Powder Coating Lead Bullets

[unfy]

brad: if ya don't end up doing it asap, lemme know when your next shift at cabela's is and i'll drop by for a bit of show and tell so ya can see what you're getting into.

It's easy, some folks have had great luck with the base down aluminum foil method (i suppose i could try reducing charge a bit if jig don't work out).  Although they could also be running a harder alloy than what I am.

As per my regular suggestion: post pics!


My short nap turned into a regular sleep .  So off to work, and will fiddle with jig tonight after work.

[bk09]

I work Friday morning. I would be interested in seeing how they turn out. I will probably try the basic method with the lead exposed on the bottom. Would be nice to cast 40 for my Glock and then PC them. If it turns out well then I will try it with my 500mag and then I won't have to mess with gas checks. BTW does anybody know how to make their own gas checks? I have seen pop can gas checks but I'm not sure if that's a good idea, would aluminum be more apt to scratching a barrel?

[SS_N_NE]

would aluminum be more apt to scratching a barrel?         

Aluminum oxidizes very quickly. The oxide coating is very hard and is what makes aluminum basically self-protecting. However, that coating is aluminum-oxide...yep, the stuff they use to make abrasive paper (sandpaper).

[unfy]

I'll be by Friday, then . 

The aluminum foil method is easy and gets you a starting point (which might be good enough for you).  Everyone should give it a go when they first start out.

Folks have all kinds of good luck with pistol rounds.  Rifle rounds appear a different thing all together (seemingly random reports).  Your 500s&w produces insane pressures and stuff in pistol round form, I can only imagine that PC won't be enough.  Would be interesting to hear how ya make out.... and if base coat helps any.

There's a guy that makes a gas check maker for use in small arbor presses.  Freechex is the name IIRC.  There are some plans online for machining your own (including youtube videos).  Several folks here have mentioned having lathes and mills and stuff

As long as you planned on shooting them 'soon' (a few months), I don't see aluminum being too evil.  Cans are pretty thin and if ya face the "painted" side out, it should have plenty of corrossion resistance.  Zinc flashing or similar can be had.. and zinc is supposed to be decent as a gas check.  Some folks claim it leaves a thin lining on barrel to help further reduce leading. Note: zinc plated washers would be a no no - that's *steel* with a bit of zinc on top heh.  Copper stuff can be had, but the flashing I work with for roofing would be a bit too thick.. you'd need to come up with a thinner gauge sheet of copper that didn't cost a fortune.


edit:

I love the guy's intro (first 30 sec)  to this video... hilarious and sounds like me

[unfy]

Converted failed jig into bullet lube groove holder using the 22ga wire.  Seems like it might do okay, I dunno.  Part of the fun will be seeing how the PC/wire separates at the lube grove (will a huge flake stick to the wire?).

Jig flips over easily for coating the nose of the bullets, and the bullets don't fall over or anything.

The wire isn't ultra high tension... but it's enough to cause the jig to bend/warp a little (dunno if it shows up in the pics).  You can adjust the wire by hand to get it more how ya want it.

Is this fairly easy to work with ? Sure.  Is it something I'd wanna do 1000 bullets with ? Not particularly.

[GreyGeek]

Pardon my ignorance ...   Is powder coating lead bullets cheaper than buying Copper jacketed bullets, or making Copper jacketed bullets?

[unfy]

Pardon my ignorance ...   Is powder coating lead bullets cheaper than buying Copper jacketed bullets, or making Copper jacketed bullets?

Jacketed bullets aint cheap.  Well, still makes hand loads 1/2 or less the cost of factory ammo (for pistol... save even more for rifle).... but compared to lead or plated/gilded... they aint cheap.

Berry's bullets are pretty cheap, they're copper plated...

Lead bullets are even cheaper.

Casting your own lead bullets ? Dirt cheap assuming you have inexpensive supply of lead.  At $2-$3 a pound for lead, that's between 5 and 6 cents a bullet.  There are cheaper places to get lead than those prices though.

Powdercoating - you can get a pound of powder coat powder for $5.  That $5 coats ALOT of bullets.  There are more expensive powders ($10-$20 is fairly normal) too if ya really have to go that route.


So, yes... powder coating your cast bullets is cheaper.

More importantly though - it removes the leading factor / problem for lead bullets.

Well, at least in standard pistol cartridges it does.... and I've not noticed any particular drop in precision / accuracy.

Been varying degrees of success with rifle (some folks lose any form of accuracy, some do wonderfully).

We'll have to see what bradkroll gets out of his s&w 500 .


Lastly, customizing ammo is fun.... as is tinkering.

[bkoenig]

Brad - I use aluminum gas checks on cast rifle bullets with no problems.  I buy them from thegascheckstore.com.  I thought about buying a DIY tool but they're cheap enough that it wasn't worth it to me.

[unfy]

Off topic, but i've looked into making own primers as well... or reloading existing primers.  Can be done, but the only 'simple' mixture for ease-at-home and not too special ends up being corrosive primers (not a problem assuming you clean your gun after every range trip or day of hunting).  Was going to take this further into looking into reloading 22lr heh.

I'm currently steering clear of it - got too many other things I'm working on ... and it requires a lot more attention to detail than I think I can easily give it at the moment.

Completely practical ? Not necessarily (although continued ammo and component shortages are making it more so).  Very feasible, yes.  Fun in customizing your ammo more completely ? Oh yes. Having more control from start to finish... or rather doing more of it yourself can be fun.

[GreyGeek]

Thanks for the info, Unfy.
BTW,  I really enjoy your postings about your experimentation, and they've been highly informative as well.   They make me wish I still had a brain.

[unfy]

Thanks for the info, Unfy.
BTW,  I really enjoy your postings about your experimentation, and they've been highly informative as well.   They make me wish I still had a brain.

Glad you enjoy them.  And informative is something of a pet peeve... seen plenty of posts / videos in other forums / blogs / etc and such where folks don't explain dick and it's infuriating. By attempting to explain some of my lunacy, others offer their own ideas and things improve overall.  Been awesome .

Annndddd... I'm sure after a year of reloading again you'll start to itch with ideas on stuff... and will hopefully start to safely tinker as well (and post things here about it hehehe) .
 

[unfy]

Bullets sat in the jig "overnight" (rather, through a sleep session)...then took them outside and PC'd them.  Getting them into the jig required a little bit of work on my part.  Not a whole lot mind you, but a bit.

Anyhoo, so... my tension isn't super tight but tight enough to warp the jig a little.  The bullets generally sat with wire in lube groove fairly easily.  There was enough slack in the wire to be able to fiddle with the wire to get things better (or make worse).  An example of making things worse worse, attempting to squeeze the wire so that it cupped the lube groove better would usually end up causing less tension on the bullet and it would fall through.

Most bullets did alright.  There was some thin spots that I'm willing to blame on myself rather than shadowing (I can't even use a rattle can correctly heh).

One bullet did end up cockeyed in the jig... it's visible in the left of the first picture and right of the second picture... and on the right of the very last picture (obvious line on ogive). I'm not sure when the cant took place - if it was after flipping the jig over to coat noses ... or if it was when flipping it over yet again to stick into the oven base up. 

Several bullets have wire contact marks touching where the edge of the lube groove meets the base driving band.

One bullet did actually slip out of the lube groove (second picture of row of bullets, third bullet).

It was getting late (as first few pictures show it's dark with a light) so I didn't bother attempting running another set of bullets through the jig (air compressor noise / neighbors).  Wire seems like it'd do just fine for more runs.  Dunno if will need to address conductivity or not (ie: the wire is now powder coated as well).


Now, if I were to suggest a better way to make this existing jig ...

a) don't use long bolts for the wire tension, deflection / warping is a concern

b) chainlink steel tension bars are probably better for holding the bolts in place than the 1/8th x 1/2 x 1/2 aluminum angle bar i was using (note: converting failed jig etc).  chainlink tension bars are cheap and decent if ya don't care about how they look.

c) place the "table" so that the "top" is in the middle and "legs" stick out 1.5 inches on either side (ie: so you can flip it over)... like a |-------| shape.

d) use short bolts akin to the wood setup where the screw is screwed all the way in (should help reduce deflection, increase tension, etc)


I brought supplies with me tonight to work on making the hollow pointing jig after work.  We shall see.  Hollow point molds can be had for $80-$120 though.

[bkoenig]

You can also modify your existing mold to drop hollow point bullets.

[bk09]

Looks like some painkillers in the background of the last picture UNFY. Giving you a headache figuring this out? lol

[unfy]

Looks like some painkillers in the background of the last picture UNFY. Giving you a headache figuring this out? lol

ROFL. Taken at my desk at work .  And yeah, ibuprofen.  More for my back than headaches hehehe.  Sorry about looking a mess, been a long night at work and then a bit of fiddling with hollow point drill guide stuff.

You can also modify your existing mold to drop hollow point bullets.

*You* might be able to... I don't have a lathe nor a mill nor .....


Hollow pointing jig.

* 2x2 piece of wood
* 5/16th's steel rod, cut to 3/4" in length

Found the drill size that matched some 6D nails (what I chose for PC jig).  Then picked a tiny size or two bigger to act as the drill guide.  Yeah, it's a one-off bit ya gotta buy separate.

Drilled a slightly smaller than 5/16th's hole in a 1x3 to hold the rod while was drilling the guide hole.

Anyhoo, attempted to drill down the center of it using a not so great drill press at work.  it's a bit off center .... but.. for proof of concept I'm content.  Also, the bit I was using has a 1 inch cutting depth... so ended up snapping the bit towards the end (original goal was a 1" guide hole, not 3/4" heh).

In the 2x2, drilled a slightly smaller than 5/16th's hole all the way through, then on the opposite end drilled a 13/32's hole.  13/32 ~= .406, I'm working with .40 bullets... so... yeah.  Turns out that PC without sizing them first - it's a snug fit in the hole (I forgot to bring an uncoated unsized bullet with me... unsized virgin casts fit properly).

Anyhoo, bullet base sticks out of the bottom of the board, allowing ya to push / clamp the piece of wood to something flat, thus holding the bullet in place (instead of free spinning).

Then use a hand drill (preferably slower speed) to drill out the hollow point.

I'll stick a nail or drill bit through the hole and use my calipers to see if I can spin the steel rod to try to center it better.

As of right now, the thickness of the wall of the hollow point at the outer tip of the nose/ogive is 0.105 along 3 axis, and 0.110 along the 'long' fourth axis.

We've got a better drill press at work, when I re-attempt it, can try with that thing.

[bkoenig]

I actually found a link a while back on how to convert a mold with a drill press.  I'll try to look it up tonight. 

I plan to make a tool that I can chuck up in my lathe or drill press which will cut a HP cavity in my subsonic blackout bullets. 

[unfy]

I actually found a link a while back on how to convert a mold with a drill press.  I'll try to look it up tonight. 

I plan to make a tool that I can chuck up in my lathe or drill press which will cut a HP cavity in my subsonic blackout bullets. 

CB forum seems to have hints / mentions / instructions / etc.

They use the removable plug on opposite end of the cavity... a concept i'm not keen on at all.

The molds that have pins along the sides of the block that push the hollow pointing studs away from the blocks would be about the only thing i'd have an interest in personally .  IE: you don't  keep inserting/removing a spindle/plug by hand.


edit:



Actually... that kind of thing i *might* be able to do.

last edit:

we do have a metal lathe and mill at work, but with how the employee of that area beats the **** out of the tools and doesn't clean ****... i'm not going anywhere near those tools.  i'd clean everything but he'd just **** it all up again.  the mill i *might* be able to get workable.. i dunno.  there's another drill press that's beefier and might be more true and deflect less.... i'll have to eyeball it all... but needless to say i'm not happy with the shop section at work due to 'that one guy' ...

[bkoenig]

Now that's an interesting way of doing it.  The DIY ones I have seen all had the removable pin.

[GreyGeek]

Am I right in assuming that the only place the powder really needs to be is where the bullet makes contact with the lands in the barrel?

[bkoenig]

Ok, now that I'm viewing this on a HD screen, that is one rusty, nasty looking mold.

Am I right in assuming that the only place the powder really needs to be is where the bullet makes contact with the lands in the barrel?

I would say both the lands and grooves, so anywhere it makes contact with the barrel.  Leaving the base uncoated might lead to a little vaporization and lead deposits, but from what I've read a lot of guys do just fine with it set that way.  I think the bearing surface is a much bigger contributor to leading.