in the dark recesses of a firing range!!!]

>Had people show up with M1911s in .45ACP.    Brought .45GAP.    "Cabela's sold it to me...."

>Had people show up with Dirty, Dirty, Dirty Gunked-up handguns that would barely cycle.   [Not Glocks.   Glocks work dirty.   Maybe even better dirty; takes up some of the dimensional slop.]

>Had Limp Wristers galore with resulting FTEs, stovepipes, whatever.

>Had shooters show up with a baggie of handloads, all with bulged cases.   [Were they ever resized??   If not, how did they get the old primers out??]

>Had Just About Everything Else that Can be Had in the Way of Bad Range Practice.

In the meantime, while all the above is going on, the Good Shooters have to stand by at the Ready Position, waiting for the Problem(s) to be Solved.

With all the above Joys of Shooting, problems with Sloppy Handloads are Just Not Needed.   Nor Wanted.    Nor allowed.

Show up with a clean Glock, Winchester White Box Factory Ammo, Safe Shooting Habits, and Quickly Qualify.

No Handloads/Reloads during Certification/Range Qualification, please.


sfg

I actually have planned to show up with a Glock and Winchester White Box. Guess I will have another hundred pieces of once shot brass after the class.

[Lmbass14]

Agree with Brad. Even if I did reload, (wish I could, but there is SOMEONE in our house that thinks that reloading is a bad thing), I wouldn't just due to being respectful to the other students.  There to learn, not to try out that brand new firearm that has never been shot with reloads.  It's worth the little extra money for a box of WWB or Federal.

[SemperFiGuy]

THE DIRTY LITTLE SECRET ABOUT RELOADING

Unless a shooter shoots a Whole Big Bunch of ammo each year, reloading may well be more expensive that buying the same caliber in quantity by watching the store specials and the sales.

Because, you gotta have....

>Reloading Press
>Reloading Dies in Your Caliber(s)
>Shellholders  [Not sold w/Reloading Dies]
>Case Tumbler or Some Kinda Case Cleaning Device
>Case Lube  [Spray and Tub]
>Chronograph
>Reloading Handbooks  [Hornady, Lee, Speer, Lyman, and Others of Choice]
>Precision Micrometer
>Various Other Gauges [Headspace, Go/No-Go, etc., etc.]
>Precision Powder Scale
>Reloading Bench
>Swivel Chair w/Rollers
>Primer Loading Tool
>Case Trimmer and Accessories
>Stuck Case Remover  [Yes, You Do!!]
>An Entire Whole Bunch of Little and Medium Sized Specialty Gizmo Tools That Cost Way More Than They are Worth
>A Radio   [To Listen to Armed America While Reloading]
>Storage Cabinets, Bins, Containers, Whatever

>A Room or Space Dedicated to All of the Above Stuff, Including Light and Heat.

>Total Lack of Concern for the Value of Your Own Time on a Per Hour Basis


And You Still Gotta Buy Bullets, Powder, and Primers.    Plus occasional lots and batches of cartridge brass.

So when you tote up all these so-called hidden costs [You Have to Hide Them From Your Wife], the reloaded stuff is probably premium price.   For that price, you could shoot Self-Defense Hollow Points down range for practice.

With all the above, I'm still gonna do it.    Did some already this morning.   Gonna do some more tonight.

Can't help it.

sfg

[JimP]

I've never met anyone who has had an accident with a reload. Have you?

I know 2 guys on this board who have had Ka-booms with reloads ......

Other than the "taking others time" thing (and I have had an issue during one of the IDPA mini-matches they used to have  at a local indoor rangewith ammo I bought at the range ) and the liability thing, there is also the idea that holding a class at your range might help sell some ammo ...... allowing reloads negates this possibility.  I don't have a problem with it- that's a business decision and if the market supports it, then it is the right one.

[Chris Z]

We show a Glock 22 in our CCW class that was blown to pieces with reloads........... By someone who "knows what he is doing".......... (no sarcasm, he is a friend and fellow firearms Instructor). He just had a bad day one day and accidentally double charged a round.

By the way it wasn't one of the internet hyped "unsupported Glock barrel", it was a brand new KKM match barrel. If I could figure out how to post a picture here, I will post it