Panetta removes ban on women in combat

[UPCrawfish]

http://www.bigstory.ap.org/article/panetta-removes-military-ban-women-combat-opening-thousands-front-line-positions

[NENick]

Diluting the force.

[wallace11bravo]

[Insert rant]

[SemperFiGuy]

Most Interesting............

Combat assignments will probably be set up to be optional for the girls, but mandatory for the guys.

Hard to believe that it has happened.

We live now in the Twilight Days of a Once-Great Nation.   [Can't really believe that I'm seeing these times and making these statements.]

sfg

[A-FIXER]

[Insert rant]

Again Again Again and Again.....

[Mudinyeri]

OK, I'm probably opening another can of worms here, but what the heck ....  Assuming the qualifications and requirements for a given position are the same for men and women how does this weaken the force?

And before anyone gets on their high horse suggesting that I don't have a clue because I haven't served ... I have.  I've served next to men and women that I wouldn't want protecting the neighborhood kids' lemonade stand from a couple third graders and I've served next to men and women who I'd be happy to put my life in their hands.  Gender had little, if anything, to do with it.

[RedDot]

Sooo....Do we draft them too? We've already lowered standards to increase recruiting numbers and created "gender neutral" training standards. Do we lower combat readiness standards for units with female personnel?  Will it take the ACLU more or less than 30 seconds to file a lawsuit for the first denial of combat status to a female on the basis of "unfairly-biased standards" ?

Just offering what I think are legitimate questions, I don't have a set for or against opinion other than I don't want my daughter put out on the sharp end.

[A-FIXER]

err.....  SEX   in the field??......

[A-FIXER]

I'm asking for it give it to me and don't forget about voiding ''Don't ask Don't tell" Group in the field

[Mudinyeri]

... and don't forget about voiding ''Don't ask Don't tell" Group in the field

That group is already having sex in the field.

[A-FIXER]

That group is already having sex in the field.

Irks............. all over myself..... not when I was in the Corps, and just to point out another....

The first female pilot had the standard lowered as men must not passout at 4gs and the female standard was lower to 2 and never passed the standard fast forward hundreds of hrs in simulator and on her first landing on carrier crashes killing herself co-pilot and 4 seman manning just below the flightdeck, I would not want a woman in combat as the psychic is not animal enough to stab someone in the eye or slit a throat of another your can kiss your can goodbye don't assume because you watched Laura Kroft eliminates the world is real. As for me there will not be women in my FIRETEAM....Period...

[JimP]

Having been a cannon cocker for Uncle Sam for a good portion of my yout' ..... I understand the problems associated with living and working in isolated, primitive conditions for extended periods of time with a group of young men ..... things were stressfull enough without adding sex into the mix.

There was some recently retired General on KFAB this AM, saying that standards and training would be developed to prevent sex from becoming a problem...... Hooey!  The CentCom Commander could not keep it in his pants, so how the hell does he think Pvt. Sam Snuffy, Pvt. Sally Smittens and Sgt. Dan D. Mann are going to do everything they are supposed to and nothing they are not while living together in a hole in the ground on some FOB somewhere?  We are supposed to believe that the inevitable ensuing shenanigans will in no way affect mission capability? REALLY? 

Hooey. 

His argument for implementing this was that by not allowing the 15% of soldiers whao are female to participate in combat roles, we are not using all of our potential, and in a time of having to do more with less, we can't afford to do that.

I say that by spending all the time and effort to accomodate the the very tiny percent of that 15% that could actually do the jobs in question (Seriously: how many women do you know that could hack it as a Light Infantyman (Infantrywoman?) or Cannon Crewmember?)we are doing something that is not only detrimental to the force we have, it is a misuse of that time and effort, in that the military is in the business of killing people and breaking stuff.  Venturing into PC Gender-Equity social engineering is outside of their scope of practice.  Let's see if we can concentrate on the stuff they are supposed to be doing, and leave the Gender Equity stuff to Liberal Arts Professors .......

[Mudinyeri]

Irks............. all over myself..... not when I was in the Corps ...

They were when I was in the Army ... which is why I don't believe the sex argument holds any water.

[bkoenig]

Not having ever served myself I don't know enough to really have an educated opinion, but I would hope they don't lower standards.  Unfortunately, the news report I heard on NPR sounded like that's exactly what they're thinking of doing.  They reported the DOD has directed the different branches to review their standards and determine if they're "too demanding".

[WESchultz]

Food for thought? I believe in Israel men and women fight side by side. Most Israelis are drafted into the military at the age of 18. Men serve three years and women two to three years.[261] Following mandatory service, Israeli men join the reserve forces and usually do up to several weeks of reserve duty every year until their forties. Most women are exempt from reserve duty. Arab citizens of Israel (except the Druze) and those engaged in full-time religious studies are exempt from military service, although the exemption of yeshiva students has been a source of contention in Israeli society for many years.[262][263] An alternative for those who receive exemptions on various grounds is Sherut Leumi, or national service, which involves a program of service in hospitals, schools and other social welfare frameworks.[264] As a result of its conscription program, the IDF maintains approximately 176,500 active troops and an additional 445,000 reservists.[265

[Phantom]

Irks............. all over myself..... not when I was in the Corps, and just to point out another....

A-FIXER your quite a bit late to get irked ......when i Took basic in the Army (Jan, 1980) our basic training company was 3 platoon's of males and one platoon of females.

I remember they let them use our rifles to shoot for record on the firing range.
and later when we when through solider states  (testing for those nonmilitary members)

They paired a bunch of us up with a Female solider and it was our task to get our self's and her through the testing.
(testing was done in buddy pairs)

( Found out later why they used our Rifles....they'd never had to cleaned them all through out basic training.

The rifle barrels were packed solid with sand & dirt it was almost like they were filled with cement.

Yea! you guessed it....

We all got the fun to clean them for them....so they could do their final turn in before leaving for their AIT or their duty stations. )

Then later when I was in the reserves there were lots of women in lots of diffrent Mos's until i transfered out of transportation units and over in to the combat arms ones.

Well I'm too old to serve these days and they wouldn't take me any longer anyways on medical grounds
even is i wasn't an old fart now.
 

[A-FIXER]

A-FIXER your quite a bit late to get irked ......when i Took basic in the Army (Jan, 1980) our basic training company was 3 platoon's of males and one platoon of females.

When I served no women in my platoon, yes they were in service but I guess thats what makes the Corps different than the Army. And as it seems that anything goes todays Armed Forces.

 I still get irked it just a shame they would do the things they do.... I was speaking of queers.

But if the current armed forces is anything like days of old then would it not make sense to understand simply that.... you been in the field and you have not had the pleasure of a woman for months and seek that pleasure whats to stop you from engaging with a woman consensual or not in the field, and if she was a willing partner and someone meaner and stronger and also above your rank, says that meat is mine and takes her for his team. What are the chances that you would leave your assigned task and seek her out to protect her, what of those other men you just abandoned who depended on you to cover there butts, die because you left your post and now your out on a recon-mission to find her. Would he not put a bullet in the back of that dudes head or what if she wanted to go because of the better Bennie's, and takes them both out it is still a lose... lose situation. 
 
Lets go to a completely different tier, ''if there are some women.... manning up to do the combat, then what of those who don't want to fights and are sent against their wishes or desires''

And when the CO says grab your $hit and move we will take that hill/building/ridge and make it secure! What of those women who don't have the will or spirit and put their hand in a pile of goo that just moments ago was your buddies head, is combat a place for women I say no if not just for the instances I just posted, However there may be those who think that they could stomach it could they then if needed carry a 200+ jarhead any length of distance?..... Physically it not on equal fields regardless of the modern argument.

But again this is a view from an Old Jarhead.

[msspatz]

When I served in Desert Storm we were paid as combat soliders I may have not been on the front lines but I made it all up into Iraq.  Back then I would have fought with my teeth if I had to to make sure any of my counterparts were in danger.   Still would if I was still in.  Heck I even threatened the media cause they were in my face trying to find out infromation. Yes there are some females that shouldn't even see combat but some would be excellent in it.  Some guys I wouldn't trust either so it goes both ways.  I know women don't have brute strength like you guys so I can see why they wouldn't do near as well in hand to hand combat.  I do believe that if a woman knows she can't handle front line combat then she probably won't choose that kind of career in the military.  And just because I'm female doesn't mean I can't do it I never let some male help me out maybe cause I was hard headed and I loved what I was doing I did however see the weak little females do everything they could possible to get all there stuff taken care of by some other guy which pissed me off.  I guess I had more pride and was more of a tom boy that any of them.  Hmm guess that's why I love my guns the way I do.  I'm just saying you can't put every female in the weakling catagory some of us were actually great soliders others not so much.  If this happens and they do put women on the front lines I hope to god they put them through some tough training cause they are going to need it if they want that kind of career in the military.

[Gary]

the first bunch of women pows will make interesting news.

[msspatz]

True it would but it might not even make the news too only because there was some stuff that went on over in Desert Storm that wasn't released to the public only to not give the military a bad name at the time.  I do know there were a few POW women in Desert Storm and a few MIA's.  So it just goes to show you that we do serve in the combat areas.