A question about what CCW training should be....

[ILoveCats]

If you have a CCW permit, you aren't a cop.  Don't act like one.  And don't portray yourself as one.

Amen -- Best line in the thread right there.  A badge is something is earned, not bought.  It identifies the bearer as a public servant.  There simply is no such thing as a "concealed weapons permit badge".  It's oxymoron.  It does not exist.

Feralcatkillr's list of things that simply DO NOT exist....

1. Unloaded Gun

2. Shaken Martini (sorry, but James Bond was a putz in this regard)

3. Vodka Martini (this posting brought to you courtesy of Tanqueray gin)

3. Chocolate Martini (unless you're 22 years old and named Stacey, Tracy or Misty Lee)

4. Frozen Strawberry Margarita (unless you're a 56 y.o. man who pretends to be a 22 y.o. named Misty Lee)

5. CCW Badge

[stutzcattle]

I contacted the state patrol officer that was listed earlier by email and also left a voicemail for him.  He has not contacted me.  I hate to see anyone in the gun world taken down, but this guy is a danger to the public and is doing no one a service but himself.  Of the 25 people that took his first class here, I know of only about 3 that are truly qualified to carry a gun.  I have spent a ton of time with my wife teaching her to shoot and she also attended the cornered cat class that was listed on this site.  Most of the people in his class arrived with no training and left with no training. 

[TwoSwords]

Nebraska's CCW training is some of the most complex compared to the states bordering, NE.

Concealed draw should be taught in a more advanced class IMHO.

But they made the rules.

NE - Fail the written - good bye
KS - Open book - Review of all the questions.
MO - No written Test

KS - 8 hrs
MO - 8 hrs

KS - 3,7,10 yards  3-yards is one handed
MO - Everything 7 yards,  must qual. with Revolver and Semi (Yes Odd I know)

Costs:   NE  - $125  going rate
             KS -  $65 and up
             MO-  $65 and up









 

[bullit]

NE - Fail the written - good bye

You do have to have mind of mush however to fail Nebraska's written exam.  To date, I know of no one who has from any of my trainer colleagues....

[GreyGeek]

You do have to have mind of mush however to fail Nebraska's written exam.

You give the written test too much credit! 

Even if one never read any material, slept through class and didn't look at the laws on CCW and just made logical guesses one could pass that test.   Stay awake in class and one should get 100%.

[UPCrawfish]

Stay awake in class and one should get 100%.

+1.....If you have an animated and engaging instructor as did I, you won't dare fall asleep !!

[bullit]

If you have an animated and engaging instructor as did I, you won't dare fall asleep !!

Especially is the rumor is true of the instructor lighting one off during the lecture.....

[ghknives]

A hidden expense that increases class cost is insurance. Some states have enacted laws that instructors can not be held liable for the mistakes of past students. Not so in Nebraska. Insurance like this is expensive and the cost is passed down to the students often making our classes more expensive than other states that have similar requirements.

[metaldoc]

I contacted the state patrol officer that was listed earlier by email and also left a voicemail for him.  He has not contacted me.   

Thanks for the update.

Hopefully there is or will be some investigation into this.  The NSP may not want to make an investigation public yet.

 With that thought, I wonder if any NFOA  members are state troopers?

[Chris Z]

I can assure you that NSP investigates issues with CHP instructors all the time, and they are not public about it. They often go undercover and pose as students taking the class. There is no better way for them to get the true story

[OnTheFly]

Of the 25 people that took his first class here, I know of only about 3 that are truly qualified to carry a gun.  I have spent a ton of time with my wife teaching her to shoot and she also attended the cornered cat class that was listed on this site.  Most of the people in his class arrived with no training and left with no training. 

Maybe a better word than "qualified" would be "proficient". In my opinion, everyone that has passed the NSP background check and has been issued a CHP was "Qualified" to carry before they were ever issued the CHP. It is just that the state requires a card to demonstrate that qualification.

With that said, the people who attend one of these classes cannot expect it to teach them everything they need to know about concealed carry and/or gun safety. In my opinion, people come to these classes expecting it to BBB all, and all of concealed carry knowledge. While many of these instructors have a great amount of information to impart on the students, there is no way that an eight hour course is all that is needed. The students have to take it upon themselves to further their knowledge, and become more proficient with their firearm.

There was one student in my class who was barely familiar with gun safety, let alone the gun that he had just purchased to carry concealed. I am CDO about my profession and hobbies, so I may be the exception, but I wouldn't consider going to any class without having the fundamentals down at the bare minimum.

 Just my opinion, but these students need to spend more time before and after the class becoming proficient.

Fly

[Gary]

Maybe a better word than "qualified" would be "proficient". In my opinion, everyone that has passed the NSP background check and has been issued a CHP was "Qualified" to carry before they were ever issued the CHP. It is just that the state requires a card to demonstrate that qualification.

With that said, the people who attend one of these classes cannot expect it to teach them everything they need to know about concealed carry and/or gun safety. In my opinion, people come to these classes expecting it to BBB all, and all of concealed carry knowledge. While many of these instructors have a great amount of information to impart on the students, there is no way that an eight hour course is all that is needed. The students have to take it upon themselves to further their knowledge, and become more proficient with their firearm.

There was one student in my class who was barely familiar with gun safety, let alone the gun that he had just purchased to carry concealed. I am CDO about my profession and hobbies, so I may be the exception, but I wouldn't consider going to any class without having the fundamentals down at the bare minimum.

 Just my opinion, but these students need to spend more time before and after the class becoming proficient.

Fly

Very Well Said! 

[dcjulie]

The purpose of the State CCW class (the class that students take in order to be able to get their permit) is to teach the students about the laws and evaluate a minimum of proficiency with their gun.  It is NOT to teach them to shoot.  It is NOT to teach them all about guns, shooting, holsters, etc.  People taking this class should come into the class already knowing how to shoot safely, and how to draw from concealment - safely. 

I have had people ask me about the class and whether or not it is a shooting class - meaning, does the class teach them to shoot or make them a better shooter.  When I tell them that it is not for complete beginners, they ask why not.  When I explain the purpose of the class, they decide they understand why it can't be a shooting fundamentals class.  There is too much required information to cover in a day.  I am not in favor of mandatory training/education about guns.  However, I do feel that anyone who owns or wants to own a gun should take the time needed to learn to be safe and proficient.  It saddens me, and scares me, when I see people out on the range who have NO CLUE how to use a gun safely.  The thought that these people would be able to pass a CCW class is frightening.

[Gary]

Every year, how many people loose feet, because they do not understand the principals of a newly acquired lawnmower?  How many people end up confined to a wheelchair, or confine someone else to a wheelchair, because they do not understand how to operate a motor vehicle well?

People over their heads, is not limited to handgun usage.

[GreyGeek]

The students have to take it upon themselves to further their knowledge, and become more proficient with their firearm.

Very true.   The more they study and practice the less likely they will be victims of their own carelessness.   However, even the most experienced can experience an accident.  That's why they call them "accidents".  A recent example is the two dead Special FBI agents killed during training.   The YouTube is filled with negligent discharge videos.   One occurred almost two years ago, when a fellow shot himself with his Kimberly .45 ACP while practicing a fast draw with a new holster that required thumbing a lever to release the gun from the holster.  He received a lot of ridicule and mockery from those who consider themselves perfect and incapable of making a mistake.    A year later he discussed the accident and, like he did before, he took full responsibility and blame for it.   Here is his comment:


Accidents happen to those who attempt skills that are beyond their training, and it happens to those who consider themselves too well trained to have an accident.

[JTH]

The YouTube is filled with negligent discharge videos.   One occurred almost two years ago, when a fellow shot himself with his Kimberly .45 ACP while practicing a fast draw with a new holster that required thumbing a lever to release the gun from the holster.  He received a lot of ridicule and mockery from those who consider themselves perfect and incapable of making a mistake.

It didn't help that Tex Grebner is an idiot, with extremely poor gun-handling skills in the first place. 

I note that he shot himself while using a SERPA holster, which requires using your index (trigger) finger to actuate the release, not the thumb.  The holsters that require using the thumb (such as the various Safariland ALS holsters) are excellent, and do not in any way contribute to NDs.  The SERPAs, on the other hand, have.  (Those folks who are using SERPAs, you all catch that?)

That being said, the SERPA use isn't what caused him to shoot himself.  After taking the gun from the holster, sticking his trigger finger on the trigger and applying pressure on the .45 like it was a Glock was what caused him to shoot himself. 

He received a lot of ridicule and mockery because he is an idiot.  Some of which, I'm sure, came from people who thought they were too good to ever ND.  However, much of it came from the fact that he is an idiot.

Accidents happen to those who attempt skills that are beyond their training, and it happens to those who consider themselves too well trained to have an accident.

I'll completely agree with that.

[GreyGeek]

I note that he shot himself while using a SERPA holster, which requires using your index (trigger) finger to actuate the release, not the thumb.

Yup.  Now that you mention that I remembered it.  If I could only have remembered it while typing that post.       I used to have a pretty good memory.  Almost photographic.  (Note to those who use NutraSweet ... don't.  It is what killed my memory and affects about 10% of those who  use it.)   I still do have a good memory, but she doesn't read anything about firearms or watch videos, so I can't consult her on those topics.   However, if I had a kid in my class for three or four years, 35-40 years ago, and we see him at the Mall, or someplace,   she'll recall his name and remind me.  Amazing.


P.S.-- I generally avoid calling anyone an idiot.   We are all smart.  Some in one thing and some in another.  Likewise, we are all stupid ...etc.     No one is smart all the time, and no one is stupid all the time.   Mock someone today but be sure that someday your turn will come.

[Gary]

NutraSweet

Aspartame,  the chemical compound name, under about 50 other names as well,  is hidden in our food and  is really bad for everyone.    Flat out against the law to place this stuff in food in many areas of the world, including Hawaii.   Causes blindness in some.  Is hard on everyone's eyesight.

[Dan W]

This thread has gone too far off topic