Author Topic: The most atrocious gun handling ever (No this is not a trick/plea for donations) (Read 4383 times)

OnTheFly · « **on:** April 17, 2013, 08:52:23 PM »

I found this in jthhapkido's post about shooting sports (Homage to a Competition Shooter from a SOCOM operator.), but I didn't want to hijack his thread.

OMG!!!

This is freaking scary.

The sad thing is these people have gone to someone who is supposedly experienced and this "expert" taught them this ridiculous bull fodder.

Some video highlights
Have you ever seen four people get swept with a gun by four other people all at the same time? - 00:30

How about having someone draw behind you during a live fire exercise? - 00:50

Hey! I've got a great idea. You go downrange and shoot at those targets and we will stay back here and shoot around you. - 01:13

I am ninja. Fear me! - 01:29

Apparently "down range" is a relative term. - 01:32

Can you feel the muzzle blast on your shoulder? - 02:22

Fly

Gary · « **Reply #1 on:** April 17, 2013, 08:56:36 PM »

Great Music!

SS_N_NE · « **Reply #2 on:** April 17, 2013, 08:59:42 PM »

That is like one of those police motorcycle drills with bike weaving around each other....except they are using bullets in this instance.

unfy · « **Reply #3 on:** April 17, 2013, 09:00:26 PM »

I cringed before reading the comments and ...uhhh... no. no no no no.

RedDot · « **Reply #4 on:** April 17, 2013, 09:06:53 PM »

Introducing your newly funded Dept of Education Rapid Reaction Team

CliffD · « **Reply #5 on:** April 17, 2013, 09:16:03 PM »

WOW!!!

But, I will admit while I was watching the video, my daughter got up and started dancing all silly like to the music

(and no, I didn't let her watch the actual video lol)

Man, this is some pretty crazy stuff!

altheman2 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 17, 2013, 09:41:16 PM »

I cant even read the comments......scary stuff

tobydog · « **Reply #7 on:** April 17, 2013, 09:44:55 PM »

I loved Benny Hill! That music is rather appropriate for that, uh.. training?

JTH · « **Reply #8 on:** April 18, 2013, 12:59:19 PM »

Here's the scary part: Those people are the instructors and advanced students at that particular training facility.

They hold MANY classes, and completely RAKE IN the money.

People pay these folks to teach them to handle firearms.

I wish I was kidding, but I'm not.

From poor gun handling skills (obvious everywhere, but specifically noticable at :39 with the poor grip and the bad weaver stance), to completely unsafe situations (EVERYTHING!), poor muzzle control, poor tactical decisions, ridiculously slow trigger actions on close targets, and poor accuracy (look at where the dust is coming up when they are "rapid firing") --- there really isn't anything to applaud about these people. (Oh, let's not forget the really really bad movement skills. And the poor carbine skills.)

http://www.americandefenseenterprises.com/

"The Department of Homeland Security rated us the number one trainers in the world! World-class Firearms Instructors present the same advanced firearms courses that they teach to Seal's, Marines, and S.W.A.T teams."

That is a direct quote from their website, spelled/punctuated exactly like they had it.

I'm not kidding, that is how they advertise themselves. How many errors or outright lies can you find in just those two sentences? (Answer: too many.)

JTH · « **Reply #9 on:** April 18, 2013, 01:03:15 PM »

(If you want to have a laugh at how ridiculous they are, and then suddenly worry about the fact that people are taking their classes, look at the videos on their website.)

RedDot · « **Reply #10 on:** April 18, 2013, 06:23:48 PM »

Rated #1 by DHS... Somehow I can buy into the idea that Janet Napolitano has determined this to be the cutting edge of firearms instruction.

Gary · « **Reply #11 on:** April 18, 2013, 06:41:07 PM »

Anyone remember Joey Chitwood?

He traveled around the Midwest 40 years ago, doing stupid things with the family automobile. Was what he did safe, or was it a show? It was a show.

I do not know what the purpose of the gun video in this thread is for, but I am glad the local indoor range is a little more structured than that.

GreyGeek · « **Reply #12 on:** April 18, 2013, 06:53:30 PM »

Quote from: RedDot on April 17, 2013, 09:06:53 PM

Introducing your newly funded Dept of Education Rapid Reaction Team

My first impression was that they were training for Obama's 250,000 "Civilian Security Defense Force", or they were upgrading the training for TSA VIPR teams.

SS_N_NE · « **Reply #13 on:** April 18, 2013, 08:10:34 PM »

Quote from: GreyGeek on April 18, 2013, 06:53:30 PM

My first impression was that they were training for Obama's 250,000 "Civilian Security Defense Force"

That is a relief...that problem should take care of itself....

GreyGeek · « **Reply #14 on:** April 18, 2013, 08:15:54 PM »

Quote from: SS_N_NE on April 18, 2013, 08:10:34 PM

That is a relief...that problem should take care of itself...

ROF,LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

unfy · « **Reply #15 on:** April 18, 2013, 08:18:46 PM »

I tried to watch it again, only got to 0:54 before i had to stop (just after the intentional fall and guy behind opens fire).

Reminds me of the idiot game 'do you trust me' things that got a cadet killed. Stupid stupid stupid.

OnTheFly · « **Reply #16 on:** April 18, 2013, 08:35:25 PM »

From their American Warriors Test...

Quote

One-Day @ Burro CanyonThe "American Warriors Test" is the hardest, most comprehensive test of gun skills in the world today. The standard tests given by police, military or other shooting schools to supposedly grade gun skills have all the targets directly in front of the student. He may have to turn left or right to face the target, and the range and time varies, but that is all. The student stands upright and without any other movement engages the targets, which is only ?? percent of the time. This is extremely unrealistic.

The "American Warriors Test" requires 360° engagements, close contact, intermediate contact, close contact rear, standard engagement, moving engagements assaulting through and retreating from opponents. The moving engagements require hits and distance covered under time constraints. Targets range from 0 to 50 yards, and all areas tested have both single and multiple opponents. Virtually all other tests can be done on an individual in about one hour, allowing the student to stay at his peak performance. The "American Warriors Test" is approximately 7 hours of continuous shooting, spinning to engage targets and moving. A test this long does not show your peak performance but your average--what you can actually call up on demand.

There are 3 levels:

American Warrior...93%
American Operator...87%
American Defender...75%

Only 7 people have ever reached 93% and made the American Warrior level.

Only 8 people have ever reached 87% and made the American Operator level.

Maybe the problem is not them. Maybe we are all just jealous that we do not have the ninja skills to be in one of these groups.

Fly

Gary · « **Reply #17 on:** April 18, 2013, 10:45:22 PM »

For fun, someone post a similar video, where people are walking through a marksmanship range, where you think all is well.

Might be fun and educational to see good and bad, together, to compare them.

I shot on a big city swat team range a number of years back. Here in Nebraska. I was amazed as my instructor walked, and at times, ran through the targets. His time was amazing, and his score was almost as good as mine, with me walking through, taking my time on each target.

Post more videos, some ones, you think are a good example of something similar.

OnTheFly · « **Reply #18 on:** April 18, 2013, 11:03:57 PM »

Quote from: jthhapkido on April 18, 2013, 01:03:15 PM

(If you want to have a laugh at how ridiculous they are, and then suddenly worry about the fact that people are taking their classes, look at the videos on their website.)

I agree! That was my mixed reaction. I had to laugh and at the same time my stomach started to churn as I thought of all the people who trained with these yahoos. Someone is buying (literally) this crap. Hopefully they just keep all that "specialized" training at their range and don't jeopardize the lives of others.

I almost wish I had the time, money, and intestinal fortitude to go take a class with them. I would even pay to bring along jthhapkido and some other NFOA'ers so we could all be in awe of their absolutely screwed up ways.

It would be a learning experience, but not in the way they intend.

Fly

GreyGeek · « **Reply #19 on:** April 19, 2013, 10:19:53 AM »

Quote from: OnTheFly on April 18, 2013, 08:35:25 PM

Maybe the problem is not them. Maybe we are all just jealous that we do not have the ninja skills to be in one of these groups.

Or, we can't afford the ammo costs, class costs, or take the time necessary to train to that level.

Personally, I see it the way I looked at instrument flight training. To fly in IFR required a level of constant training that I didn't have the time or money for, and it would only be useful for less than 10% of my flying, IF I chose to fly through IFR conditions. Like I said before, I'd rather be sorry I didn't fly than sorry I did.

I know, I know. There is no way to know in advance when a need for a concealed weapon will arise, or what level of skill will be needed when that occasion arises. But, I have decided in advance what are the conditions under which I would draw my weapon and use it, and it reduces to the last possible option. Besides, even with my new 8 round mags I could be facing a guy with a 30 round mag. I suspect that in most cases the issue would be decided before I shot 16 rounds, and my Nano became a club.